Tim Drake where is his place in DC?

[dietrich]

Did fans really not like it?

Fans on here and Reddit didn't however they liked that his origin was restored.

Not sure how tumblr and Ao3 fans felt.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

tumblr and A03 don't count


I liked Tynion's Tim for the most part

[Aahz]

DC already did that. Rebirth Tec with Tynion was exactly that. Fans didn't like that.

I think fans liked it in the beginning, problem was he had than Tim kidnapped, into story arc that was supposed to tie somewhere into the whole rebirth mystery but went absolutely nowhere.
And instead of setting Tim up for solo he was than again send of to join Young Justice, which wouldn't have been a bad Idea, if that series would have been any good.

[Restingvoice]

Fans on here and Reddit didn't however they liked that his origin was restored.

Not sure how tumblr and Ao3 fans felt.

Tumblr likes the Tim part, the Cass part, and the run in general
It's the Steph part later on that they don't like coz she's too revolved around Tim to the point that she decided to agree with the Victims group because of Tim's death, and came back because Tim returns

[dietrich]

I think fans liked it in the beginning, problem was he had than Tim kidnapped, into story arc that was supposed to tie somewhere into the whole rebirth mystery but went absolutely nowhere.
And instead of setting Tim up for solo he was than again send of to join Young Justice, which wouldn't have been a bad Idea, if that series would have been any good.

Well the Tim Drake 2018 Appreciation Thread and the discussion threads for Rebirth Tec say otherwise.

Button-Fu
Arrogant
Gary-Stu
Nu-52 Tim's personality
Insufferable
Walking Plot Device
Boring

were some of the most recurring descriptors used by fans on the Appreciation thread before he was Kidnapped.


Plot and story wise

They hated the chosen one role that led to his kidnap [that wasn't Tynion's pitch though]
His function as tech guy and the way his dialogue came off
The out of nowhere and romanticised relationship with Steph [They really hated his 'loss of innocence' to her]
The way his death was handled.
The fact that he's wins all felt like ass pulls rather than strategy. Just button spamming.
Steph's characterisation. etc

The setting up and sending off to join YJ was actually well received.

The 2018 Appreciation thread and the Rebirth Tec issue review threads are still right here on CBR.

by fans I mean the vast majority of the regulars posters on the 2018 tim thread. Not all but a sizeable enough majority that it standout/very clear.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Tumblr likes the Tim part, the Cass part, and the run in general
It's the Steph part later on that they don't like coz she's too revolved around Tim to the point that she decided to agree with the Victims group because of Tim's death, and came back because Tim returns

That is a valid complaint and I feel the same way despite like the run overall

BUT since it's tumblr

they probably really hate the fact she was Tim's GF

[marhawkman]

It amuses me that the Jubilee option is that high in votes.

[HsssH]

Short story in DC Pride anthology. Thats his ceiling now.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Short story in DC Pride anthology. Thats his ceiling now.

Where they will just continue to say his relationship with Steph was "comphet" and **** on it/her

[WebLurker]

Where they will just continue to say his relationship with Steph was "comphet" and **** on it/her

Seems like, from what I've seen, Tim himself comes off worse in the actual execution.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Seems like, from what I've seen, Tim himself comes off worse in the actual execution.

He does because he comes across as two-faced and really self-centered/inconsiderate and like he's just using her to validate his new relationship to feel less bad about how he treated her.

[Jackalope89]

He does because he comes across as two-faced and really self-centered/inconsiderate and like he's just using her to validate his new relationship to feel less bad about how he treated her.

Which is a common trope amongst slash fanfics. Which only goes on to prove the point that the writer for him was simply a jumped up slash fanfic writer.

[ayanestar]

He does because he comes across as two-faced and really self-centered/inconsiderate and like he's just using her to validate his new relationship to feel less bad about how he treated her.

