Bringing Back a Married Spider-Man - The Official Appeal - The Discord is Live!

[WebLurker]

I haven't told anyone they are "wrong". I have provided my stance on this subject and evidence in support of said stance.

Repeating the whole "don't campaign for OMD to be undone; just buy AU comics" statement sure comes across as that. (And once again, is is this really the place to discuss this specific topic?). So far as providing evidence, I don't think you're breaking any new ground here; repeating the same thing over and over again only goes so far.

Again, I've never stated my opinion is fact or called someone's opinion wrong. I don't have to say IMO in every single post. It's an internet message board. Opinion is already implied.

Not how you're coming across.

A few posters have pointed out that what made MJ the perfect choice for Peter to marry was that she was completely supportive of him being Spider-Man. This is more or less how the marriage was depicted throughout its existence. Even when there was external drama, MJ continued to support Peter's dual role. Hardly realistic. But again, the counter to it is that she isn't supportive and comes across as a shrew, or Peter is constantly letting down his family to be Spider-Man.

"Heads I win, tails you lose," huh?

Also, in general, from what I remember, most depictions of the relationship (that weren't trying written with an agenda to tear it down), dealt with complications that came from Peter's double life. Some of the '90s prose novels did that pretty well, the Venom arc in RYV used the superhero elements as a metaphor for the give and take in a marriage, and it's certainly long been a characterization that MJ's catch-22 of sorts is that she wishes Peter didn't have the Spider-Man calling but the sense of responsibility and moral character that leads him to it is a reason she fell in love with him in the first place. Heck, even the Ultimate comics, which were "just" about high school sweethearts, didn't shy away from just how hard a relationship would be.

Well, since I'm a sergeant for a law enforcement agency that I've worked at for 12 years AND have a wife and daughter, I may be the most suited to answer this question...

With all due respect, I find your logic faulty, at best.

As I stated previously, there's a difference in Peter letting down his girlfriend, his job, his teacher, etc., versus him letting down his wife and children.

And, as stated before, that's something that happens in life no matter what.

Interestingly, when the original Ultimate Spider-Man came out, offering an alternative for fans not in favor of the marriage and wanting a younger Peter, those fans were referred to that series by fans in favor of the marriage in lieu of the 616 titles. And when it became evident that Marvel was going to undo the marriage, fans constantly referenced Ultimate Spider-Man as a reason the marriage didn't need to be undone - there already was a single Spider-Man in comic books. Now that I'm more or less telling fans of the marriage the same thing by directing them towards the new Ultimate Spider-Man, they don't like that response.

My my my, how the turntables.

So, the series that repeatedly stated that Peter and MJ wanted to get married when they were adults, was very up front that the two of them were in love for real, ended with them basically eloping, and debuting at a time when the editors were trying to erase the marriage in 616 was meant to be an anti-marriage comic? That some pretty impressive pretzel logic. I mean, does it at least follow that the audience of that series would heavily overlap with fans of the marriage?

Funny story, but do you know why I'm such a fan of Peter and MJ being a married couple? USM was my first Spider-Man comic and it's still one of the most anti-OMD things Marvel ever authorized.

The misconception about Star Trek is that it didn't have support or ratings when it initially aired. This isn't true. Star Trek was almost canceled not because of ratings but because it was expensive to produce and Gene Roddenberry wasn't well-liked. It was brought back for a third season because fans did write in, but NBC all but sabotaged it by taking away all of Roddenberry's power, slashing its budget, and and moving it to the Friday night death slot.

Look, the save Star Trek campaign has been heavily mythologized, but the point still remains that viewers wrote in and that did have an impact. You can say as much as you like that letter writing to the Spider-Man editors is a waste of time, but what if it does make a difference

In any event, I've been referenced to Spider-Man 2 sellng 5 milion copies. Spider-Man 2 features a single Peter Parker. Do you think a petition that has, say, 10,000 signatures in favor of bringing the marriage back would have more or less impact than Spider-Man 2's 5 million copies, Ultimate Spider-Man outselling ASM consistently by thousands and thousands of units?

Irrelevant; the comic's sales numbers and customer base are a different demographic. Also, using pro-Peter/MJ material like the games and USM comics, which have heavy overlap in target audience, kinda weakens the point (e.g. Peter/MJ being a couple is "normal" Spider-Man and the single OMD variant is off-brand); if anything, it shows that there's more of an audience for the marriage and sundry than there is for the editors' beloved OMD Spider-Man.

Again, Ultimate Spider-Man outsold ASM and the other 616 titles for the first few years of its publication. All Star Superman outsold the main Superman titles. It's certainly possible for an AU Spider-Man to outsell the primary universe titles.

So, the moral of the story is that a comic series about Peter and MJ being a couple outselling the core series is proof that Marvel shouldn't have them be a couple there? Feel like we're splitting hairs here, at best.

Despite my feeling that it's a waste of time and resources since voting with your wallet will be the only thing Marvel listens to, nothing. But again, I'm reminded of the early and mid-00's when fans of the marriage were telling fans against the marriage to Ultimate Spider-Man.

