All in good fun, prove you're a cranky old Marvel fan.

[Psy-lock]

Brian is Captain Britain, Betsy is Psylocke, Kwannon is just Kwannon.

[Alan2099]

Brian is Captain Britain, Betsy is Psylocke, Kwannon is just Kwannon.

I will also settle for Kwannon being Revanche.

[ComicNoobie]

I have more!

Hulk and Doctor Stranger are Defenders! Hulk's association with the Avengers has mostly been that of an antagonist. Hulk is a founding and proud Defender.

[JudicatorPrime]

You do get a lot of that around here. People don’t like to see things evolve.

Yes and no.

In too many cases, what we're seeing are derivative developments which detract from the GREAT material that came before it. Take the whole Thor possibly being the son of the Phoenix thing. I don't consider that evolving Thor's character. At all. Clearly someone got drunk and decided that penning Odin boinking the Phoenix Force was a good idea. That's kind of like saying that Odin mind-forked the collective sentience of every living being in the multiverse that ever was and ever will be -- himself included -- and out came Thor. Please.

Do better contemporary Marvel writers. Do better.

[Chris0013]

You do get a lot of that around here. People don’t like to see things evolve.

Yes and no.

In too many cases, what we're seeing are derivative developments which detract from the GREAT material that came before it. Take the whole Thor possibly being the son of the Phoenix thing. I don't consider that evolving Thor's character. At all. Clearly someone got drunk and decided that penning Odin boinking the Phoenix Force was a good idea. That's kind of like saying that Odin mind-forked the collective sentience of every living being in the multiverse that ever was and ever will be -- himself included -- and out came Thor. Please.

Do better contemporary Marvel writers. Do better.

Spider-Man. Peter did evolve. He grew up, he married MJ, they were having a kid....then OMD happened and devolved him back to loser man child.

The recent retcons in Cap's and Bucky's origins were not evolving either...they were a radical alteration of what has been their history for decades.

Beast becoming the bastard shown recently in X-titles since Krakoa started is not evolving either...it is flat our character assassination.

[marhawkman]

Yes and no.

In too many cases, what we're seeing are derivative developments which detract from the GREAT material that came before it. Take the whole Thor possibly being the son of the Phoenix thing. I don't consider that evolving Thor's character. At all. Clearly someone got drunk and decided that penning Odin boinking the Phoenix Force was a good idea. That's kind of like saying that Odin mind-forked the collective sentience of every living being in the multiverse that ever was and ever will be -- himself included -- and out came Thor. Please.

Do better contemporary Marvel writers. Do better.

Thor being the son of GAIA, was weird enough!

[Gaastra]

I deleted for being too grumpy for this lighter thread.

[Sutekh]

Yeah "back to status" is going backwards. Some cases like that awful she-hulk as hulk who "hates her powers" when every story before said she loved it was not evolving it's bad out of character writing the editor should have vetoed so getting rid of it was good.

Spidey "it's magic" isn't one of those. It's "I want spidey to go back to act like a kid and throw away decades of Character building to make petar a loser again" when you had ultimate spider-man for that. Sandman mind controlled for 25 years as we had no real in canon way to make him bad again as he evolved pass that in growth so lame "mind control" from the same machine his "buddy" thing has a cure for but him or the avengers won't cure the poor guy making them look like jerks for 25 years and dr doom at last giving his hate for the ff after 20000000 stories over and over only for the next writer to throw it away months later and here we go again with doom hates reed story 20000001 is not also. Nor is magneto has turned good for a decade but let's turn him bad again for no reason and throw away decade of stories but we want him bad again so it's ok.

It's taking away evolving and throwing it in the trash to go back to the way it was before. It's "torch wife was a skrull the whole time" stuff.

Man, I really am an old grouch! Get off my lawn you kids! And you are not getting the frisbee back!

I agree so much! I liked these developments. The characters were growing, being developed, organically. Peter was married, and we had a plethora of young heroes to tell the young, awkward coming-into-one's-role stories that we read with Peter all through the '70s and '80s. That's literally what characters like Miles and Silk are for!

Yes, there are fans who hate change. And there are editors and writers at the companies who want to go back to the way things were when *they* were kids, reading these books, and that's a step backwards, IMO. You don't re-tell old stories with old characters, you tell *new* stories with those established characters, and if you want to retread a popular theme, like an unsure-of-themself-hero finding their way in the world, do it with a NEW character, not someone whose been an established and respected adult hero *for decades!* (And not just Peter. Dane Whitman, Scott Lang and Clint Barton have all gone from being respected heroes, leaders of teams even!, to total screw-up laughing stocks, not taken seriously by their former teammates, and having to be saved by their daughters (in Scott and Dane's case), or teen legacy (in Clint's case). Where'd all that growth and development go for these characters?)

And no, it's *my* frisbee now, you punks!

