What if the Ruby Spears Superman show lasted longer?

[The Overlord]

I don't know if anyone remembers the Ruby Spears Superman, it was one of two DC cartoon between Super Friends and Batman the Animated Series, released in 1988. Here is a review of it:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uzR4CE...c3VwZXJtYW4%3D



It's an interesting, it's like a combo of Post Crisis Superman, the Silver Age and the Reeves movies. It's the first animated appear of corporate Lex Luthor, but his personality seems to be based on the Gene Hackman Lex and the plots are out there.


It's not as edgy as the DCAU, but not as toothless as the Super Friends, villains can attempt to kill people in this show.


It only lasted one season, but what if lasted longer? Do you think it would have been successful if it was given another season? Would have been more remembered? Would have been swept away when Batman the Animated Series was first released? It came out 4 years before Batman the Animated Series.

[exile001]

I've always meant to revisit this.

I saw some of them at the time but they made little impact, except that I remember thinking the animation looked stilted and cheap. That said, I didn't like Superman until the Dean Cain show turned me around on it (of all things!).

Maybe this is a hidden gem?

[Kuwagaton]

Despite some Wolfman involvement it needed quite a lot to become a decently strong show capable of hanging with something like Ninja Turtles. It's so weird how behind superhero cartoons were until 1992 because the source materials provided more than enough

[DochaDocha]

I like the R-S Supes cartoon and bought the DVD, but even if it ran longer, it would've been forgotten in time nearly to the same degree it is now. It's several steps below BTAS or even Fox Kids X-Men in storytelling in that it might be good for kids, but it's still a bit on the juvenile/basic side there's not a whole lot to pull in older views to revisit it.

On the plus side, the Superman (and WW, for that matter) character models were so on point and haven't really been surpassed in 35 years, IMO. The show's animation is of its age, but just the basic designs were so good.

Strange quirk: I swear they inverted the credits for BJ Ward and Mary MacDonald-Lewis. WW sounds like Scarlett from GI Joe (Ward) and the witch Cyrene sounds like Lady Jaye (MacDonald-Lewis), but the credits indicate otherwise. Always bothered me that the credits appear to be so wrong...

[Vordan]

BTAS was just on an entirely different level in terms of animation quality and storytelling. Unless this got a BTAS -> TNAOBAR tier revamp going into the next season, there’s just no way this could compete.

[kingaliencracker]

I've always suspected that this show was one of the driving forces in John Byrne leaving the titles as abruptly and disgruntled as he did, especially since Marv Wolfman was involved in the show.

In any event, it was solid but not great. I don't really remember anything special about it. TAS 8 years later was superior, in my opinion.

[superduperman]

(ears perk up)

I should say this is my favorite version of Superman so I'm not exactly coming into it unbiased. That having been said, I have no illusions about it's place in cartoon history. I would consider it a "transition" show between SF and BTAS. Would it be remembered better if it has lasted longer? Hard to say. The Superboy show lasted four years and most people don't know it ever existed. It's a product of it's time. The eighties. It looks and sounds like a 1980s Saturday morning cartoon. It has some good stories. Like the two aliens and Superman has figure out which one was the bad guy. But there's nothing in it that particularly stands out. In terms of Byrne, as I understand it, he had left the books by the time this came out. So I doubt that that played a role. But Byrne being Byrne who knows. Would love to have seen more heroes make guest appearances. Like Batman. A second season would have gone into 1989-90, just after the movie came out, so he would have been perfect.

[kingaliencracker]

(ears perk up)

I should say this is my favorite version of Superman so I'm not exactly coming into it unbiased. That having been said, I have no illusions about it's place in cartoon history. I would consider it a "transition" show between SF and BTAS. Would it be remembered better if it has lasted longer? Hard to say. The Superboy show lasted four years and most people don't know it ever existed. It's a product of it's time. The eighties. It looks and sounds like a 1980s Saturday morning cartoon. It has some good stories. Like the two aliens and Superman has figure out which one was the bad guy. But there's nothing in it that particularly stands out. In terms of Byrne, as I understand it, he had left the books by the time this came out. So I doubt that that played a role. But Byrne being Byrne who knows. Would love to have seen more heroes make guest appearances. Like Batman. A second season would have gone into 1989-90, just after the movie came out, so he would have been perfect.

