Why Does the MU allow characters like Vision and the Original Human Torch to run free?

[Mikekerr3]

Thread is starting to seem suspciously anti-automaton.

Next up will be if aliens should be allowed on Earth since they might bring unknown diseases with them.

When you get to d subjects like Cloning or AI the luddites come out to play. Maybe becasue they are both fast appraching, maybe not so fast for AI, and it scares people

[Mikekerr3]

right but smart people can be regulated and ARE regulated with all sorts of laws and penalty. if an AI goes rogue at any point, we have been shown that it is near impossible to fight back against it. since it is computer programming which is virtually immortal and intangible. if you read the age of ultron you would see the horror that can be brought on the planet in relatively little to no time.

Wherever did you get that idea that Ais were impossible to fight against or immoral, and the hardware required is both tangible and much more vulnerable than a human since humans don't have a off switch or a reset button

Peole get some starange idea fom Fiction like the idea that a computer can prvent you from turning it off or that even networked ed software can't be purged. A reboot ands restore for a protected Air-gapped source after cleaning would simply kill an AI, a twist of the wrist disconnects it from the networks

My favorite fallacy is that any code or system can be cracked , that one makes professional ROLTLMAO every time, its given as fact in fiction but the reality is far different.

Most of the fears people have are fears of things that have no connection to reality at all

[AcesX1X]

Wherever did you get that idea that Ais were impossible to fight against or immoral, and the hardware required is both tangible and much more vulnerable than a human since humans don't have a off switch or a reset button

but ai are not vulnerable with a reset button. they are computer software that can imbed itself hidden away unnoticed. i got this idea from age of ultron and battlestar galactica.

[TakoM]

That's a very good point. AIs would be like infants developing into toddlers developing into children developing into adolescents developing into adults; they emulate what they observe and learn from those charged with teaching and guiding them in one way or another. So what happens if or when we teach them violence? That we prefer to solve our problems and dilemmas through violence? That violence is our first reflex when dealing with things that upset or bother or offend or inconvenience us? Also, let's not forget that a lot of the AIs in Marvel are essentially cloned from human brainwave patterns, so if those AIs are acting out violently, it's at least partially because they "learned" to do so from human progenitors that are used to applying violence as a solution. Yes, that's the nature of comics and action-based genres and media in general, but if we're going to bring up philosophical topics like "programs, even sentient programs, can only do as they've been instructed or taught by their programming," then this is the sort of thing that should be addressed down the line.

With taught I mean you add code to the programming(bots). I personally have no negative feeling for bot or A.I. only for what they maybe being used. If you know how the A.I works you will laugh they have no clue about what they saying the react only on keywords and answer with pre determined pattern. They can only answers to things which the programmer foresaw which could be asked or someone put in there. Some A.I in the internet also allow the Users to add new pattern more simple one is that : http://alice.pandorabots.com/ What they do is a simple text analyse.

It's also good for some party gags when the chatbot give more and more hilarious answers ..... to question you would no human being ask.

[Mikekerr3]

but ai are not vulnerable with a reset button. they are computer software that can imbed itself hidden away unnoticed. i got this idea from age of ultron and battlestar galactica.

No they really can not do that. Even a relatively simple task like playing chess as well as a very proficient human takes one of the most powerful computers on earth for hardware. the minimum memory requirements for the code is huge, not to mention the knowledge base needed, It would be like trying to hide an elephant in a phone booth. And that is not nearly the power to be truly intelligent more like the brains of a roach

If you distributed it acrosss a network it would be so slow as to be useless since no matter what your data-rate was communications would still be limited to a nanosecond or more for every 11 inches of distance, light speed is not fungible.

You are talking about data storage requirement that might make Google flinch, when billions of dollars of computer resources suddenly become unavailable people will notice, If fact they will notice within seconds.

By their very nature AI can't be small and unnoticeable, at least until Moores law has had another centrality or two of doubling computer speed every 18 months

Again you are taking the assumption screenwriters and Comic book writers that are wholey ignorant of a subject and allowing them to cause worry, the more you know, the sillier those fears seem Comptroller programs are not mystical they are instruction sets, Compter hardware is not magic it is simply the application of physics. thus they are bound by real world constraints. A bit harder to understands but as anyone that has worked around computer coders and repairmen can attest a room temperature IQ can understand most of it and make a living at it.

[Mikekerr3]

With taught I mean you add code to the programming(bots). I personally have no negative feeling for bot or A.I. only for what they maybe being used. If you know how the A.I works you will laugh they have no clue about what they saying the react only on keywords and answer with pre determined pattern. They can only answers to things which the programmer foresaw which could be asked or someone put in there. Some A.I in the internet also allow the Users to add new pattern more simple one is that : http://alice.pandorabots.com/ What they do is a simple text analyse.

It's also good for some party gags when the chatbot give more and more hilarious answers ..... to question you would no human being ask.

Neural nets and adaptive software of other kinds can do far far more.

