Amazing Spider-Man #35 Preview

[Chubistian]

Fun straightforward story. I'd have liked that in the last couple of pages, we didn't see the Green Goblin's reflection, instead, just the "heh". More subtle and impactful

[marvelprince]

The signature of Wells run. Felicia and Peter's relationship, everything about it exists off panel because they said they had one

Norman and Peter's father son relationship exists because they said it does, even though it's not shown on panel.

MJ and Paul and their relationship, exists because they say not because the story is crafted in a way that shows it.

Kamala and Peter's friendship, we're told it's a thing but never shown.

Etc, etc, etc.

It’s cool to hate Wells but literally all of these are referenced and shown during this run. You might not like the framing and the previous history might not make sense to you for whatever reason but we were shown Peter and Felicia’s relationship, even before they officially got together in the Beyond arc, you have to be blind to not see the father / son relationship currently with Peter and Norman, MJ and Paul were trapped for together for how long surviving alone and people still don’t understand how they could’ve formed a relationship? Ok. Pete and Kamala were already friends so not getting the complaint there.

This is just like the gang war came out of nowhere complaints. It’s literally been in the background since the start of this arc. Or Peter has just been beaten up this whole arc and hasn’t won a fight. I wonder if we’re all reading the same book.

[ImOctavius]

The signature of Wells run. Felicia and Peter's relationship, everything about it exists off panel because they said they had one

Norman and Peter's father son relationship exists because they said it does, even though it's not shown on panel.

MJ and Paul and their relationship, exists because they say not because the story is crafted in a way that shows it.

Kamala and Peter's friendship, we're told it's a thing but never shown.

Etc, etc, etc.

I totally agree, but better not show MJ and Paul relationship. The less we get, the better.

[Kurus]

It’s cool to hate Wells but literally all of these are referenced and shown during this run. You might not like the framing and the previous history might not make sense to you for whatever reason but we were shown Peter and Felicia’s relationship, even before they officially got together in the Beyond arc, you have to be blind to not see the father / son relationship currently with Peter and Norman, MJ and Paul were trapped for together for how long surviving alone and people still don’t understand how they could’ve formed a relationship? Ok. Pete and Kamala were already friends so not getting the complaint there.

This is just like the gang war came out of nowhere complaints. It’s literally been in the background since the start of this arc. Or Peter has just been beaten up this whole arc and hasn’t won a fight. I wonder if we’re all reading the same book.

One or two scenes do not adequately build up any of these relationships. MJ and Paul basically just get a montage, which doesn’t sell the relationship due to Paul’s lack of personality. Peter and Felicia get one two partner that established their relationship, a backup story, 4 pages in 27 and then they break up. That’s just not enough to make it feel worthwhile. And Peter and Norman relationship makes no goddamn sense due to all the bullshit Norman has done. The man killed Gwen, faked aunt mays death, had aunt may buried alive and killed Peter unborn child. And I’m supposed to believe that helpings Peter get mj out is enough for Peter to be buddy buddy with the man?

[ImOctavius]

One or two scenes do not adequately build up any of these relationships. MJ and Paul basically just get a montage, which doesn’t sell the relationship due to Paul’s lack of personality. Peter and Felicia get one two partner that established their relationship, a backup story, 4 pages in 27 and then they break up. That’s just not enough to make it feel worthwhile.

MJ got more time with Felicia than Peter...

[Moxxi517]

One or two scenes do not adequately build up any of these relationships. MJ and Paul basically just get a montage, which doesn’t sell the relationship due to Paul’s lack of personality. Peter and Felicia get one two partner that established their relationship, a backup story, 4 pages in 27 and then they break up. That’s just not enough to make it feel worthwhile. And Peter and Norman relationship makes no goddamn sense due to all the bullshit Norman has done. The man killed Gwen, faked aunt mays death, had aunt may buried alive and killed Peter unborn child. And I’m supposed to believe that helpings Peter get mj out is enough for Peter to be buddy buddy with the man?

And with the Kamala stuff. This is what marvel put out a few months to describe their relationship: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...orked-together

So they honestly don't have a huge history together. (they dont even remember the marvel team up story) And a lot of the stories they do have together are just team-ups, not them focused. And particularly Pete and Kamala (their secret identities) don't have a great friendship. Especially if you are just reading ASM. Like people said at the time of 26, Miles and Kamala are great friends with a bunch of stories expanding on that relationship. Not Pete and Kamala. I'm not a huge Ms. Marvel nerd, but my understanding is that she actually has a bunch of adult mentors, and none of them are Peter. Like Cyclops, Wolverine, Iron Man, Captain Marvel (obviously). Peter probably doesn't make the top 5 in terms of superhero mentors let alone friends to Ms. Marvel. The story could have definitely been served by fleshing out this relationship, especially in the context of everything else.

