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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    There have definitely been a lot of missed opportunities re: character-building relationship moments and important interactions we literally only have access to because of this era, which is disappointing. For me though the worst misfire of the whole thing has been trying to convince us Xavier has always been telekinetic instead of just saying he had The Five update his genome using the resurrection protocols. I also hoped The Six would play a bigger role in SWORD/X-Men Red but they seemed to just come and go. Justice for Risque.
    I just hate this as a Jean supremacist. Especially considering the one who started doing it went out of his way to nerf Jean.

  2. #47
    Incredible Member NicoPony's Avatar
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    Think the whole era could’ve used stronger editors, who shouldve said: instead of half-realizing 20 good concepts, let’s execute 3-4 excellent ideas. Get rid of Moira entirely, avoid retconning that character, and save us from two to three unnecessary crossover events, mostly SoS. Jean’s idea of a mutant nation in the OG XMen Red would’ve been a natural springboard to having an island nation, driven by a couple of ideologues. The convoluted time travel stuff, the various timelines, 10 different dystopian futures, the overpowered chimera, I didn’t need. Would’ve saved some room for mutant dissent and culture-building without that nonsense.

  3. #48
    Julian Keller Supremacy Rift's Avatar
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    Tbh if we go back to the old status quo, I don't even care if the next era has good writing. It's really disheartening to leave an era where the mutants having a good, exciting time where they thrive. It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better than what was going on immediately before. It's not fun to read and just be miserable all the time - I mean, look at Spider-Man right now. And even if the status quo is more positive and forward-facing than what we're used to, I don't think I can enjoy the steps forward without the underlying cynicism of "Why bother expecting any progress? Especially if any progress they make will likely never be as good as Krakoa?"

    I mentioned in another thread, but if I were a mutant in the MU, seeing the entire world comply with my genocide and our leaders let me down nearly every single time, I'd have no hope. Tbh I'd probably kill flatscans out of spite, knowing that I'm doomed either way. But tbh my solution to everything is either "add Hellion" or "kill flatscans."

    And tbh, it's become an issue with Marvel as a whole, but it's connected to my cynicism with a post-Krakoa era and I really gotta rant about it. Everything, from characters to friendships to romances to status quos, is watered down or warped to fit whatever is needed at the moment. Everything new is either rushed or forced as the writers scramble to make their mark, but it's all washed away the second they're not looking. Why bother caring about anything when it feels like Marvel doesn't care?

    Which is very overdramatic of me, I know. But still. It's hard to hope for the best when you're expecting the worst. Even during the Krakoa era, every event had us asking "are you going to drop the bomb or not?"

    Quote Originally Posted by NicoPony View Post
    Think the whole era could’ve used stronger editors, who shouldve said: instead of half-realizing 20 good concepts, let’s execute 3-4 excellent ideas. Get rid of Moira entirely, avoid retconning that character, and save us from two to three unnecessary crossover events, mostly SoS. Jean’s idea of a mutant nation in the OG XMen Red would’ve been a natural springboard to having an island nation, driven by a couple of ideologues. The convoluted time travel stuff, the various timelines, 10 different dystopian futures, the overpowered chimera, I didn’t need. Would’ve saved some room for mutant dissent and culture-building without that nonsense.
    Tbh I'd be super against that. A lot of Krakoa's appeal for me, came from the unsavory elements. I can see why people are against the Moira change, but I really loved her backstory and role up until the robot crap. I loved the time travel and sci-fi themes, the doomed futures, all the mystery and intrigue baked into the nation's founding. I loved the underlying darkness to the world, and the meta-narratives. Half the fun of the early days was sussing out the mysteries and trying to figure out how the pieces fit together. If it was just Jean's passion project, it wouldn't be nearly as intriguing or fun.
    Last edited by Rift; 10-24-2023 at 03:37 PM.
    2023: The Year of Hellion

  4. #49
    Julian Keller Supremacy Rift's Avatar
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    Anyway, gonna piggyback off the others and post my thoughts on each phase of Krakoa.

