Amazing Spider-Man #35 Preview

[Moxxi517]

Again, what should he do? Ok they get letters about OMD? He’s the one receiving them so he would know if it’s a large majority or not. If it’s not a large majority and sales are strong why should he change course?

And re Kamala his response was pretty much what I had been saying this whole time about being part of a larger plan, so I kinda feel like no matter what people would’ve taken issue with what he had to say about it short of apologizing for putting her in their biggest selling title.

In terms of the Kamala stuff. Honestly, an apology in the letters pages for not considering the perspective of groups they are distinctly not a part of would have been nice. But also I feel like this response, takes too much of the responsibility away from the ASM team for Kamala dying. Like Kamala needed to be a mutant, ok, that's fine. They shoved her into ASM to do that, that is pretty clear. But nothing about those circumstances imply that she needed to be fridged, and if you are going to fridge her maybe allow her to play a stronger role in story. Or I don't know, if you are going to fridge her, don't market the story based on shock value and revel openly in interviews for months leading up to the death about how this is a cool gwen stacy tie-in thing.

Some people might ask, why do you say Kamala didn't need to be fridged? Well there are actually a million reasons. But the simplest is that according to the lore we have, Kamala was a mutant the whole time. Nothing about her resurrection made her a mutant, that part of her was just dormant b/c of her inhuman genes or something. So when you have a massive mutant event like the fall of x where every single mutant on the planet is mind touched by professor x or whatever (i dont really follow x-men) maybe just maybe that was a very reasonable moment to bring up the whole mutant thing. Or heck just have someone tell her, we get flashbacks of x-men trying to figure out how to tell her, so they could just tell her.

Dont mean to harp on this for too long but the point here is that there will a million ways to go about this but the ASM team chose the one that didn't make her a character. They marketed the issue based on shock value and then a bunch of racists reveled in that shock value. In particular because the moment itself does an awful job of selling us on Kamala's heroism. It's just so gross all around, and it still annoys me.

[marvelprince]

I think you're misreading some of the stuff from earlier in the book in order to make it make more sense. The words Peter used were and I quote: "The more I work with you. The more I recognize something familiar. The Norman Osborn I first met. The one who treated me like a son. I'm beginning to think that that might be the real you."

I feel like Frontier is correct in describing those words as implying that Zeb considered that Peter and Norman's relationship early on in their history had some kind of father-son like dynamic. This was really frustrating at the time because so much of the Peter Norman stuff was building to that moment in particular and they botched the delivery with a misunderstanding of the early history.

I think you guys are missing my point entirely. I was not talking about how Wells views their previous relationship,or how MJ should view it or if this is how their dynamic was historically. All I said was I like this current take on their relationship and here it’s shown as more of a father figure. Me making the contrast there should’ve been a clue that I know that’s not how it’s always been but I didn’t want to elaborate and derail and feel the need to explain WHY I like something.

[marvelprince]

In terms of the Kamala stuff. Honestly, an apology in the letters pages for not considering the perspective of groups they are distinctly not a part of would have been nice. But also I feel like this response, takes too much of the responsibility away from the ASM team for Kamala dying. Like Kamala needed to be a mutant, ok, that's fine. They shoved her into ASM to do that, that is pretty clear. But nothing about those circumstances imply that she needed to be fridged, and if you are going to fridge her maybe allow her to play a stronger role in story. Or I don't know, if you are going to fridge her, don't market the story based on shock value and revel openly in interviews for months leading up to the death about how this is a cool gwen stacy tie-in thing.

Some people might ask, why do you say Kamala didn't need to be fridged? Well there are actually a million reasons. But the simplest is that according to the lore we have, Kamala was a mutant the whole time. Nothing about her resurrection made her a mutant, that part of her was just dormant b/c of her inhuman genes or something. So when you have a massive mutant event like the fall of x where every single mutant on the planet is mind touched by professor x or whatever (i dont really follow x-men) maybe just maybe that was a very reasonable moment to bring up the whole mutant thing. Or heck just have someone tell her, we get flashbacks of x-men trying to figure out how to tell her, so they could just tell her.

Dont mean to harp on this for too long but the point here is that there will a million ways to go about this but the ASM team chose the one that didn't make her a character. They marketed the issue based on shock value and then a bunch of racists reveled in that shock value. In particular because the moment itself does an awful job of selling us on Kamala's heroism. It's just so gross all around, and it still annoys me.

I understand your perspective, I just have a different one that I guess I more in line with editorial. You say fridged I say they gave her a big platform. You didn’t think she came across as a hero, I feel the opposite. Agree to disagree.

[marvelprince]

I wouldn't say anything about the sales in this industry are "strong."

Confessing that they don't get a lot of letters at all was quite the statement as well.

Doesn’t answer my question of what should be done. Sure industry sales aren’t strong, let’s assume that’s true. Spider-Man is still the biggest selling title at Marvel so understanding that what would you do ? Cause clearly the direction is not hurting the title as much as people would want to believe otherwise.

I also don’t get the hang ups with the letters thing. Letters have been dying across the board. It’s not just Spider-Man isn’t getting letters. As a society we just don’t communicate in that way like we did back in the day.

[Moxxi517]

I think you guys are missing my point entirely. I was not talking about how Wells views their previous relationship,or how MJ should view it or if this is how their dynamic was historically. All I said was I like this current take on their relationship and here it’s shown as more of a father figure. Me making the contrast there should’ve been a clue that I know that’s not how it’s always been but I didn’t want to elaborate and derail and feel the need to explain WHY I like something.

