Road to Superman: Legacy - Superman For All Seasons

[Vordan]

In the lead up to Superman: Legacy’s release I feel like doing rereads of all the stuff Gunn is citing as source material. Been ages since I read FAS so I felt like starting off with that.



Did a review on my blog but some quick thoughts for here:

-Holy crap that art is amazing. Sale knocks you on your ass with every spread and the colors are divine.
-Writing meanwhile isn’t even close to being on the same level. It’s extremely basic - Clark manifests powers, realizes he doesn’t want to stay in Smallville when he could use them to help, confesses his secret to Lana, goes to Metropolis and becomes Superman, suffers a single setback and quits for a bit, reunites with Lana and she helps him rediscover his confidence, the end.
-Most damming thing is that the “real” Clark is the most boring of the three identities. Superman has a friendly neighborhood hero vibe going on plus he has some cheekiness to him like when he escorts Lex back to Lexcorp Tower after getting him arrested. Metropolis Clark shows some backbone and is willing to take Lois to task when she’s rifling through his stuff. Smallville Clark just mopes and walks around with puppy dog eyes.
-Was Loeb one of those “Lana is Clark’s real true love” fans? I remember him being a Peter/Gwen purist so it wouldn’t surprise me if he likewise favored the Clark/Lana romance. Lois is in the Post Crisis Byrne model here and I’ve never really liked when they have her date Lex. Feels like she’s a sellout for that since she knows Lex is a bad guy. Lana meanwhile is more “down to Earth” and has the role that usually goes to Lois of being the one to give Clark the kick in the ass he needs to pick himself up when he’s despondent. Also everyone keeps saying she and Clark are the perfect couple lol. I dunno it just kinda feels like Loeb prefers Lana, and if this was a big influence on Post Crisis Supes I can see why some writers might have preferred Lana to Lois when they started taking over the books in the 00s.
-Lex is Diet Kingpin and is very lame for it. Any Lex who needs someone else to make a virus for him is not muh Lex

If this is an influence on Legacy my hope is that it’s restricted to the location portrayals. Sale’s Smallville and Metropolis are absolutely amazing and I wish we had gotten to see him draw a proper Fortress of Solitude. Characterization wise, I guess you could base Ma and Pa, maybe Lana if she shows up, off of how they’re used here, but I can’t say I’m a huge fan of how Clark or Lex are portrayed.

[Arsenal]

Would you mind sharing what else is on this list?

Might be interested in doing this as well.

[Kuwagaton]

Sounds very slanted against what FAS is and maybe missing what Gunn could see in it. Sale's art wasn't an isolated product. I mean the "diet Kingpin" thing for example always gets thrown around when people don't seem to like an older and less mad scientific Lex, when really you could argue that the more thuggish elements of Fisk (not the ability to say, fight Captain America or Daredevil hand to hand though) came from Lex and his Alexei derivative in the first place. Maybe the interesting point could stem from the Faustian scheming, we saw this element just recently creep up in Lost as well.

If Legacy is ultimately enjoyed, it's not going to be in spite of its influences but because of them, y'know?

[exile001]

Sounds very slanted against what FAS is and maybe missing what Gunn could see in it. Sale's art wasn't an isolated product. I mean the "diet Kingpin" thing for example always gets thrown around when people don't seem to like an older and less mad scientific Lex, when really you could argue that the more thuggish elements of Fisk (not the ability to say, fight Captain America or Daredevil hand to hand though) came from Lex and his Alexei derivative in the first place. Maybe the interesting point could stem from the Faustian scheming, we saw this element just recently creep up in Lost as well.

If Legacy is ultimately enjoyed, it's not going to be in spite of its influences but because of them, y'know?

This.

The version of Lex here was still a genius and a great scientific mind, but he just wasn't as fluent in everything. He was somewhat above actually working on projects directly, which came through as he originally was also behind a lot of the organised crime in Metropolis, and just didn't like to get his hands dirty unless absolutely necessary. He was more of a tech guy directly (building his fortune on the Lex-Wing), but he understood pretty much every project to a strong degree.

But he was a man who had already won. He'd conquered the city and, to one degree or another, every single thing in it was working for him and had been for years.

That's why Superman galled him so. Superman said "no." Ironically, the same thing drew him to Lois.