[ARkadelphia]

I agree so much! I liked these developments. The characters were growing, being developed, organically. Peter was married, and we had a plethora of young heroes to tell the young, awkward coming-into-one's-role stories that we read with Peter all through the '70s and '80s. That's literally what characters like Miles and Silk are for!

Yes, there are fans who hate change. And there are editors and writers at the companies who want to go back to the way things were when *they* were kids, reading these books, and that's a step backwards, IMO. You don't re-tell old stories with old characters, you tell *new* stories with those established characters, and if you want to retread a popular theme, like an unsure-of-themself-hero finding their way in the world, do it with a NEW character, not someone whose been an established and respected adult hero *for decades!* (And not just Peter. Dane Whitman, Scott Lang and Clint Barton have all gone from being respected heroes, leaders of teams even!, to total screw-up laughing stocks, not taken seriously by their former teammates, and having to be saved by their daughters (in Scott and Dane's case), or teen legacy (in Clint's case). Where'd all that growth and development go for these characters?)

And no, it's *my* frisbee now, you punks!

Building on the last 2 posts, the whole “putting the toys back in the toy box” is the dumbest concept to me. As a writer, wouldn’t you want to add new elements to a character that will continue for years to come? Why this desire to bring things back to where you started. I’m guessing some of it is editorially mandated, but the point carries over.

[MyriVerse]

Rogue was best with Ms Marvel's powers.

Of course! And Rogue was better with Ms. Marvel's powers than Carol ever was. And I love Carol too.

The Beast is not a **** villain.

The best Beast was not with an X. It was him and Simon! Since early X-Factor, the X-Office has done nothing but ruin him.

Moira is a FLATSCAN, who doesn't skin people.

Pym paid for every bad thing he ever did way back in the 80s.

Peter should have chosen Felicia, but having chose MJ, he should still be with her.

Baby May LIVES!!!

Wanda being a witch should have remained irony.

X-Men in a mansion-- in upstate New York, not even Central Park.

Nick Fury in charge of SHIELD, not chained to the moon or whatever he's doing now. And you can't just shoot Uatu.

The Punisher is a bad guy ... because murder is bad!

Eh. Even back in the 70s, I felt that Frank was just doing the things the heroes should have been doing.

The Marvel universe ended sometime between 2001 and 2004. This is an entirely new universe of characters where confidence has been replaced by arrogance, character development by quips and tight plotting by decompressed naval gazing and "meta" in-jokes.

Yeah.

[ARkadelphia]

Continuing…

Rogue makes a better Avenger than X-Man

[Gaastra]

Edit--I'm getting alittle to grouchy in a thread meant to be silly in with my grips above, right? Sorry about that.

[DrNewGod]

Deleted. I'll just say, critiques of posts in a thread intended to be in good fun might belong in another thread.

[Riv86672]

The best Beast was not with an X. It was him and Simon! Since early X-Factor, the X-Office has done nothing but ruin him.

Moira is a FLATSCAN, who doesn't skin people.

Pym paid for every bad thing he ever did way back in the 80s.

Peter should have chosen Felicia, but having chose MJ, he should still be with her.

Baby May LIVES!!!

Wanda being a witch should have remained irony.

X-Men in a mansion-- in upstate New York, not even Central Park.

Nick Fury in charge of SHIELD, not chained to the moon or whatever he's doing now. And you can't just shoot Uatu.

^^^I'm down w. these.

[skyvolt2000]

"Comics were the best when I started reading them."

There. Pretty much sums up comic book fans as a whole.

Yes and no.


Back when most of us were reading-we didn't start at issue 1. A LOT of us started at issues 200 or 150 or 7 and didn't look back.

When we started NOBODY threw a fit if someone like Falcon got a mini or Power Pack or Generation X or the New Warriors got an ongoing. If Marvel Comics Presents existed.

We saw new characters and NOBODY threw fits. Saying Night Thrasher is putting comic book stores out of business. Or need to band together against an Inhuman or Blade book.

We did not care-it was more the merrier.

If a book got axed-we THANKED Marvel for trying not say this proves an entire race doesn't read comics or nobody like that character or franchise.

Folks read what they wanted to read and went about their business.

The only way was someone get replaced, new guy takes over and then old guy comes back and there is an EFFORT to build up the new as himself.

Like we saw with Rhodey. He took over twice as Iron Man and then went off as War Machine got a mini and then an ongoing. What should have been done with Falcon.


It's not that folks don't want change or evolution- they want it to make SENSE.

Folks GREW with Peter Parker-the loser in high school and college, the photographer, the dating man, the married man and eventual father. That was taken away for WHAT?

We won't talk that mess going on in Black Panther.

How does a guy who took on the Fantastic Four for FUN and ran a nation that made the Skrulls Wakanda's bytch get beat up by Joe Goon, get blamed for everything, abused by Cap America and will mostly be beaten up by Monet.
To where Marvel ACTIVELY hire writers who HATE him.

Who does that???