Tim Drake where is his place in DC?

[Frontier]

Nothing wrong with that.

Well, hopefully with better writing if nothing else.

[Godlike13]

There was no reason to give it a chance, Rossmo's art is horrible and Fitzmartin's writing is tepid at best. You can't put two terrible creators on a book and then go, "See, no one likes the character." It has nothing to do with the character and everything to do with it being a terrible book.

It's okay if you don't personally like Tim Drake, I personally prefer Dick and Damian myself, but to pretend that there isn't an audience for Tim seems disingenuous to me.

Tim is suppose to be the reason if as you say there is an audience for him. They can put one of their highest paid creators, a great artist, surround him with his friends, and still audiences wont show up. The more no one shows up, the less they can afford to put more costly creators on him. But again these projects are launching flat. Audiences aren't even showing up to see if the art is bad, or writing mediocre. But generally speaking, a character doesn't need to have the best book that is being published for readers to show up. Especially if they have an audience. Its okay if you personally like Tim Drake, but nonetheless all the recent projects they have done with Tim have flopped. If there is an audience, then where are they exactly.

[thwhtGuardian]

Tim is suppose to be the reason if as you say there is an audience for him. They can put one of their highest paid creators, a great artist, surround him with his friends, and still audiences wont show up. The more no one shows up, the less they can afford to put more costly creators on him. But again these projects are launching flat. Audiences aren't even showing up to see if the art is bad, or writing mediocre. But generally speaking, a character doesn't need to have the best book being published for readers to show up. Especially if they have an audience.

Quality really is king, if the writing and art are bad a book is going to suffer. Period. And again, no one needed to show up to see, it was a known factor going in. I hate Rossmo's art, I didn't need to see more to see if it was worth getting more of and I'm not alone on that. And same with Fitzmartin.

It's laughable that you don't think an A-list creative team couldn't sell a Tim Drake book, for adults (which make up most of the comic audience) the creative team matters much more than the character. You put say Mark Waid and Dan Mora on a Tim Drake book and I guarantee it would sell. Pretty much the only books that sell no matter the quality of the team are Batman, Spider-Man and maybe X-Men because of hardcore competitionists but for any other book you need good talent.

Where did Tim Drake hurt you that you're willing to reject reality this hard?

[Godlike13]

Quality really is king, if the writing and art are bad a book is going to suffer. Period. And again, no one needed to show up to see, it was a known factor going in. I hate Rossmo's art, I didn't need to see more to see if it was worth getting more of and I'm not alone on that. And same with Fitzmartin.

It's laughable that you don't think an A-list creative team couldn't sell a Tim Drake book, for adults (which make up most of the comic audience) the creative team matters much more than the character. You put say Mark Waid and Dan Mora on a Tim Drake book and I guarantee it would sell. Pretty much the only books that sell no matter the quality of the team are Batman, Spider-Man and maybe X-Men because of hardcore competitionists but for any other book you need good talent.

Where did Tim Drake hurt you that you're willing to reject reality this hard?

An A-list creative team didn't sell a Tim Drake book. Rejecting reality is seeing flop after flop and still pretending it has nothing to do with the character. Quality isn't king, Ric did better then Tim's last series. A book might suffer if the writing and art are bad, but for that to even matter readers need to show up in the first place.

[thwhtGuardian]

An A-list creative team didn't sell a Tim Drake book. Rejecting reality is seeing flop after flop and still pretending it has nothing to do with the character. Quality isn't king, Ric did better then Tim's last series. A book might suffer if the writing and art are bad, but for that to even matter readers need to show up in the first place.

When did he last have an A-list creative ream?

He did well with Young Justice under Bendis, but that's a much different team than his recent solo.

Like I said, I didn't need to see more from Rossmo, the guy's art is just garbage so why would I need to buy the book and see it confirmed yet again?

[Godlike13]

When did he last have an A-list creative ream?

Like I said, I didn't need to see more from Rossmo, the guy's art is just garbage so why would I need to buy the book and see it confirmed yet again?

Young Justice. Which did not do well. And that's you, but Rossmo isn't really a known name. Generally speaking his name isn't just gonna put off initial orders.

[thwhtGuardian]

Young Justice. And that's great for you, but Rossmo isn't really a known name. Generally speaking his name isn't just gonna put off initial orders.

To anyone reading comics Rossmo is known and he isn't well liked. All you have to do is look at threads about Tim Drake when the book was announced to see just how many people were turned off out of the gate and the same was true of the recent Sandman book as well.