Sending an email takes what, a few minutes? Not sure how that's much of a waste.

[Garlador]

Sending an email takes what, a few minutes? Not sure how that's much of a waste.

It takes just as much time to post a message here as it does to shoot off a quick email.

[WebLurker]

Just saw this linked on Reddit. Probably nothing, but an interesting statement nonetheless.

[Garlador]

Just saw this linked on Reddit. Probably nothing, but an interesting statement nonetheless.

Just a bit of an update.

We've almost tripled in size since the last post. Ultimate Spider-Man is causing a huge influx of new members joining. The reception to USM being so positive really has helped.

This thing has - thankfully - grown far beyond my means. I wasn't sure if I'd get even a dozen people to join. I honestly didn't know how passionate fans would be for this campaign. The response has humbled me, and I'm happy to have delegated a lot of the moderating and brainstorming to other talented individuals.

Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone here for helping it get off the ground. 2024 is looking to be quite the transitional year for the character.

[Astroman]

Just a bit of an update.

We've almost tripled in size since the last post. Ultimate Spider-Man is causing a huge influx of new members joining. The reception to USM being so positive really has helped.

This thing has - thankfully - grown far beyond my means. I wasn't sure if I'd get even a dozen people to join. I honestly didn't know how passionate fans would be for this campaign. The response has humbled me, and I'm happy to have delegated a lot of the moderating and brainstorming to other talented individuals.

Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone here for helping it get off the ground. 2024 is looking to be quite the transitional year for the character.

Many thanks to you and your team for fighting the good fight!

[Garlador]

Many thanks to you and your team for fighting the good fight!

I'm not here as much as I used to be with so much going on, but USM has definitely helped with a constant influx of new members. We're adding nearly 100 members a month, which is astounding, and the majority of them are quite active. I've had to add several mods just to ensure the chaos is managed well. Lol.

I'm trying to see the best method of launching an official webpage if only to more easily spell out who we are and what we're aiming to accomplish. This whole thing has been driven by word-of-mouth, and we're looking to have a more permanent and accessible mission statement landing page, as well as exploring more charitable goals like charity donations and comic creator support and recognition.

I don't see this slowing down anytime soon.

[JT221]

I'm not here as much as I used to be with so much going on, but USM has definitely helped with a constant influx of new members. We're adding nearly 100 members a month, which is astounding, and the majority of them are quite active. I've had to add several mods just to ensure the chaos is managed well. Lol.

I'm trying to see the best method of launching an official webpage if only to more easily spell out who we are and what we're aiming to accomplish. This whole thing has been driven by word-of-mouth, and we're looking to have a more permanent and accessible mission statement landing page, as well as exploring more charitable goals like charity donations and comic creator support and recognition.

I don't see this slowing down anytime soon.

Well...USM is the best thing to happen to Spider-Man in over 20 years.

[Garlador]

Popping in as we near the end of April with an update. I was super busy last month, so I wasn't able to do as much promotion as usual, yet we still wrangled in about 50 new members over the last 30 days and engagement is incredibly high.

More importantly, we're at a crossroads of what we need to do to keep momentum going and escalate our efforts. This campaign was launched on Dan Slott's suggestions of the path readers should take and... well... we're approach endgame here.




This is the state of things. This is how Spider-Man fans are "voting with their wallets" and making themselves heard.

I'm going to be the first to say that even I had my doubts that the response would be this strong, but my group has created hundreds of banners, promotions, memes, free marketing material pushing for USM's success, and I've looked over hundreds of emails personally of the readers submitting their feedback to the Spidey Office and USM offices over the last few months alone, and that's just the ones willing to share with me.

So I guess the question - for fans and for any Marvel creatives reading this - is what can we do next? Because we're doing exactly what was asked of us.

[ryu77]

Good job! Hope this never ends!

[Mister Mets]

Popping in as we near the end of April with an update. I was super busy last month, so I wasn't able to do as much promotion as usual, yet we still wrangled in about 50 new members over the last 30 days and engagement is incredibly high.

More importantly, we're at a crossroads of what we need to do to keep momentum going and escalate our efforts. This campaign was launched on Dan Slott's suggestions of the path readers should take and... well... we're approach endgame here.




This is the state of things. This is how Spider-Man fans are "voting with their wallets" and making themselves heard.

I'm going to be the first to say that even I had my doubts that the response would be this strong, but my group has created hundreds of banners, promotions, memes, free marketing material pushing for USM's success, and I've looked over hundreds of emails personally of the readers submitting their feedback to the Spidey Office and USM offices over the last few months alone, and that's just the ones willing to share with me.

So I guess the question - for fans and for any Marvel creatives reading this - is what can we do next? Because we're doing exactly what was asked of us.

The smart thing to do for Marvel would be to wait a little while to see if this book continues to be a major success. So they're not going to make major decisions for Amazing Spider-Man based on the success of this one title.

So what can fans do that like this title, and want to see more comics like it? I can understand a concern that fans who are part of a community may lose interest, especially since the basis is a monthly comic book that takes ten minutes to read (and I'm being generous.) Marvel has similar concerns that support for the title may peter out, and that less people will buy it.