    Dawn of X
    HoX/PoX - Baby, you are perfect. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

    HiX-Men I liked it. As a standard flagship, it's lacking the team dynamic, story structure and fun. But it wasn't meant to be that, and that's okay. It was our introduction to Krakoa's world and it was really engaging. Tbh I wish we kept a book like this going. Have an X-Men team, but have a book that touches on Krakoa's aspects and worldbuilding. And honestly, even as an Emma stan, the Hordiculture made history when they said her p-word stank.

    Marauders, vol 1: Women supporting women! Even at the expense of every other character, including other women. While the Emma/Kitty/Shaw drama was fun, I don't like how this book went from pirate X-Men, to The Kitty and Emma Show, featuring Shaw, guest starring that one Hellfire brat, kinda sorta including Bishop, and also the Marauders are there & talking about how they love Kitty.

    Excalibur: We all know what went right and wrong here. But I think it was fairly peachy Post-XoS, when it jettisoned more of its cast and settled down to focus on smaller stories. The back end of the book doesn't get enough credit.

    Pre-Ayala New Mutants: Tbh I didn't care for it. The space half was more structured, but Hickman's comedy was so forced and I didn't care about the Brood. Wish we got a more serious, Sunspot-lead space odyssey instead. I didn't care at all about the other half outside of Beak and his family appearing. Like the whole line was swinging big and bold, and then you just had a bog-standard story, with Glob.

    X-Force: I didn't care for it, even before it went to crap. Like I'm sure the issues were good, but I wasn't vibing with it. I didn't like the vibe. Other than that, we all know how this book went down. I'm still at the candlelight vigil for Mungho's hopes and dreams.

    Wolverine: Didn't read it. I considered going back and checking it out, since later-era Perc-verine can be pretty neat. But also, effort.

    Fallen Angels: LOL.

    Cable: Didn't read it outside of the Castor and Pollux issue. But I skimmed that X-Terminators one-shot and thought it was cool.

    Giant-Size X-Men: I didn't read these.

    Hellions: Didn't read it until X of Swords, where it ended up winning me over. Easily one of Krakoa's best books.

    X-Factor: - I really liked it. You had a solid cast that bounced off each other well, and the focus was spread out well between everyone. You had engaging mysteries that felt really meaningful to the characters around them, and you had closure to old characters and stories in a way that was accessible to new readers. I will never not be pissed about how this book was cancelled before we got the Krakoa pantheon, because that's the kind of worldbuilding Krakoa really needed. I wasn't a fan of Polaris' arc and the comedy was bad, but overall it was really solid. Plus you got Hellion's only Krakoa-era speaking role, in which he said six whole words! (He also said, "No. Sorry, Bling!" in an Unlimited issue, but that was OOC.)

    X of Swords: The family drama was fun, the lore was cool, the new characters were neat. It was a fun gateway into the Otherworld story, if you're like me and lost interest in Excalibur. I also got bored with the sword-gathering half, but Wolverine, Cypher and Storm got good stories out of it, so okay. The tournament itself was pretty fun. I tend to hate lolrandom events, but the sheer absurdity of some of the tournament was hilarious.

    Overall Dawn of X: Precious baby.

    --
    Reign of X

    SWORD: Tbh I skipped out on the Knull tie-in stuff so I missed a big part of the book. But I liked the rest of it. Especially Wiz-Kid.

    Ayala New Mutants: The drama was fun, characters were utilized well, you had old stories and drama used to push characters in a meaningful direction, and aside from some weird elements (No-Girl's questionable "The X-men don't understand me and won't give me a new body! I'm willfully ignoring the Crucible and the fact that body-editing is already a thing in order for this plot to work out, even though Cosmar's doing the same story but better") But the glacial pacing and wonky release schedule killed a lot of my interest. I tapped out at the Labor of Magik arc. Also, we needed more Cannonball.

    Children of the Atom: Okay, so you have so many beloved characters in limbo, a nation that's desperate social reform, and a story that needs a lot more worldbuilding. What do you do? Focus on some pissant twerps who barely connect to anything and ultimately amounted to nothing. Not even their "insight into humans who support mutants" angles meant anything, imo. You could say that as its own thing, it could still be interesting. But I found all the characters very cliche and one-note. I only liked two characters - the redhead and his stepbrother; and that's because their focus issues were able to build on each other. I didn't care for Carmen, but I remember a couple of people off-forum calling her Gambitch before her real codename was revealed. And I know it was meant as an insult, but I would take that name in a heartbeat if I became a Gambit variant.