Like I'll say that the Norman stuff is definitely fleshed out, like it's the only thing that Zeb is actively trying to make work. But a lot of this comes down to opportunity cost in my mind. Basically everything about the run is sacrificed in order to drive forward this PeterNorman relationship. And so much of everything else sucks because all the emphasis is put here imo. (Whatever the plan was with MJ, it sure didnt make it to the page. Why PeterFelicia doesn't work is basically given 2 pages in a break up scene. Even all the spider-man doesn't win fights complaints basically stem from the fact that Zeb wants to show PeterNorman working together to beat crime a bunch) So it's frustrating that this entire arc feels so disconnected from history. It makes it all feel so pointless.

[Coop]

It’s cool to hate Wells but literally all of these are referenced and shown during this run. You might not like the framing and the previous history might not make sense to you for whatever reason but we were shown Peter and Felicia’s relationship, even before they officially got together in the Beyond arc, you have to be blind to not see the father / son relationship currently with Peter and Norman, MJ and Paul were trapped for together for how long surviving alone and people still don’t understand how they could’ve formed a relationship? Ok. Pete and Kamala were already friends so not getting the complaint there.

This is just like the gang war came out of nowhere complaints. It’s literally been in the background since the start of this arc. Or Peter has just been beaten up this whole arc and hasn’t won a fight. I wonder if we’re all reading the same book.

"It's cool to hate Wells" is not a necessary component of a discussion about this comic, you don't need to attempt discredit or frame my dislike of the book as "just hating on Wells cause it's trendy" rather than an actual valid opinion held by an actual living person who read the book and didn't see it the same way you did. I don't mind discussing our disagreements, but I'm not gonna attempt to paint some less then ideal picture of you because you like and enjoy it and I'd appreciate if you extended that same courtesy towards me going forward. I came into Beyond optimistic and hopeful of Wells. I thought he had a chance to do a good job based on some of his previous (not Shed) stuff. But reading this run has turned my opinion of him completely 180. And no one is more disappointed than me about that. It sucks when a character you enjoy is in a rut of a run. I would love to put every issue down and be like "slam dunk, home run, where's my Paul action figure".

But I don't.

I'm extremely critical of the book, like many here, but I'm not critical of anyone enjoying it.

And alll you said about the Paul and MJ relationship was "They have been there for four years" which is a part of my criticism. The development of their relationship was not shown on panel. That's what I am criticizing. Issue 26 is a mostly wordless montage of vague scenes that allude to a romance. Maybe you feel "it was 4 years stuff happened" is satisfactory storytelling, I dont. After that, their relationship in the present has not been explored. It's been discussed countless times that there isn't any on panel displays of affection between them. There's been no banter or interactions that show why MJ fell for Paul and why she continues to stay with him. It's simply "well they were the only two people there for four years, of course they shacked up" which imo is extremely shallow and lazy storytelling and a disservice to the character of Mary Jane.

Felicia has been barely present in this run. Her biggest amount of panel time was on a fill in arc written by someone else. Nothing of the stuff Wells talked about of "Peter having to chase her" or any picture of what their existing relationship was like or why it fell apart was shown on panel. It's explaines after the fact but never explored. To me, that's bad storytelling.

Despite your protestations, I don't use a Jaws reader to read the comic or this site. Read with two functional eyes. I don't at all agree that what we have seen of Norman and Peter is enough to make it reasonable for Peter to call him a father figure. A potential mentor, a generous boss, maybe. But a father? The Green Goblin? I don't think so. They didn't earn that moment.

As for Kamala. She was in like 6 panels of this comic before her death. She has so few on panel interactions with anyone in the comic that people forgot she was supposedly a supporting cast member until she popped up to use a forgotten power and die. And that's made worse later when Norman tells his ridiculous coffee story. For me, good writing would have been to show that scene in a prior issue and have Norman reference it. Rather than just add in some interaction they had off panel.

The gang war bit, I think people are criticizing the solicitation "This sets up the next 24 issues of Spider-Man" and at face value, it looks like one scene that is completely separated from the rest of the arc was inserted and that's apparently how (Marvel's words) "This sets up the next 24 issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN." I'll grant that Norman being resinned will probably contribute to that but I think it's totally fair to roll your eyes at hyping that up when it's been a forgone conclusion since the Sins were extracted from him that he would get them back. And saying this issue sets up gang war and executed that by having a scene where some gangs fight and talk about a war is imo not well executed. If the chaos caused by Incel Pete was capitalized on or used by the various gangs to further destabilize the precarious peace of the city's criminal elements I don't think anyone would be imo, rightfully dunking on the solicition text.