But this Luthor is at heart a much more interesting villain for Superman, particularly for the time, as it's someone Superman needs to outsmart rather than outpunch. It gives Superman an underdog story as he's slowly getting wins against a legal tyrant.

This Luthor still threw ridiculous machines and powered beings at Superman, as he always had, but now he was doing it from an office.

We keep getting writers trying to go back to mad scientist Lex (One Year Later, New 52, etc) and yet he always reverts back because this Lex is just the more interesting foil for Superman, Clark, Lois and the Daily Planet.

That's my two cents (or pence, as I'm English) anyway.

Also, I know this is heresy but... I hate Sale's Superman. Always have.

[Kuwagaton]

He's kinda... sausage like in that one. He looked a little better in the Confidential story from Cooke. Sale had drawn a lot of amazing things and I wish he did Superman more like his Cap or Daredevil physically.

All well said on the rest, too.

[exile001]

Sale had drawn a lot of amazing things and I wish he did Superman more like his Cap or Daredevil physically.

I love EVERYTHING else by Sale. Heck, my avatar is Killer Moth because one of the first comics I got was Sale and Grant's "Misfits" arc in Shadow of the Bat and I fell in love with that story and his Killer Moth design.

[Vordan]

Sounds very slanted against what FAS is and maybe missing what Gunn could see in it. Sale's art wasn't an isolated product. I mean the "diet Kingpin" thing for example always gets thrown around when people don't seem to like an older and less mad scientific Lex, when really you could argue that the more thuggish elements of Fisk (not the ability to say, fight Captain America or Daredevil hand to hand though) came from Lex and his Alexei derivative in the first place. Maybe the interesting point could stem from the Faustian scheming, we saw this element just recently creep up in Lost as well.

If Legacy is ultimately enjoyed, it's not going to be in spite of its influences but because of them, y'know?

I generally don’t like Post Crisis Superman and I’ve never tried to portray my opinion as being anything other than my opinion. This isn’t an “objective” review lol. Sorry man, Lex here and everywhere else I read a take that draws heavily on Post Crisis Lex does not come across as impressive, he comes across as a lesser version of Kingpin. His plan to break Superman here can not hold a candle to how Kingpin destroyed Daredevil.

Would you mind sharing what else is on this list?

Might be interested in doing this as well.

Brainiac, Birthright, All-Star Superman, Ending Battle, and John Byrne’s run were all influences apparently.

He's kinda... sausage like in that one. He looked a little better in the Confidential story from Cooke. Sale had drawn a lot of amazing things and I wish he did Superman more like his Cap or Daredevil physically.

All well said on the rest, too.

So even you don’t love every aspect of it! But yes I don’t really like the way Sale draws Clark, it definitely contributes to how I see this Superman as something of a rube.

[Kuwagaton]

I generally don’t like Post Crisis Superman and I’ve never tried to portray my opinion as being anything other than my opinion. This isn’t an “objective” review lol.

Yeah, I just think where Gunn is concerned it gets interesting to think about what can be extrapolated. I don't like Up in the Sky, for me it's below At Earth's End, but for a reference I think there's still a ton to pull from it to add to a good tapestry. Of course that said it's also not my thread.

Gunn is picking some interesting choices and many elements haven't been together before or on screen. Ending Battle is probably surprising enough before you throw in Metamorpho and Brainiac, for starters.

Sorry man, Lex here and everywhere else I read a take that draws heavily on Post Crisis Lex does not come across as impressive, he comes across as a lesser version of Kingpin. His plan to break Superman here can not hold a candle to how Kingpin destroyed Daredevil.

Well Born Again is the very best of the superhero genre and not only does the use of Fisk fail to generally meet that bar, but aside from D'onofrio Kingpin is well below the corporate Lex of Hackman, Spacey, Rosenbaum, Brown, etc in pop culture. He's kind of "Sumo Lex" lol.

So even you don’t love every aspect of it! But yes I don’t really like the way Sale draws Clark, it definitely contributes to how I see this Superman as something of a rube.

My other description was harsh. I get that the thickness is correlated to Boring, Reeves, and leaning more heavily into the farm upbringing, but I have to agree on the aesthetic.

I also have to agree that for the staggering range of Loeb when writing Superman, one of the most amazing things in his career was maintaining that relationship with Sale. If I was collaborating with him and he decided to draw Huck against my wishes, I'd just have to roll with it too.