    Way of X/The Onslaught Agenda: It was a fun little story for what it was. I had some problems with the lore additions, like how only nameless people are following the Make More Mutants rule, and also they somehow popped out eight trillion babies in less than a year. Also Dust basically shitting on the quality of Mars' terraforming by saying they missed something huge, it came out of nowhere and didn't feel like it was addressing a pre-existing issue; it felt like one was created in the story just to make Krakoa look bad. The blase look at death felt more like a natural extension of Krakoa's new culture and immortality, though I'm mixed on having it all tied to Onslaught in the end.

    But the book had three fantastic things going for it: it sank the awful Mercury/Bling! ship, it gave us Soft Serve, and Hellion had a cameo. Iconic and appreciated.

    X-Corp: Monet was so insufferable here. And not only was she insufferable, but she felt pretty stupid and short-sided at times. We got Wind Dancer back, but we also got the return of Trinary. Warren was cool here. Other than that, bad book.

    Duggan-Men: I had high hopes for this book, since you had a good cast, one-off stories and a traditional book that didn't feel like a regression. But by issue 6, the flaws were becoming painfully clear. I liked Synch's bigger role and focus, but I hated the Synch/Laura stuff and members of the team were falling by the wayside. It was a character-focused book that was screwing over many of its characters. The problem only got worse as it went along.

    Unlimited: Throwing this in here. Aside from some gems, it's been painfully mid all the way through. Then you got X-Men Green's first arc, which was so trashy that it ended up being great. But then every arc after that was either trying too hard to be silly, or was an just annoying attempt at course-correction.

    Hellfire Gala: I loved this event. The costumes, the setting, the energy and excitement - all on point, except for Iceman's crappy dress. I really liked the idea of this one party where all the books intersected, without it derailing the stories of the books involved. The Gala was a nice backdrop for events. But the Hellions won this event.

    Planet Sized X-Men: Loved it.

    Trial of Magneto: It was a lot better on a reread, but overall it was a flop.

    Inferno: DOUG HYPE. Overall, it felt like it didn't have an exciting ending, nor did it feel like a bold new direction for the books going forward. I also feel like Destique got away with too much of their crap and didn't get called out enough - like what Magsavier did was shady, but Destique got away with their shenanigans, and I'd argue they did way more damage in the long run. But issues 1 and 3 were peak, and the Doug climax was insane. The book left me loving Cypher and waiting for more moves from our secret chessmaster... which we didn't end up getting, oop.

    Overall Reign of X: The ongoings were going strong or flopping along, but a lot of the new books were hit-or-miss. The cracks were starting to show, but overall, I was pretty happy about this era.


    And I hit the word limit, so I'm breaking up my post. Sorry about the tl;dr, but I like X-Men.
    2023: The Year of Hellion

  5. #50
    Julian Keller Supremacy Rift's Avatar
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    Destiny of X
    The Wolverine Event: I didn't like it.

    Immortal X-Men: Judgment Day derailed the book. We needed more focus on the Council and Krakoa, not some outside threat. Yeah, we got a good insight into many of their characters, but we had that before, without the kaiju and Avenger's stupid robot thing. But the rest of the book was really cool! I liked it. And imagine my absolute shock and amazement at twhen Destiny defies Sinister's predictions. You just knew things were going to go down and it was going to be crazy.

    Judgment Day: This is a Katrina hate account. I didn't like this event and it went on for way too freaking long. But at least we got Tom out of it. He was cute. I'm glad he wasn't racist.

    Orlando's Marauders: Overall, the team was better and the writing was stronger. But I think Orlando focused on the wrong stuff. I didn't care about the Shi'ar's stupid mysteries, and while the proto-mutants were interesting, I'd have much rather gotten Krakoa development, instead of wasting time on some nation that never mattered, and background on two obscure villains most people didn't even like. I appreciate the attempt, and I love that Orlando swung big... But I was here for pirate adventures, not a space odyssey. It wasn't the place for this story, and this story took away from what could have been one of Krakoa's best character-driven books.

