All in good fun, prove you're a cranky old DC fan

[Sutekh]

Back in the day, a two-parter was amazing (the occasionally three- or four-parter was for extra-special stories, of which so much happened that it could change the entire direction of books).

I am always surprised when I go back and re-read some of these iconic stories of the Titans or Legion (or Avengers) and find out the Judas Contract or Great Darkness Saga or Universo Project were handled so quickly it couldn't even warrant a six-issue 'trade' by today's standards, and I look at today's trades, and they don't even tell complete stories, ending on a cliff-hanger, or, in some cases, don't even seem to have an arcing theme or connective through-story other than 'these six issue happened consecutively, and the character is popular, so *trade!*'

As for splash pages, my pet peeve is that so many of them have no real significance, no impact, no real importance to the story. Back in the day, a splash page was a big deal, it was the climactic end of a fight or shocking reveal of the death of some significant friend or ally or the hero, not just an intro of the character lurking on a rooftop thinking about dramatic events that the art should be *showing* me, or, my least favorite, two characters, or two teams rushing at each other, as if the artist is getting paid by the character, and wants to make sure everyone is on the page, but not doing anything other than moving at one another. So utterly boring and lifeless and lacking dynamism or drama or *anything.* A fight scene shouldn't be 'and they run at each other!'

[Restingvoice]

Is that what originally happened? Were they just gunned down in the middle of the street?

Yes, it's the same street where the theater's entrance is located, or sometimes bit further away and very late at night that there's no more people around

[wonder39]

Just for clarification, reading since the late 60's. Agree with most everything in this thread so far. And my remarks are more about superhero comics and not just DC comics... That said:

Hate, hate, hate the multi-issue, highly decompressed story-telling found in comics now. Back in the day, a two-parter was amazing (the occasionally three- or four-parter was for extra-special stories, of which so much happened that it could change the entire direction of books). I grew up with comics that might have two or three complete stories in them, not "part 1 of 8" or some such thing... I admit, it might be due to the way comics were distributed back then (where you got them off spinner racks in local stores, and not your LCS), but today's stories, with the extreme decompression... Seriously, in some cases, 22 pages and *nothing* of consequence happens... It's nuts. Over in the Batman forum, there's a thread about best batman story ever. Mine were two stories that wouldn't even fill a whole issue now (let alone in the 70's when they were published). But they both hit me harder than any of the longer, so-called "more complex" stories you see nowadays (one was the first comic book story I ever cried at the end of, so it had that going for it).

And speaking of longer storylines, as I said, they were generally used to for big effects, or to tell complete stories unto themselves (like the first 12-issue maxi-series, Camelot 3000). You look at the Great Darkness Saga, which took 5 issues of the LSH, or the Judas Contract, which took 3 regular issues and 1 annual from the NTT, and those stories had impact... It seems nowadays, 4-5 issues means there's been a shift from day to night... (sorry, that's a bit sarcastic... maybe).

Two, multiple splash pages in a single issue... Darn it all, splash pages are reserved for the 1st page and maybe... *maybe* once in the middle of the issue... When every other page is a bloody splash page, you know decompression is just want the story is going for... I get that splash pages allow for the artist to show off their talents... But man... Waste of space.

Three, The way the term "retroactive continuity" (ret-con) has been mangled... Originally, it was where something interesting was inserted in the past of the character, that really didn't change any of the previous stories shown with the character... Now it just the easy way for the current writer to totally change something he/she wants to get rid of... (of course, there's really only a couple of good uses of ret-cons I liked, like the Anatomy Lesson from Swamp Thing, and some of the changes with the JSA... Otherwise...)

Okay... I better stop... The more I think about this... The more irritated I get...

No, keep going....lol

It's like Doomsday Clock or the three years of the 52 Wonder Woman debacle. COIE destroyed and rebuikt the enture Infinite Multiverse in 12 issues. DDC should have been told in 6. The 52 WW coukd have been a year at most, not 36 issues. Agony. Sheer agony.

Plus, i miss boxes of text that set up a scene, or emphasize the emotion of a moment. " but everything is so wordy..."
9_9.
Git off mah lawn, whipper-snappers!! Lol

[married guy]

Okay, I qualify as a cranky old fart so here's my gripe:

Barry Allen's parents are alive & well.
Barry Allen is married to Iris West.

[JThree]

Okay, I qualify as a cranky old fart so here's my gripe:

Barry Allen's parents are alive & well.
Barry Allen is married to Iris West.