[Godlike13]

To anyone reading comics Rossmo is known and he isn't well liked. All you have to do is look at threads about Tim Drake when the book was announced to see just how many people were turned off out of the gate and the same was true of the recent Sandman book as well.

Threads about Tim Drake aren't indicative of the general audience. Most readers don't go on Tim Drake threads. Rossmo is only now sort of known after the spectacular failure that was Tim's last series, and he became Tim's fans newest scapegoat for why yet again the new project with him failed.

[thwhtGuardian]

Threads about Tim Drake aren't indicative of the general audience. Most readers don't go on Tim Drake threads. Rossmo is only now sort of known after the spectacular failure that was Tim's last series, and he became Tim's fans newest scapegoat for why yet again the new project with him failed.

It had a terrible creative team and it was know right from the get go. There is no scapegoat necessary.

Again, where did Tim Drake hurt you?

[Riv86672]

Get a good creative team; it doesn’t have to be “A-list” it just needs to be good (Saladin Ahmed and Javier Garron just throwing one out there).

Get Stephanie Brown back into Tim’s life as a recurring love interest.

[GreyFox]

I'm all in favor of retiring Tim Drake. While people can talk all they want about top talent, the industry is in a general decline, and Tim Drake has been in something of a decline since 2003 (there are some exceptions, but I am speaking of a general trend). Top talent is not something that can be applied to most books, and DC has no reason to favor Tim over other characters.

So Tim could be resuscitated, but he will not be. Give him a nice peaceful send-off to spare him further indignities (this will not happen either).

[Captain Britain of Earth 20]

I’m going 2 say a road trip through the dark multiverse with Conner Kent in fact they could join a new Challengers of Beyond which should have been a longer series of DC ever brings it back

[NOCTPHOENIX]

lllllllllll

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Nothing wrong with that.

That's part of the problem. Conceptually Bernard doesn't work at all.

In all seriousness. Tim should move past Robin for the reasons people said. He needs to really branch himself out and give him a unique niche. You can bring back the civilian life/hero life balance via making him go to college or have him continue what he was doing in Red Robin with the Neon Knights foundation. Showcase the growth he had during that era

[lemonpeace]

The very first thing DC needs to do is to get him out of this whole ''The Robin'' status they so desperately clinging to. They should give him something entirely different. Make him an independent hero in some other city, make a focus on some detective work. Or maybe, I don't know, send him working undercover in GCPD as a detective to uncover some conspiracy, something like Gotham Central, but starring Tim. I don't know, just get him out of this comfort zone for DC writers and some of his fans. Tim as Robin isn't going to work anymore, he's not targeting modern teenagers, they're not the same demographics DC was targeting with his character in the 90s, they don't give a ****.
Considering, that Damian is going to be Robin in DCU movies + there are rumors about Dick debuting and becoming Robin in Reeve's Batman sequel, there's no point to fight with inevitable. They have to reinvent the character, otherwise, he's done.

I'm all in favor of retiring Tim Drake. While people can talk all they want about top talent, the industry is in a general decline, and Tim Drake has been in something of a decline since 2003 (there are some exceptions, but I am speaking of a general trend). Top talent is not something that can be applied to most books, and DC has no reason to favor Tim over other characters.

So Tim could be resuscitated, but he will not be. Give him a nice peaceful send-off to spare him further indignities (this will not happen either).

my thoughts about Tim's direction are pretty much summed up here. DC are in a place with Tim where (as Morgoth pointed out) they are clinging onto this " he's The Robin" notion, despite the times showing that no one is clamoring for that. so no matter what they do with him going forward they need to read the room and move on. for that same reason I feel like "Red Robin" can not be an option either. I feel like part of the reason Tim's transition out of Robin never took off is because his most prominent hero identity outside of Robin was too derivative of the Robin identity.

at this point, they've reneged so much on his graduation into a new identity that the only plausible approach you can take for him is for him to just drop the cape entirely and just be a public identity character. have him become a PI, or one of the Batfamily's civilian allies, or simply just make him an adventurer who doesn't use a secret identity. of all the Robins/Batfamily Tim is the one who it makes THE MOST sense to hang up the cape. he became Robin because Bruce needed one but now he has a Robin as well as a ton of other caped allies under the Batfam banner; he doesn't necessarily need Tim anymore. with his initial mission and reason to pick up the cape resolved, why not give him the option to help the world another way?