    X-Men Red:

    Knights of X: Betsy was neat. Rachel was neat. I liked the twist with Mordred. But it felt like much of its cast was underused. Like they clearly included most of them just so round out the numbers and justify the X=10 pun title. But it had a ginger with a beard. So much like Tom in J-Day, I can't truly come to dislike this story.

    Legion of X: After 10 issues, I got so sick of listening to Legion's daddy's issues. If he were my kid, I'd hate him too. I also felt like the Altar stuff was just a dumb little niche that didn't need to be there, and most other writers not even touching it was a pretty telling sign of how well it meshed with the rest of the nation and story. But I loved the idea of healing and looking deeper into others. The cast was really fun, the ideas were there, and the Legion was a nice addition to Krakoa. It felt pretty rushed by the end, but we all know why.

    Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain: I ended up dropping it, but I don't think it's a bad book. It just wasn't vibing for me. And I missed Rictor.

    X-Terminators: This was silly, stupid fun. I loved it. Leah Williams understands what I want: sexploitation, scathing burns, violence, and over-the-top insanity. It satisfies the "craving chaos" and "craving boobie" parts of my unga-bunga caveman brain. I know this is a weird comparison, since they're wildly different beasts from each other, but has anyone seen Kevin Spencer? That's one of my favorite shows, and the book reminded me of it. Just something not afraid to be unabashedly weird, messy and fun.

    Bishop: War College: The review threads were more fun to read than the actual book. Also, Surge worked her ass off and was robbed of the perfect grade. She put in a lot of effort, took control and fought well on the front lines, and Wrongslide - who appeared halfway through and barely did anything - got better marks? That was targeted harassment, and they were targeting me specifically. But we did get a black Hellion out of the AU, so 8/10.

    Sins of Sinister: It was a neat little thing. I felt like Ewing's story was the weakest of the three, and the Nightcrawler's stuff was kinda eh. But overall, it was a cool little side-thing. I'd be more receptive to events if they were shorter and didn't derail all the books I cared about.

    Sabretooth/Exiles: It was pretty cool, though I feel like we were robbed of Oya's story. That needed more development, and as a youth who was largely defined by her innocence and trauma, Oya's turn to proud murder warranted more examination. Exiles was less good, because it was less of a character study, and more of a standard adventure with some boring-ass villains.

    Overall Destiny of X: Didn't care for it. Things felt more disjointed and there was even less of an effort to flesh things out. "Treading water" was a phrase I'd seen a lot on the forums during this era - the books were playing it safe until after JD, until after SoS, until Fall of X. I also saw "holding pattern" thrown around a lot. These phrases also appeared near the tail-end of Reign, but it felt more obvious with this phase.

    --

    Fall of X
    I'm not reading it.

    Overall Fall of X: No.
    2023: The Year of Hellion

  6. #51
    Fantastic Member Til's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    Fall of X
    I'm not reading it.

    Overall Fall of X: No.
    Why no Fall of X?

  7. #52
    Incredible Member JamJams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    This is such a fun idea! Dropping mine below:


    Overall Fall of X - Turns out the Fall of X was actually the Fall of my interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    For me, Dawn of X and Reign of X were really solid, and Destiny of X is where I started to get a bit bored. Fall of X has piqued my interest again, as I do love seeing the X-men on the run with their backs against the wall and doing underground resistance $#!t.

    Nothing else worth talking about in terms of my personal enjoyment of the books. That's it for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    Anyway, gonna piggyback off the others and post my thoughts on each phase of Krakoa.

    And I hit the word limit, so I'm breaking up my post. Sorry about the tl;dr, but I like X-Men.


    These were very enlightening posts! It's neat to see which books people picked up and how they felt about them through each phase. Definately a common theme in interest dipping its lowest with Fall of X so I guess them deciding to wrap it up after this phase is not a terrible one.

    Thank you all for sharing so far!
    Last edited by JamJams; 10-24-2023 at 07:24 PM.

  8. #53
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    I was given probation from hell to come back and do this.