I hear you, married guy, I hear you. In the original history, Barry's parents outlived him. Hate the revisionism. Hate it. Hate it.

--jthree

[Sutekh]

I hear you, married guy, I hear you. In the original history, Barry's parents outlived him. Hate the revisionism. Hate it. Hate it.

--jthree

I like variety, preferably a range of options, just just a binary (both parents alive, both parents dead) choice. Superman and Batman are famous for dead parents as part of their origin stories, so I want *other* big Leaguers to have some different options. One parent alive, both parents alive, parents divorced and one or both remarried and now maybe they've got two pairs of parents?

It particularly irks me when an immortal parent is ganked for some cheap drama affecting their kid. Hippolyta, Odin, whoever. If they've been around for 2000+ years, nothing in your stupid event of the summer involving a villain nobody's ever heard of before now, and won't remember the name of six months from now, should be able to kill them!

[Jim Kelly]

I've seen John Wesley Shipp die on screen more times than I care to remember.

[JThree]

I like variety, preferably a range of options, just just a binary (both parents alive, both parents dead) choice. Superman and Batman are famous for dead parents as part of their origin stories, so I want *other* big Leaguers to have some different options. One parent alive, both parents alive, parents divorced and one or both remarried and now maybe they've got two pairs of parents?

It particularly irks me when an immortal parent is ganked for some cheap drama affecting their kid. Hippolyta, Odin, whoever. If they've been around for 2000+ years, nothing in your stupid event of the summer involving a villain nobody's ever heard of before now, and won't remember the name of six months from now, should be able to kill them!

Excellent points Sutekh. Excellent. Why do so many comic book writers have to replicate the same tragedy in the formation of superheroes. Barry did just fine when he had a history of both parents living, then we have to re-write everything to give Central City's Scarlet Speedster some angst. It wasn't necessary. Barry was a nice contrast to Batman and Superman, in that he didn't have a tragedy to make him a hero. He was a good man, who used his abilities to help others. And we also could say "good parenting."

--jthree

[Garrac]

I miss Grant Morrison

[marhawkman]

I like the way the old Superfriends handled alternate universes better than the way modern DC comics handles alternate universe. It's easy! It makes sense!, why over-complicate it!!!!!

[Mike]

All I can say is I liked the DC Universe way more before COIE than after.

[Sutekh]

All I can say is I liked the DC Universe way more before COIE than after.

I really liked it at the time, even if I flinched at some of the destruction, being a huge fan of Earth 2, the Crime Syndicate and some individual characters like Kole, that were lost. But after seeing the after-effects on properties like the Legion, which was one of DCs top two selling properties at the time, my memories are less fond. Plus it seems like all of the big deal changes made were undone, some gradually, some many years later. Barry's back. Kara Zor-El's been back for decades. The multiverse still exists. Superman was a teen. Just, all crept back into existence.

I'm just waiting for Kole, Laurel Kent and the rest of the classic Legion (complete with fond memories of visiting with Superman-when-he-was-a-teen in their own past) to come back.

[Riv86672]

All I can say is I liked the DC Universe way more before COIE than after.

^^^Ooh, I’m def. a Post Crisis guy.

I grew up reading Pre Crisis; I was 16 when Crisis happened, and was more of a Marvel Fan by then tbh.
Crisis (and the rebooted books that followed) rekindled my fascination w. and love for, the DCU.

[Laser_Man]

^^^Ooh, I’m def. a Post Crisis guy.

I grew up reading Pre Crisis; I was 16 when Crisis happened, and was more of a Marvel Fan by then tbh.
Crisis (and the rebooted books that followed) rekindled my fascination w. and love for, the DCU.

Same for me. Post Crisis is just better.

Even big names like Superman and Wonder Woman have just a handful of memorable stories before COIE. It's even worse for most of the others. Batman is saved mostly thanks to Dennis O'Neil.

[Restingvoice]

Dick came before Alfred and it's much easier to explain the impulsivity of a 20-something obsessive crime fighter adopting a child and teaching him crime fighting because he finds him relatable and want to help him at the same time without a saintly father figure that can do no wrong

Coz now you're just trying to shift blame depending on who you think it's more at fault

That's why in modern stories I support Alfred's rights as well as Alfred's wrongs
Let Alfred be butler first and then grow into fatherhood over the years rather than having them already perfect the first time
So both Bruce and Alfred have their rights and wrongs