One thing a fan community can do is continue celebrating the book. Have speculation about what can happen in future issues? What has Hickman seeded already? What would you like to see? Talk about your favorite scenes and why you like it. For example, have any parents realized that "BK- Before Kids" is a relatable way to discuss how having kids can change you?

Another thing would be to discuss related comics. Writer Deniz Camp is pretty open about wanting Ultimate Spider-Man fans to check out his version of the Ultimates, so anyone who likes that book should celebrate it. That can show Marvel that Ultimate Spider-Man is a rising tide that lifts sales of other titles. There's probably an opening for discussions of Hickman's other comic book work. so that would be a way to spark engagement. Maybe discuss comics that would be of interest to people who like the new Ultimate Spider-Man. The DeMatteis/ Buscema Harry Osborn saga might be appropriate, given the psychological depth.

[Xix25]

I don't see what Marvel has to gain by dragging their feet when they could make quicker adjustments to earn more money. Or are we fine with losing out in the short run for the chance of a long term gain that may never come? Feels bizarre to advocate for patience in times like this when things are going so well. It's not like they've shown patience being rewarded before.

[Kurus]

At this point it’s more a matter of ego than anything else. It’s clear that the BND status quo is a dead end. That’s why each of Peter’s love interests get progressively less time and development, cause why put effort into something that’ll never go anywhere.

[Garlador]

I don't see what Marvel has to gain by dragging their feet when they could make quicker adjustments to earn more money. Or are we fine with losing out in the short run for the chance of a long term gain that may never come? Feels bizarre to advocate for patience in times like this when things are going so well. It's not like they've shown patience being rewarded before.

I'm going to be fair here and give the 616 office the benefit of the doubt for a couple of reasons, but with the caveat that these conditions are tenuous and provisional.

• - The stated timeframe for a book to reasonably alter and adjust its trajectory is, apparently, around 6 months minimum. That's 6 months to come to a decision, plan it out, hire talent, and prepare adequate marketing and solicitation information. Ultimate Spider-Man has trounced ASM for four months, so even if a decision was made back in January, there wouldn't be any momentum to make that happen until at least June...
• - ... And more than likely nobody at Marvel predicted that USM would resonate with readers as strongly as it has thus far. The multiple printings is proof of a continued demand that far outstripped supply, and considering it's a new Spider-Man series, that's impressive. More impressive is that even if they predicted #1 would sell out, additional issues have held strong retention, proving it's not just speculators jumping on a shiny #1 but invested readers returning month after month.
• - It was stated that Bendis's Ultimate Spider-Man radically reshaped the ideology of the Spider-Man offices to pivot and push for a younger, single Spider-Man, which was a change felt across the board in movies, cartoons, and, eventually, the 616 (at least in presentation). However, that still took time to initiate that messaging - years, in fact. USM has the benefit of being the latest in projects starring an OLDER Peter - e.g. it was directly said that Peter B. in the Spider-Verse movies as an inspiration, and RYV showed preliminary interest in returning to a more mature direction for the character.
• - ASM has also, to this point, been a steady and reliable seller. While we don't have actual sales numbers, we know it sells to someone, and Marvel doesn't care if it's speculators, diehard OCD completionists, or just comic shops ordering as many copies as they can to get that 25:1 special variant cover. To that end, there wasn't a sales crisis to cause them to reconsider their decisions. However, it's open knowledge that the CONTENT of the story has proven divisive, there's been more backlash in recent years than normal, and certain creatives at Marvel has been outright combatitive with fans and readers questioning decisions and asking for change or improvements.
• - And more importantly, the success of USM - at over a 2x rate over ASM, no less - is revealing what others are saying; that what was assumed to be a sales ceiling for ASM was likely a sales floor, and that more than DOUBLE the amount of Spider-Man readers that existed a few months ago, who felt dismissed and unwelcome by ASM's editorial, remained hungry for a book that would resonate with them as ASM once did years ago. The readers were always there; Marvel just wasted years and lost countless sales failing to cater to them properly, and these new fans are going to likely hold up this book as at more desirable alternative for many years to come, provided the quality remains consistent.

So what all this means is that Marvel should be paying close attention, but that I don't blame them for not slamming on the brakes just yet. However, there needs to come a reasonable point where they realize that the "vocal minority" they dismissed was actually a very hungry, passionate majority - with money to spare and a willingness to spend - and it would behoove them to find ways for the 616 to satisfy them too. The 616 once did exactly that and nothing is stopping them from doing that again, except maybe some bruised egos.

[Xix25]

I understand the general delays in production slowing things down, but I feel this should be enough of a signal to have serious discussions on the type of production that ASM should have, if they aren't being had already now.

[Majesty]

MARVEL likely expected USM to sell really well early on given the entire thing is marketed to be a thing to specifically draw in those fans whom had been so vocal.

But it's only been 4-5 issues in currently, and they aren't going to make decisions based on that. It selling extremely well was the expectation, at least early on.

If we reach this same time next year and it's #1 and still going strong, then it will get more notice. 4 Issues at #1 is nothing in the grand scheme.

30 Issues at #1 however, is.