    Part 1 of 2

    Dawn of X

    HOX/POX/Hickman X-men: These are all the same blasted book. Good ideas, not so great execution. I don't think the worldbuilding of Krakoa ever got to the level it should have, and that you didn't need to force a retcon that affects every X-comic ever written before it to make this idea work. So much setup in this book never got a payoff either, which, while not the book's fault, does end up reflecting on it. Omega Sentinel went from a serious deal to the eight-most senior member of Orchis playing second fiddle to Sinister 2.0, Nimrod, and Stilt Man for all I know. Oh also the Crucible existed and sparked many arguments over what exactly constitutes moral pillars of culture in the portion of the internet I was in before I discovered this place.

    Maruders: Disapointed. Ditched an interesting premise very early on, Shaw's presence on the QC makes about as much sense as Apocalypse and Mystique and that was before he kept on trying to kill Kitty. The villains were honestly some of the worst of this era, only saved by the fact that Dawn of X only had a few good ones. Seriously, the Hellfire Brats are annoying. So is racist Chinese business lady who can languish with racist British mage order and racist guy in an trunk from X-factor. Started the trend of the X-books having oversized casts they just don't use properly.

    Excalibur: Uneven. Very uneven. The first half is bogged down by the secret main character Apocalypse who only Gambit has doubts about for some reason, villains who were not that interesting and didn't really have the commentary I think they were intended to have, and intending to feed into X of Swords. Back half was better but not really something I'd go out of my way to find.

    X-factor: Honestly enjoyed it a fair bit, thought it was fun, thought the cast was good, felt like it got canceled before it could really go anywhere though. Also not a fan of redeemed Dakken who is occupying the Jason Todd slot and being a cool big bro to the Wolvie family. (I swear there's an Orchis member out there who joined just to get revenge on Dakken for very good reasons). But outside that nagging detail I enjoyed it. Trial of Magneto I think was a poorly executed rush job forced by cancellation and a desire to shove too much into a short number of issues.

    X-Force: At first I really enjoyed it. Had some cool concepts, some cool villains, I really thought they were going to dive real deep into the potential horror and existentialism of the resurrection protocols with Domino. Then the book began to drag, and drag, and the Beast being evil CIA director plot went on way too long and helped cement my impression of the Quiet Council as not only Authoritarian scum, but incompetent Authoritarian scum as well.

    Wolverine: Was generally enjoyable whenever I caught up with it.

    Cable: Didn't read, but occasionally heard the muffled screams of rage from those threads I can only assume was Jackarrow

    New Mutants: Sorry, this book was dead to me the moment you had a native American character indirectly **** on her own heritage. The space stuff was fun but ultimately not really impactful enough for me to really get into.

    Fallen Angels: I keep forgetting this existed.

    Hellions: Very enjoyable overall. Probably the best one quality-wise

    X of Swords: Killed the era's momentum by itself. Long, not well paced, overstretched, introduced a whole host of characters to a franchise that already has way too many characters, focuses on a character who I feel should be treated in-universe like Hitler considering how many times he's attempted genocide, and a tournament arc that did not feel well executed from shifting rules to being one team versus the other to the Arrakki ranging from decent to meh.

    Overall score of Dawn of X books I enjoyed out of those I remember reading (Or remember at all in the case of Fallen Angels): 3.5/9 (The .5 is Xforce, 9 if we count Hixmen/Hox/Pox as one book). Books I hated out of those I remember reading: 2.5/9

    Reign of X

    Hellions: Remained very good throughout.

    Way of X: Was pretty enjoyable, had some issues, Onslaught honestly felt necessary and the Spark remains pretty unfleshed out for me. Also was the beginning of the "Oh no, they've ruined Krakoa by listening to the haters" books which was amusing at a distance when people got upset over Krakoa being hinted to have any problems. Does feel like many Dawn of X books in that it has a decoy protagonist and who the author actually wanted. (This with Nightcrawler/Legion, Excalibur with Betsy/Apocalypse. Maruders with Kate/Emma)

    Aayla New Mutants: Was enjoyable overall and finally addressed the X-men leaving No-girl in a glass brain tube for decades. Some arcs felt a bit long, and I think the really dumb trend of having things that should have and could have happened on-page happen in data pages started here.

    X-corp: Not sure what anyone was thinking here. Girlboss Selene was funny for being so unironic. Having her and Dapper Mastermind be on X-corps board of director while Indian Progressive Hacker Trinary has to sit in the cold because she was a robin hood once was amusing in the "Wow, you actually went there" way, due to being so over the top it felt like they had to be having a laugh unlike some other entries on this list.