Byrne's last story came out the same time this show debuted. One of the contributing factors in his leaving was that he felt there wasn't a conscious effort by DC to support his version of the character. Again, I don't think the show was the only reason. But I'm sure it irked him that the show was coming out, Wolfman was involved, and the only part of the reboot that carried over was businessman Lex (which, coincidentally, Wolfman gets royalties for).

[superduperman]

Aside from the Family Album segments, the show followed the comics at the time fairly well. For a children's cartoon anyway. And the segments were the idea of the head of the children's department at CBS. Which means they weren't even DC's idea. The Kents were still alive (albeit old when they found him) when he became Superman. If the show hadn't even come out yet, I don't know how he would know whether or not it followed his vision. The character models were probably the most on point of any animated version. Especially Wonder Woman.

[kingaliencracker]

Aside from the Family Album segments, the show followed the comics at the time fairly well. For a children's cartoon anyway. And the segments were the idea of the head of the children's department at CBS. Which means they weren't even DC's idea. The Kents were still alive (albeit old when they found him) when he became Superman. If the show hadn't even come out yet, I don't know how he would know whether or not it followed his vision. The character models were probably the most on point of any animated version. Especially Wonder Woman.

I disagree that it followed the comics. There were other Kryptonians. None of Byrne's villains were used. Superman had powers as a baby and an indestructible cape.

The only thing that transferred over was Lex as a businessman, which again Businessman Lex was credited to Wolfman according to Byrne and he got all the royalties for it.

This isn't something I can prove, mind you. But lots of coincidence going on for my taste.

[Kuwagaton]

Lol I think Byrne would have flipped. But it's a shame that his departure couldn't get them to realize what X-Men and Batman realized: breaking out of the 80s cartoon mold and into more sophisticated storytelling in line with comics. Can you imagine one channel with crummy reruns of Spider-Man vs Video Man for superheroes, and then you turn and see Superman vs King Kosmos?

[kingaliencracker]

I will say that given there weren't any alternatives in terms of super hero animation at the time, I'm surprised the series wasn't more popular especially given that comic books were probably as popular in the late '80's as they've ever been.

Then again, they couldn't get Pryde of the X-Men to air beyond the pilot, and X-Men was hugely popular at the time.

[Jim Kelly]

I saw some of them at the time but they made little impact, except that I remember thinking the animation looked stilted and cheap.

I wonder, what were you comparing them to? Every Saturday morning cartoon was made to be cheap--which meant the animation used less cells and repeated the same cells. The only cartoons that didn't look stilted were the ones taken from theatrical releases (such as the old Looney Tunes). To do cartoons on a theatrical level would have required a big investment of money and a much bigger group of artists working as slave labour to pump out all the cells they'd need. Even more modern shows like THE SIMPSONS, FAMILY GUY and SOUTH PARK look stilted and cheap--and they have much bigger budgets.

I can remember even as a little kid in the 1960s thinking that the cartoons looked cheap. But I was bugged more by the drawing style than the fluidity of the animation on shows like ATOM ANT and BATFINK.

[exile001]

I wonder, what were you comparing them to?

That's a fair question. I don't know exactly when it would have aired here (UK).

Quite likely I'd have still been watching The Real Ghostbusters, as that was a favourite in the 80's, and maybe TMNT if it aired alongside that? Constant repeats of the likes of Scooby Doo and Flintstones. I was a big animation fan as a kid, and had a younger sister, so a lot of Disney. Pretty much whatever I could get my eyes on (though I somehow managed to completely miss a bunch of the big ones like Transformers).

Checking out a quick Youtube of the opening credits, I'd certainly have thought the style looked dated even back then.

But then again, imagination and childhood enthusiasm helped cartoons I loved look better in my mind (I've gone back to some and they're dire) and I really didn't like Supes at all as a kid. I might have just caught one or two and not bothered again.

[Kuwagaton]

I will say that given there weren't any alternatives in terms of super hero animation at the time, I'm surprised the series wasn't more popular especially given that comic books were probably as popular in the late '80's as they've ever been.

Then again, they couldn't get Pryde of the X-Men to air beyond the pilot, and X-Men was hugely popular at the time.

That's what I mean. We saw the later cartoons lean into comic popularity and immediately reap the benefits. Sure, those are more popular properties but this was before them and Pryde had the X-Men pay when it made the same mistake in direction right after.

But then, I think Pryde was smart enough to outsource more of the animation.