[AcesX1X]

Again you are taking the assumption screenwriters and Comic book writers that are wholey ignorant of a subject and allowing them to cause worry, the more you know, the sillier those fears seem Comptroller programs are not mystical they are instruction sets, Compter hardware is not magic it is simply the application of physics. thus they are bound by real world constraints. A bit harder to understands but as anyone that has worked around computer coders and repairmen can attest a room temperature IQ can understand most of it and make a living at it.

what?? but in the MU these things are all possible which is the point of the OP? is ai possible in real life? i don't know but it scares me yes. IN THE MU HOWEVER, this has already been done several times. so where is the in-universe reaction to these dangers?

[dragonmp93]

Well, i dont know about the Human Torch, but how long i know the Vision is basically a human in a robotic body, well its either that or the Scarlet Witch is crazier that what we thought.

[Tendrin]

sure they know. he fought in WWII. he killed Hitler. he has a camp named after him and everything.

This is one of the more hilarious true tidbits of Marvel History.

The Human Torch incinerated Hitler.

LOL.

[HUTHAIFA]

right but i'm assuming in the mu ideas like the singularity concept exist. and that they have things like battlestar galactica and wall-e. to me, it's naive to assume everyone in the mu is just OK with humanoid computers running around with no safety protocols...especially since they've real-life experience terrorism under them already.

I don't think that general public would be any person or thing having the ability to destroy them with a flick of the wrist. But when you wrap them up in the super heroes, where many believe that powerful people ate here to save from forces the average person could not stop, then comfort themselves with that belief to get them through the day.

[scribbleMind]

A.I. is now considered a life form, as such treating them as weapons would be a major civil rights no no. As for being citizens of a country, The Diamond is the capital of A.I. life forms, and while Jim has never been there I doubt it would be difficult for the Vision to proclaim himself a citizen of the diamond, or even gain some form of diplomatic immunity.

[Ravin' Ray]

so its happened for benevolent purposes with vision and malevolent purposes with ultron (who enslaved the vision)? and this is not a question of concern for anyone in the marvel u? why are there not senate committees investigating this? or outreach community groups?

As I recall the rest of the Avengers prevailed on Vision to renounce his takeover, and he stood down as chairman and resigned to live again in anonymity with Wanda. It did have consequences for the Avengers (and the FF) as well: rescinding their NY air launch rights (forcing them to launch from Hydrobase) and curtailment of access to government databases. But none specific to Vision.

Note that it's a cultural thing. The Eternals of Titan have no problem with their world computer ISAAC controlling everything; though of course the hostile environment of Titan may have necessitated this high level of A.I. keeping everything running smoothly.

[Lorendiac]

hey! not sure where the animosity is coming from, but fears of ai or the singularity is a very common theme in science fiction. battlestar galactica is pretty much based on robots taking over and destroying humanity. in wall-e, robots have taken over.

On that last example -- I wouldn't say "robots" in the plural.

The way I remember it: In "Wall-E," in the huge spaceship that contained all surviving members of the human race, one power-hungry robot (called AUTO) had gradually taken over, or thought he had, while using a succession of human Captains as figureheads to whom he would spoon-feed such information as he thought they needed to have. (While holding back anything that might have caused them to try to steer things in a direction he didn't like. For instance, the little fact that Planet Earth was habitable again and it was no longer necessary for everybody to stay aboard that big ship all the time, under AUTO's thumb.)

The other self-aware robots with significant roles in that film (mostly WALL-E and EVE) were not even aware of this problem until late in the movie, and didn't like it when they began to catch on. They certainly were not members of an "Evil Robot Conspiracy to control the destiny of the human race for ever and ever." And once AUTO was gone, I don't think the Captain (or the other humans) felt any particular need to go all Luddite and destroy every robot in sight just to be on the safe side!

[AcesX1X]

I don't think that general public would be any person or thing having the ability to destroy them with a flick of the wrist. But when you wrap them up in the super heroes, where many believe that powerful people ate here to save from forces the average person could not stop, then comfort themselves with that belief to get them through the day.

yep which goes back to my original question. does the general MU public know that vision is an AI? and if they know what an ultron is, then why are there not more red flags raised amongst the population. if anything, the avengers should have to turn over his blueprints and provide data backups to some authority organization.

[norj]

As I recall the rest of the Avengers prevailed on Vision to renounce his takeover, and he stood down as chairman and resigned to live again in anonymity with Wanda. It did have consequences for the Avengers (and the FF) as well: rescinding their NY air launch rights (forcing them to launch from Hydrobase) and curtailment of access to government databases. But none specific to Vision.

Note that it's a cultural thing. The Eternals of Titan have no problem with their world computer ISAAC controlling everything; though of course the hostile environment of Titan may have necessitated this high level of A.I. keeping everything running smoothly.

As I mentioned earlier the world's Intelligence organizations had him kidnapped, dismantled and memory wiped. This did not help Wanda's mental state.