    Wolverine: Was alright whenever I randomly checked in

    Children of the Atom: I enjoyed this book, and thought it was pretty decent. Ultimately not much impact though

    SWORD: Good book, and Ewing in which was pretty nice.

    Duggan X-men: Had Laura Synch which I didn't like, had some pretty apparent flaws pretty quickly. Was overall okay.

    X-force: pacing was atrocious. Beast is a caricature. Percy cannot juggle this many plots and keep forward momentum up. The idea of mutant CIA hits it's nadir when Beast is being comically evil and inept in a way that would make Trump blush and still isn't being replaced because the Quiet Council are somehow even more incompetent.

    Hellfire Gala: Mostly meh. Not a big fan of high fashion, the interactions were neat and fun but assigning a hard date for events to pass by at was a mistake.

    Planet-Sized Xmen: Pretty good

    Inferno: An abbreviated, awful way to end for Hickman. Honestly it's greatest sin is that despite being his departure it did very little to actually resolve his plots, including the randomness of Moira cure.

    Enjoyed: 7 Hated: 3

    Destiny of X

    X Bubs of Wolverine: Didn't have any business occupying the space between Inferno and Reign proper

    X Snikts of Wolverine: This is the direction they want to go with Moira? Seriously?

    Immortal X-men: Good book. Gillen did a good job with this, and overall remained a good read.

    Red: Ewing remains good even if I oppose the idea of Arrakki on principle.

    Maruders: I already don't like introducing massive new number of mutants to an already extremely bloated cast, especially when they don't add much. I don't like secret fallen empires in the distant past that keep on layering on top of each other because different authors keep on adding new ones. I really don't like Cassandra Nova. Stryfe was in this for no reason. The Shi'ar bits I think were never even needed. The ending did it's best to make up for it but ultimately this was a dud. Also I wanted a Pterygotus and got nothing

    Knights of X: Have given more slack over time but I don't like the Mordred stuff (Sorry, I am a continuity person), I didn't like nerfing characters like Jaspers and the Fury, I feel this kind of exploration of the Arthur Mythos was being done at the same time much more effectively by Once and Future, and it just didn't click. Rachel and Betsy getting together was nice but felt very ancillary to the story as a whole.

    Legion of X: Rushed due to no fault of its own, had a fun cast that just didn't have the time to shine, generic Orchis remains generic orchis. The Legion-Charles stuff has really reached the point of me just wanting a conclusion. Either have them make up or one of them shanks the other already. I still don't like the Spark. Sue me. I need the money

    X-terminators: Goody trashy fun

    Captain Betsy Braddock: I burned out on the Otherworlds saga at this point. Might try this at some point.

    Sabretooth: Honestly the best one of the bunch, a really good examination of the characters and the issues of Krakoa. Exiles was less good but still fun.

    Sins of Sinister: Has Sinister been the most enjoyable villain of this entire era, starting with Dawn? Yes. Was everyone waiting for the other shoe to drop regarding him? Yes. Was the Quiet Council thinking they could outsmart his inevitable betrayal one of their dumbest moves? No, because they have a lot of ones mining the depths of stupidity even more. Did that all make this miniseries worth it? Eh

    Enjoyed: 5 Hated: 4 (Honestly should be 3 because X Beer/X Cigars of Wolverine are short enough to be combined)

  9. #54
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    Fall of X

    Hellfire Gala: Kind of ironically funny in that voted in the most diverse X-men roster yet and immediately squashed them with the symbol of [STRIKETHROUGH]marvel Editorial[/STRIKETHROUGH] [STRIKETHROUGH]Corporate Greed[/STRIKETHROUGH] [STRIKETHROUGH]Frack having actual minorities be the face of this franchise[/STRIKETHROUGH] Orchis

    Miss Marvel: Always was going to be weighed down by the nature of her death. It's alright, but the Emma lecturing of "You don't know true prejudice" to the person who probably endured post 9/11 America Islamophobia gets a bit grating. (You know Bush secretly appropriated and reprogrammed Sentinels to enforce the Patriot Act).