Nobody is on here being critical of this run because they think it's cool. Being on a Spider-Man forum having deep discussions about an IP engine for more lucrative forms of merch and entertainment is about as uncool as it gets. If someone is enjoying this run, I give the benefit of them doubt that they truly are. That they put down the book and enjoyed it. I don't understand why it's so hard for those people to get the idea that many of us put the book down and genuinely feel it was bad. It's not an agenda.

[Garlador]

It’s cool to hate Wells but literally all of these are referenced and shown during this run. You might not like the framing and the previous history might not make sense to you for whatever reason but we were shown Peter and Felicia’s relationship, even before they officially got together in the Beyond arc, you have to be blind to not see the father / son relationship currently with Peter and Norman, MJ and Paul were trapped for together for how long surviving alone and people still don’t understand how they could’ve formed a relationship? Ok. Pete and Kamala were already friends so not getting the complaint there.

I don’t “dislike Wells”, but I agree with everything Coop said. I don’t feel there was adequate time spent “showing” these relationships compared to “telling” us they existed, at least not enough for several readers to buy into it. Repeatedly, book summaries would say things like “Peter and Felicia’s relationship is heating up!”, and fans would scratch their heads because Felicia had barely been in the book, or readers being told things about MJ and Paul’s relationship out-of-story in letters columns or summaries… that often were apparent mistakes (like them apparently being married). The status quo of all these relationships are at such polar extremes from before this run that, yes, you need more than a few lines of Peter calling Norman the “father figure he remembered” when a quick glance at their history reveals that relationship never properly existed and the man murdered three of his loved ones, drove another to his death, and faked the death of another. And that’s one of the more “believable” relationships the book had.

Comics are a visual medium. An on-going, serialized medium. We shouldn’t be 35 issues in and still questioning why characters are acting so out of character or pretending they have these new deep connections based off less attention and development than MJ’s fake kids.

[marvelprince]

"It's cool to hate Wells" is not a necessary component of a discussion about this comic, you don't need to attempt discredit or frame my dislike of the book as "just hating on Wells cause it's trendy" rather than an actual valid opinion held by an actual living person who read the book and didn't see it the same way you did. I don't mind discussing our disagreements, but I'm not gonna attempt to paint some less then ideal picture of you because you like and enjoy it and I'd appreciate if you extended that same courtesy towards me going forward. I came into Beyond optimistic and hopeful of Wells. I thought he had a chance to do a good job based on some of his previous (not Shed) stuff. But reading this run has turned my opinion of him completely 180. And no one is more disappointed than me about that. It sucks when a character you enjoy is in a rut of a run. I would love to put every issue down and be like "slam dunk, home run, where's my Paul action figure".

But I don't.

I'm extremely critical of the book, like many here, but I'm not critical of anyone enjoying it.

And alll you said about the Paul and MJ relationship was "They have been there for four years" which is a part of my criticism. The development of their relationship was not shown on panel. That's what I am criticizing. Issue 26 is a mostly wordless montage of vague scenes that allude to a romance. Maybe you feel "it was 4 years stuff happened" is satisfactory storytelling, I dont. After that, their relationship in the present has not been explored. It's been discussed countless times that there isn't any on panel displays of affection between them. There's been no banter or interactions that show why MJ fell for Paul and why she continues to stay with him. It's simply "well they were the only two people there for four years, of course they shacked up" which imo is extremely shallow and lazy storytelling and a disservice to the character of Mary Jane.

Felicia has been barely present in this run. Her biggest amount of panel time was on a fill in arc written by someone else. Nothing of the stuff Wells talked about of "Peter having to chase her" or any picture of what their existing relationship was like or why it fell apart was shown on panel. It's explaines after the fact but never explored. To me, that's bad storytelling.

Despite your protestations, I don't use a Jaws reader to read the comic or this site. Read with two functional eyes. I don't at all agree that what we have seen of Norman and Peter is enough to make it reasonable for Peter to call him a father figure. A potential mentor, a generous boss, maybe. But a father? The Green Goblin? I don't think so. They didn't earn that moment.

As for Kamala. She was in like 6 panels of this comic before her death. She has so few on panel interactions with anyone in the comic that people forgot she was supposedly a supporting cast member until she popped up to use a forgotten power and die. And that's made worse later when Norman tells his ridiculous coffee story. For me, good writing would have been to show that scene in a prior issue and have Norman reference it. Rather than just add in some interaction they had off panel.

