VILLAINS! Your Thoughts On: CHEETAH!

[Raiden]

That's because the Dc people can't let Diana's villains be threatening. She can be shown threaten and be interesting. This is why I find Priscilla. Also look at Barbara origin her's is the opposites of Diana's

She doesn't have to threaten anyone to be interesting, Ares was pretty powerful dude, he killed high-father and hades but there was more to the character. Rucka wrote a very interesting and powerful Ares, Rucka's cheetah had depth to her character too but even then she wasn't as intriguing as Ares. It was Gail who brought down Ares, she had wonder woman split his head in two, powergirl and genocide fared better than Ares against Wonder Woman.

[AmiMizuno]

She doesn't have to threaten anyone to be interesting, Ares was pretty powerful dude, he killed high-father and hades but there was more to the character. Rucka wrote a very interesting and powerful Ares, Rucka's cheetah had depth to her character too but even then she wasn't as intriguing as Ares. It was Gail who brought down Ares, she had wonder woman split his head in two, powergirl and genocide fared better than Ares against Wonder Woman.

How would you made her interesting

[daBronzeBomma]

Ah geez, WHY did the CBR Crisis have to wipe out the non-dillweed threads?? We had this whole movement going for Cheetah on the "old" boards! The C.A.T.C.A.V.E. ("Committee Advancing The Cheetah Among Villains Everywhere" ... or something like that, I didn't save anything) with it's 8 Goals; The Cheetah Vs Everybody tournament (100 female villains enter, 1 exit victorious ... we were down to the Final Four after 8 DisQualifying rounds and yes, Cheetah was one of the four finalists); we even had our own mantra #chooseCheetah!

And now we have to start all over again from scratch? All that work for nothing

I don't suppose anyone saved some of the old Cheetah appreciation thread stuff? Like the list of 100 female villains or what the 8 goals of the CATCAVE were?

Man, this sucks ...

[Thor2014]

I love the Cheetah, I hope she becomes a major player in Wonder Woman's book after Azz leaves. Johns laid some solid groundwork in his two-part Justice League story.

[Raiden]

How would you made her interesting

Read Wonder Woman #222 blood debt.

[Hoosier X]

Ah geez, WHY did the CBR Crisis have to wipe out the non-dillweed threads?? We had this whole movement going for Cheetah on the "old" boards! The C.A.T.C.A.V.E. ("Committee Advancing The Cheetah Among Villains Everywhere" ... or something like that, I didn't save anything) with it's 8 Goals; The Cheetah Vs Everybody tournament (100 female villains enter, 1 exit victorious ... we were down to the Final Four after 8 DisQualifying rounds and yes, Cheetah was one of the four finalists); we even had our own mantra #chooseCheetah!

And now we have to start all over again from scratch? All that work for nothing

I don't suppose anyone saved some of the old Cheetah appreciation thread stuff? Like the list of 100 female villains or what the 8 goals of the CATCAVE were?

Man, this sucks ...

I suspect that disrupting the C.A.T.C.A.V.E. goals was the real reason for the CBR Massacre. The rest of comicdom just can't bear to see the Cheetah becoming a success!!

Choose Cheetah!

[Charmed]

Ah geez, WHY did the CBR Crisis have to wipe out the non-dillweed threads?? We had this whole movement going for Cheetah on the "old" boards! The C.A.T.C.A.V.E. ("Committee Advancing The Cheetah Among Villains Everywhere" ... or something like that, I didn't save anything) with it's 8 Goals; The Cheetah Vs Everybody tournament (100 female villains enter, 1 exit victorious ... we were down to the Final Four after 8 DisQualifying rounds and yes, Cheetah was one of the four finalists); we even had our own mantra #chooseCheetah!

And now we have to start all over again from scratch? All that work for nothing

I don't suppose anyone saved some of the old Cheetah appreciation thread stuff? Like the list of 100 female villains or what the 8 goals of the CATCAVE were?