    Invincible Iron Man: It's okay but not anything I'd go out of my way to get.

    X-men Red: My love of Ewing is marred by my hatred of anything involving Apocalypse and his genocidal family.

    Realm of X: Literally had to be reminded by people on this forum on when issues were supposed to come out

    X-men: Marks me officially giving up on if Duggan hates Firestar or not.

    Children of the Vault: Pretty decent but feels like it's not living up to the hype.

    Immortal: It's Okay

    Dark X-men: Pass

    X-Force: Finish. A. Plot. Point. ARRGH

    Uncanny Spiderman:

    Oh, and bonus round, the Unlimited and miscellaneous stuff and arcs I read and remembered

    Krakoan language arc: I honestly still can't believe they got away with the idea of saying languages exist to separate and make people dislike each other. Mother-effer, we have enough issues with people having tried to eliminate languages as part of ethnic cleansing and cultural erasure in the past, I am not dealing with social progressives deciding to do the same thing because "Nazi's spoke german, thereby tainting the very use of german", which this book seriously contended as an argument.

    Maggot arc: Pretty good

    GREEN I genuinely think Marville might be better than this by virtue of at least initially not being meant to be taken seriously.

  10. #55
    Fantastic Member Icefanatic's Avatar
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    I don't know when I started to hate Cyclops and Emma, it made reading X-Men tough when they became the faces of the franchise. It probably stated a bit under Morrison with the affair, before that I liked Cyclops and Emma was a favorite. I mostly hated the Utopia era. Scott started to surround himself with 'reformed' villains and ignored the council of friends. He threatened to destroy San Fransisco if the Mayor didn't capitulate to him. Emma gifted him with the memories of a serial killer so he could enjoy the sense memories of cannibalism. I started to recoil every time I saw them. Worse, my favorite characters got marginalized in favor of those I couldn't stand.

    Then Cyclops went 'Che Guevara', or 'Hitler' depending on who you asked. And we got Schism which separated the good from the bad. So at least I had a team of X-Men I could see as heroes again. Then we got the '05' from the past, which stared out great but they were different than how they were originally depicted in a variety of ways, and then the adult versions got changed to match them with no explanations for any of that. Then wide swaths of characters started to get more and more off from the people fans knew and loved. Books seemed to be happening in different timelines with no explanation other than that 'time was broken'.

    Then the books seemed to just flounder, torn between nostalgic rehashes that actually served to highlight the wrongness, and events that became impossible to care about. And then we got Krakoa.

    Krakoa started off with wild inventions but also massive seeming contradictions to characters and history. Everything wrong before Krakoa had now been dialed up to an absolute eleven, with the shiny and the new to distract from it. So many characters were now so off it was impossible to believe they were even the same people. The personal relationships that had been a hallmark of the franchise for decades were mostly ignored as characters became chess-pieces moved around a board, probably because it made all the massive changes to characters and seeming alterations to continuity easier to hand-wave away or outright just ignore.

    The X-Men now rejected their lifelong goal of coexistence for Mutant Separatism and Mutant Supremacy. The X-Men now functioned like a cult. Fans were anxious for answers. Were they all being mind controlled? Were we witnessing an alternate reality?

    Instead of explanations of all the massive wrongness and a correction of it, we just got more of it. Piles of it with no end in sight, year after year after year.

    Stories from comic shops have made their way into the press in recent months, stores where 60% or more of their X-Men subscribers, mostly people who have been subscribers for 10+ years, cancelled all their X-Men subscriptions this year because they have finally had enough. I was one of them.

    I came back for the 'Fall' because it looks as if all the fundamental wrongness will finally be addressed, finally explained and hopefully finally fixed. If not, I'm gone and I'm not coming back and a lot of other fans will be doing the same.

  11. #56
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    Cable: Didn't read, but occasionally heard the muffled screams of rage from those threads I can only assume was Jackraow
    You are correct. That was me. But I was hardly muffled.
    “Not as good as I once was… but I’m as good, once, as I ever was.”