I'm pretty sure the writer was going for the usual fanfic trope of the ex-girlfriend being supportive and becoming best friends with her ex-boyfriends new partner, but the execution was horrible (just like most of her ideas). That trope is also usually used on characters that had an actual conversation about their relationship and parted on well terms.

In my opinion, Tim needs a break until they figure out what to do with him, but it's not just Tim. It feels like everyone in the Batfamily is currently struggling in one way or another. I have heard nothing positive about the current Batman event (and his solo seems to receive mixed responses), Dick is stuck with a writer more focused on butt jokes than writing an actual plot (but it's still selling well, so I guess that's what people want), Babs is just Dick's girlfriend now and has no agency anymore, Steph and Cass are written like pre-teens, Jason has the same issue as Tim where no writer seems to have an idea what to do with him, Duke might as well not exist at this point, Kate is doing nothing and Alfred is still dead. I guess Damian is doing alright right now, but they did try to turn him into a villain, so there is that. Outsiders might save Luke and Kate from obscurity at least, but who knows how long that will last.

Anyway, my point is that DC needs some editorial changes or something because Tim is not the only character currently struggling. In the current situation, I don't think "fixing" Tim is even a priority for DC.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Which is a common trope amongst slash fanfics. Which only goes on to prove the point that the writer for him was simply a jumped up slash fanfic writer.

Well given how she had Stephanie say meeting Bernard was the "best day ever" upon meeting him despite Tim doing it literally after just apologizing for dumping her, ghosting her, and being an ******* to her, and without even asking her first while she is still getting over him, had her later dance over Tim and Bernard being together, only interacts with him in his personal life when it comes to Bernard, and has Tim say how he was 'settling' before Bernard and still keeping Stephanie at a distance. Yeah.

There is also the choice of Bernard who was literally only picked because the writer thought he was "cute". It's telling as she has to make up this false history of them as close friends to sell the pairing rather than using what actually exists which was:

tim hate 2.jpg
tim hate 3.jpg
tim hate 4.jpg

it's eyerolling as she claims she 'loves Steph and thinks too highly of her to use her as a prop' yet does exactly that and makes Stephanie look like a pushover with no self-respect.

Their 'friendship' is frankly kind of toxic.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I'm pretty sure the writer was going for the usual fanfic trope of the ex-girlfriend being supportive and becoming best friends with her ex-boyfriends new partner, but the execution was horrible (just like most of her ideas). That trope is also usually used on characters that had an actual conversation about their relationship and parted on well terms.

In my opinion, Tim needs a break until they figure out what to do with him, but it's not just Tim. It feels like everyone in the Batfamily is currently struggling in one way or another. I have heard nothing positive about the current Batman event (and his solo seems to receive mixed responses), Dick is stuck with a writer more focused on butt jokes than writing an actual plot (but it's still selling well, so I guess that's what people want), Babs is just Dick's girlfriend now and has no agency anymore, Steph and Cass are written like pre-teens, Jason has the same issue as Tim where no writer seems to have an idea what to do with him, Duke might as well not exist at this point, Kate is doing nothing and Alfred is still dead. I guess Damian is doing alright right now, but they did try to turn him into a villain, so there is that. Outsiders might save Luke and Kate from obscurity at least, but who knows how long that will last.

Anyway, my point is that DC needs some editorial changes or something because Tim is not the only character currently struggling. In the current situation, I don't think "fixing" Tim is even a priority for DC.

They aren't even "best friends". Steph doesn't seem to still keep in regular contact with Bernard or even Tim. Tim only includes her in Bernard related stuff and that is all she interacts with him and it's not really an actual dynamic. It's just her being an over the top cheerleader in like 1 panel.

And yeah they didn't have an actual conversation or part on well terms. Like having Steph be this ultra supportive cheerleader after Tim treated her so badly and then introduces her to his ex without asking her, makes her a complete doormat and Tim so selfish especially as he still is keeping her at a distance and thinking/talking **** about her.


On Duke. He's the biggest example of tokenism at DC right now. He deserves so much better