I think I misread what you were saying about Wells, so I apologize for that. The current stuff being disconnected from their previous relationships is something that really keeps me from investing in that current stuff, so I think that might be how I misread it. But I should have read your words more thoroughly, and that feeling I have doesn't have to be ubiquitous and I respect that. Totally fine to just agree to disagree.

[Frontier]

I understand your perspective, I just have a different one that I guess I more in line with editorial. You say fridged I say they gave her a big platform. You didn’t think she came across as a hero, I feel the opposite. Agree to disagree.

I think it's fair to say that objectively it wasn't executed very well in the titles of ASM. Whether shifting her to the X-Side pays off remains to be seen, but I also think it can be said she wasn't handled well in ASM leading up to her death.

[Kevinroc]

Doesn’t answer my question of what should be done. Sure industry sales aren’t strong, let’s assume that’s true. Spider-Man is still the biggest selling title at Marvel so understanding that what would you do ? Cause clearly the direction is not hurting the title as much as people would want to believe otherwise.

I also don’t get the hang ups with the letters thing. Letters have been dying across the board. It’s not just Spider-Man isn’t getting letters. As a society we just don’t communicate in that way like we did back in the day.

So should all criticism be brushed aside as Marvel is clearly doing because sales are "strong" relative to the rest of the industry? Should ASM not be held to a higher standard as Marvel's flagship title? Is this the best they can do and fans should just passively accept it?

[Dthirds3]

Can Norman be the protagonist now. He's clearly better written and more likable then Pete

[adamishere1]

So glad I've dropped this series - this isn't Spider-Man for me or Peter Parker its some parody.

1 question, did Norman just get all of his sins back, meaning he's likely to go cra-cra and start wearing Green again?

[Moxxi517]

So glad I've dropped this series - this isn't Spider-Man for me or Peter Parker its some parody.

1 question, did Norman just get all of his sins back, meaning he's likely to go cra-cra and start wearing Green again?

spoilers:

Yeah he got the sins back but it's a slow burn thing. So we still have time for more PeterxNorman shipping and so we can play into the tragedy of it.

end of spoilers

[xpyred]

I miss pre Gathering of Five Norman. Yeah he was a scheming even bastard, but the Gathering of Five gave him madness and he’s been piss poor written since. The Revenge of the Green Goblin of 2000 was pretty good. But then Bendis had Norman murder random people in The Pulse and since then it’s just maniac Goblin. It’s boring.

[marvelprince]

So should all criticism be brushed aside as Marvel is clearly doing because sales are "strong" relative to the rest of the industry? Should ASM not be held to a higher standard as Marvel's flagship title? Is this the best they can do and fans should just passively accept it?

Can't help but notice once again you haven't answered my question.

But to answer your question, if the criticism is a small audience and the sales haven't been impacted then I don't think you should shift your publishing strategy to accommodate a few people still hanging onto a decades old story. Its a business at the end of the day and people voting with their wallets is what i would pay attention. Maybe I would communicate with them differently to let them know I get their criticisms and we're focused on telling the best stories we can so I don't come across as dismissive but I wouldn't upend my business for a little criticism. Its like over at the DCU, Synder has a very vocal but minor fanbase that's not going to be happy with anyone but him making movies. They're doing a reboot that some fans are pissed over, but that's not stopping them from doing what they feel is best for the characters/company. Time will tell in that instance if it works, as it stands from a sales perspective what Lowe's office is doing is working. Again, you're never going to have a situation where every fan is happy.

I'm also reminded of Tom King's Batman run that got a ton of criticism for its direction, but while the book was still number 1 DC went along with King's plan. Once the sales started to drop they stepped in and truncated his run.

[marvelprince]

I think it's fair to say that objectively it wasn't executed very well in the titles of ASM. Whether shifting her to the X-Side pays off remains to be seen, but I also think it can be said she wasn't handled well in ASM leading up to her death.

Only bit of the execution I had an issue with is that I would've loved to see her feature more leading up to her death cause I honestly forgot she was in the book at the time, but I had no issues with her characterization or depiction when she was used. And I think she came off incredibly heroic in her death issue.

[Dthirds3]

Also gang War starts because hammer head goes to evry crime family and says " you should fight the other criminals because trust me bro"

[Kevinroc]

Can't help but notice once again you haven't answered my question.

But to answer your question, if the criticism is a small audience and the sales haven't been impacted then I don't think you should shift your publishing strategy to accommodate a few people still hanging onto a decades old story. Its a business at the end of the day and people voting with their wallets is what i would pay attention. Maybe I would communicate with them differently to let them know I get their criticisms and we're focused on telling the best stories we can so I don't come across as dismissive but I wouldn't upend my business for a little criticism. Its like over at the DCU, Synder has a very vocal but minor fanbase that's not going to be happy with anyone but him making movies. They're doing a reboot that some fans are pissed over, but that's not stopping them from doing what they feel is best for the characters/company. Time will tell in that instance if it works, as it stands from a sales perspective what Lowe's office is doing is working. Again, you're never going to have a situation where every fan is happy.

I'm also reminded of Tom King's Batman run that got a ton of criticism for its direction, but while the book was still number 1 DC went along with King's plan. Once the sales started to drop they stepped in and truncated his run.

And the rare variant covers that Marvel is attaching to ASM? Do you think that doesn't play a role in ASM's orders?