  12. #57
    All-New Member kazdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icefanatic View Post
    I don't know when I started to hate Cyclops and Emma, it made reading X-Men tough when they became the faces of the franchise. It probably stated a bit under Morrison with the affair, before that I liked Cyclops and Emma was a favorite. I mostly hated the Utopia era. Scott started to surround himself with 'reformed' villains and ignored the council of friends. He threatened to destroy San Fransisco if the Mayor didn't capitulate to him. Emma gifted him with the memories of a serial killer so he could enjoy the sense memories of cannibalism. I started to recoil every time I saw them. Worse, my favorite characters got marginalized in favor of those I couldn't stand.

    Then Cyclops went 'Che Guevara', or 'Hitler' depending on who you asked. And we got Schism which separated the good from the bad. So at least I had a team of X-Men I could see as heroes again. Then we got the '05' from the past, which stared out great but they were different than how they were originally depicted in a variety of ways, and then the adult versions got changed to match them with no explanations for any of that. Then wide swaths of characters started to get more and more off from the people fans knew and loved. Books seemed to be happening in different timelines with no explanation other than that 'time was broken'.

    Then the books seemed to just flounder, torn between nostalgic rehashes that actually served to highlight the wrongness, and events that became impossible to care about. And then we got Krakoa.

    Krakoa started off with wild inventions but also massive seeming contradictions to characters and history. Everything wrong before Krakoa had now been dialed up to an absolute eleven, with the shiny and the new to distract from it. So many characters were now so off it was impossible to believe they were even the same people. The personal relationships that had been a hallmark of the franchise for decades were mostly ignored as characters became chess-pieces moved around a board, probably because it made all the massive changes to characters and seeming alterations to continuity easier to hand-wave away or outright just ignore.

    The X-Men now rejected their lifelong goal of coexistence for Mutant Separatism and Mutant Supremacy. The X-Men now functioned like a cult. Fans were anxious for answers. Were they all being mind controlled? Were we witnessing an alternate reality?

    Instead of explanations of all the massive wrongness and a correction of it, we just got more of it. Piles of it with no end in sight, year after year after year.

    Stories from comic shops have made their way into the press in recent months, stores where 60% or more of their X-Men subscribers, mostly people who have been subscribers for 10+ years, cancelled all their X-Men subscriptions this year because they have finally had enough. I was one of them.

    I came back for the 'Fall' because it looks as if all the fundamental wrongness will finally be addressed, finally explained and hopefully finally fixed. If not, I'm gone and I'm not coming back and a lot of other fans will be doing the same.
    Is this a parody post?

  13. #58
    Fantastic Member Icefanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazdam View Post
    Is this a parody post?
    No. Why would you even think it was?

  14. #59
    Incredible Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icefanatic View Post
    The X-Men now rejected their lifelong goal of coexistence for Mutant Separatism and Mutant Supremacy. The X-Men now functioned like a cult. Fans were anxious for answers. Were they all being mind controlled? Were we witnessing an alternate reality?

    Instead of explanations of all the massive wrongness and a correction of it, we just got more of it. Piles of it with no end in sight, year after year after year.

    Stories from comic shops have made their way into the press in recent months, stores where 60% or more of their X-Men subscribers, mostly people who have been subscribers for 10+ years, cancelled all their X-Men subscriptions this year because they have finally had enough. I was one of them.

    I came back for the 'Fall' because it looks as if all the fundamental wrongness will finally be addressed, finally explained and hopefully finally fixed. If not, I'm gone and I'm not coming back and a lot of other fans will be doing the same.
    Unfortunately, you're not gonna get that.

    Fall of X is not interested in examining what Mutants, as a species or as a nation, should be doing.

    Instead, it is merely interested in wallowing in the idea of Orchis/Humanity = Bad, scrappy Mutants on edge of extinction = Good.
    There is no greater philosophical meaning or theme that is being written about here (and no, the seemingly overarching theme of "Quest for Dominion" does not say anything about what mutant goals should be).

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member danielsan52's Avatar
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    Wish we would have seen more of the OG Hellions as well as their reunion with Emma.
    TO KNOW HER IS TO FEAR HER: JESSICA DREW THE SPIDER-WOMAN
    BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE NEW 2024 SPIDER-WOMAN SERIES by STEVE FOXE!!!

    MISSING:
    Synch's Aura
    Northstar and Aurora's shiny hair
    Spider-Woman’s cowl costume

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