The gang war bit, I think people are criticizing the solicitation "This sets up the next 24 issues of Spider-Man" and at face value, it looks like one scene that is completely separated from the rest of the arc was inserted and that's apparently how (Marvel's words) "This sets up the next 24 issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN." I'll grant that Norman being resinned will probably contribute to that but I think it's totally fair to roll your eyes at hyping that up when it's been a forgone conclusion since the Sins were extracted from him that he would get them back. And saying this issue sets up gang war and executed that by having a scene where some gangs fight and talk about a war is imo not well executed. If the chaos caused by Incel Pete was capitalized on or used by the various gangs to further destabilize the precarious peace of the city's criminal elements I don't think anyone would be imo, rightfully dunking on the solicition text.

Nobody is on here being critical of this run because they think it's cool. Being on a Spider-Man forum having deep discussions about an IP engine for more lucrative forms of merch and entertainment is about as uncool as it gets. If someone is enjoying this run, I give the benefit of them doubt that they truly are. That they put down the book and enjoyed it. I don't understand why it's so hard for those people to get the idea that many of us put the book down and genuinely feel it was bad. It's not an agenda.

Just because I acknowledge the overall landscape is "**** on Wells" doesn't mean I'm invalidating anyone's criticisms of the book. I did add other words after I said that to justify what I said after all. But just like it became vogue to hate on the current writer, much like we've seen done with Hickman, King and Bendis before him its a thing that happens and through that we just accept blanket criticisms without pushback. Again, if you don't feel enough time was shown on establishing a certain thing that's fine, that's a subjective opinion. When someone say something like Peter and Felicia's relationship was only shown off panel that's just plain wrong. When they say Peter and Norman have not been shown to have a father son relationship in this run its just wrong.

Oh forgot to add Ben did nothing wrong look Peter was just evil, ignoring only person Peter actually hurt was Norman and Ben was ready to sacrifice Peter and bring about hell on Earth cause he was pissy.

[marvelprince]

I don’t “dislike Wells”, but I agree with everything Coop said. I don’t feel there was adequate time spent “showing” these relationships compared to “telling” us they existed, at least not enough for several readers to buy into it. Repeatedly, book summaries would say things like “Peter and Felicia’s relationship is heating up!”, and fans would scratch their heads because Felicia had barely been in the book, or readers being told things about MJ and Paul’s relationship out-of-story in letters columns or summaries… that often were apparent mistakes (like them apparently being married). The status quo of all these relationships are at such polar extremes from before this run that, yes, you need more than a few lines of Peter calling Norman the “father figure he remembered” when a quick glance at their history reveals that relationship never properly existed and the man murdered three of his loved ones, drove another to his death, and faked the death of another. And that’s one of the more “believable” relationships the book had.

Comics are a visual medium. An on-going, serialized medium. We shouldn’t be 35 issues in and still questioning why characters are acting so out of character or pretending they have these new deep connections based off less attention and development than MJ’s fake kids.

That's cool man. I have my complaints too about the way some of the character interactions have been (i.e. Kamala and Peter) but it doesn't change my enjoyment of the book. On paper I would absolutely agree with you re Peter and Norman but in reading it I'm Team Norman now. I still don't believe it. Sin's Past still lingers in my nightmares with Norman's O face as my eternal bogeyman and here I am feeling sorry for the guy.

[Frontier]

Just because I acknowledge the overall landscape is "**** on Wells" doesn't mean I'm invalidating anyone's criticisms of the book. I did add other words after I said that to justify what I said after all. But just like it became vogue to hate on the current writer, much like we've seen done with Hickman, King and Bendis before him its a thing that happens and through that we just accept blanket criticisms without pushback. Again, if you don't feel enough time was shown on establishing a certain thing that's fine, that's a subjective opinion. When someone say something like Peter and Felicia's relationship was only shown off panel that's just plain wrong. When they say Peter and Norman have not been shown to have a father son relationship in this run its just wrong.

It was shown on panel but probably the bare minimum you can show on-panel of the main character in a relationship with someone. Even the two issues focusing on the relationship weren't even written by Wells.

And there is far too little to make people believe in MJ's relationship to Paul or how she's treated Peter in light of that in my opinion. Especially when Paul is so barely defined as a character.

I think Norman has definitely been a support and helpful figure. Whether that extends to fitting a "father figure" mold is up for debate, even if that's definitely how Wells has been trying to depict it.

[Garlador]

It was shown on panel but probably the bare minimum you can show on-panel of the main character in a relationship with someone. Even the two issues focusing on the relationship weren't even written by Wells.

And there is far too little to make people believe in MJ's relationship to Paul or how she's treated Peter in light of that in my opinion. Especially when Paul is so barely defined as a character.

I think Norman has definitely been a support and helpful figure. Whether that extends to fitting a "father figure" mold is up for debate, even if that's definitely how Wells has been trying to depict it.

The crazy thing is you CAN make readers buy into a relationship with only a few pages so long as the execution is razor-sharp and expertly presented. There were more pages dedicated to MJ and Paul’s relationship in ASM #25 than to setting up Jimmy Olsen and Silver Banshee over in “Superman”, but there was zero chemistry in the ASM pages, the writing and pacing was awkward and uncomfortable, and it didn’t satisfy many readers with its explanation, setup, or delivery.

Compare all of that to this one page:


I’m all in on this relationship. From zero to 100, I buy into it completely. It’s totally unexpected, but their chemistry and dynamic works so well that I absolutely believe in it and want more of it.

That’s what a supremely talented creative team can do, even with strict page limits.

(… also, read “Superman”. It’s great.)

[Coop]

Just because I acknowledge the overall landscape is "**** on Wells" doesn't mean I'm invalidating anyone's criticisms of the book. I did add other words after I said that to justify what I said after all. But just like it became vogue to hate on the current writer, much like we've seen done with Hickman, King and Bendis before him its a thing that happens and through that we just accept blanket criticisms without pushback. Again, if you don't feel enough time was shown on establishing a certain thing that's fine, that's a subjective opinion. When someone say something like Peter and Felicia's relationship was only shown off panel that's just plain wrong. When they say Peter and Norman have not been shown to have a father son relationship in this run its just wrong..

I didn't make blanket criticisms. I made very specific examples. And it's funny how you bring up subjective opinions and then go on to present your subjective opinions as the clearly right ones.

I don't view someone trying to make up for a lifetime of hurting someone by murdering their girlfriend, destroying their best friends mind and driving him to kill himself in a psychotic rampage, assaulting their very identity with an insane clone plot, tricking them into believing their aunt/surrogate mother was dead while she was really kidnapped and imprisoned, and murdering or kidnapping his unborn child by giving him a job and whining about how he wants to be a friend to him a father son relationship. It's more akin to an addict making amends.

I don't know why you felt the need to go back and address my comment about Ben from pages ago, but sure. You paint my comments about the depiction of Felicia x Peter and Norman x Peter as clearly wrong and then describe Ben, a person whose mind has been shattered by external forces and his personality collapsed into the Chasm (lmao) and has on panel not been shown to be able to clearly recall or make sense of his memories as "acting pissy. And then hand waving Peter trying to murder Kraven, trying to murder Tombstone, trying to murder Paul, carpet bombing the Holland Tunnel, and declaring his intent to hunt down and murder all his villains and anyone whose ever wronged him as no big deal.

The point of the criticism was that both these characters acted horribly and not as their usual selves and caused significant harm due to external factors beyond their control and the hypocrisy of Wells version of Peter to write himself a pass while judging and condemning Ben and Janine. Not to say one was worse than the other.

[Astroman]

The crazy thing is you CAN make readers buy into a relationship with only a few pages so long as the execution is razor-sharp and expertly presented. There were more pages dedicated to MJ and Paul’s relationship in ASM #25 than to setting up Jimmy Olsen and Silver Banshee over in “Superman”, but there was zero chemistry in the ASM pages, the writing and pacing was awkward and uncomfortable, and it didn’t satisfy many readers with its explanation, setup, or delivery.

Compare all of that to this one page:


I’m all in on this relationship. From zero to 100, I buy into it completely. It’s totally unexpected, but their chemistry and dynamic works so well that I absolutely believe in it and want more of it.

That’s what a supremely talented creative team can do, even with strict page limits.

(… also, read “Superman”. It’s great.)

Excellent example of how to do that right. And, yeah, Superman is great right now.

[Frontier]

The crazy thing is you CAN make readers buy into a relationship with only a few pages so long as the execution is razor-sharp and expertly presented. There were more pages dedicated to MJ and Paul’s relationship in ASM #25 than to setting up Jimmy Olsen and Silver Banshee over in “Superman”, but there was zero chemistry in the ASM pages, the writing and pacing was awkward and uncomfortable, and it didn’t satisfy many readers with its explanation, setup, or delivery.

Compare all of that to this one page:


I’m all in on this relationship. From zero to 100, I buy into it completely. It’s totally unexpected, but their chemistry and dynamic works so well that I absolutely believe in it and want more of it.

That’s what a supremely talented creative team can do, even with strict page limits.

(… also, read “Superman”. It’s great.)

And also the Jimmy and Silver Banshee relationship is sweet and not trying to wreck up the main relationship of the book like MJ and Paul did.