Man, this sucks ...

I am hereby, semi-facetiously, forming the Committee Advancing The Cheetah Among Villains Everywhere ... also known as the CATCAVE (yes, it took a while sitting here at work to come up with that acronym).

What is the CATCAVE all about, you may ask? To which I may reply Really? You didn't bother to read the the above statement?

OK, seriously, what is this CATCAVE all about? Well, we adhere to 8 particular goals regarding the Cheetah.



The First Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "You Do Not Talk About Fight Clu-" (ahem) ... "The Cheetah alone is Wonder Woman's Arch-Enemy."



The Second Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "The Cheetah ALONE is Wonder Woman's Arch-Enemy!"



The Third Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "If Wonder Woman is the Greatest Female Super-Hero Ever, then The Cheetah is the Greatest Female Super-Villain Ever."



The Fourth Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "Since only there is only one Wonder Woman, there is only one Cheetah."



The Fifth Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "Whatever the scope of Wonder Woman's heroic role is (global/etc) in nature, thus the scope of The Cheetah's villainous objectives are likewise (global/etc) in nature."



The Sixth Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "If Wonder Woman is one third of the Heroic Trinity at DC alongside Superman and Batman, then The Cheetah is one third of the Villainous Trinity at DC alongside Lex Luthor and The Joker."



The Seventh Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "The Cheetah is always her own boss and never the hench or underling of another character or entity."



The Eighth Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "The Cheetah always represents the polar opposite of whatever Wonder Woman stands for."



That's all I got for a starting point so far. There's a long way to go to bring her to her proper place in the DCU.

Want to join?


Long Live The Cheetah!

How's this?

[daBronzeBomma]

How's this?

Spectacular, Charmed. Absolutely spectacular!

I actually found the old archives:

http://oldforums.comicbookresources....f-69-p-24.html

The old Cheetah Apprecation thread is there too!

http://http://oldforums.comicbookres.../t-398353.html

All the stuff I was mentioning is toward the tail end of the thread.

The CATCAVE lives! #chooseCheetah!

[daBronzeBomma]

Let's go over the Goals and how best to accomplish them.

The First (and Second) Goal of the CATCAVE is "The Cheetah Alone (ALONE!) Is Wonder Woman's Arch-Enemy"

Seems self-explanatory, right? But it's not, b/c you can't say that the Cheetah has been given the kind of special attention that befits an arch-enemy of an alpha hero like Wonder Woman ... of course, then you go down the rabbit-hole that Wonder Woman herself hasn't been given the kind of special attention that befits an alpha hero in the first place, so where's the problem here?

Well, let's go through Wonder Woman's non-hench rogues gallery and see what kind of competition the Cheetah actually has:

1) The Cheetah
2) Circe
3) Ares
5) Giganta
6) Genocide
7) Baroness Paula von Gunther
8) Dr. Psycho
9) Herakles
10) Hades
11) Dr. Cyber
12) Dr. Poison
13) Silver Swan
14) Devastation
15) First Born
16) Cronus
17) Blue Snowman
18) Angle Man
19) Dark Angel
20) Apollo
21) Egg-Fu
22) Queen Clea
23) Eris/Strife
24) Red Panzer
25) Queen of Fables

Honestly, is the Cheetah better suited to the role of WW arch-enemy over the other 24 candidates? Why or why not?

[daBronzeBomma]

The Third Goal of the CATCAVE is "If Wonder Woman is the Greatest Female Super-Hero Ever, then The Cheetah is the Greatest Female Super-Villain Ever."

Is this true? Well, let's assemble ALL the super-villainesses from the DCU and see for ourselves. Behold!

1 Alkyone
2 Amanda Waller
3 Amazing Grace
4 Bernadeth
5 Black Alice
6 Blackfire
7 Blacksmith
8 Blaze
9 Bleez
10 Bloody Mary
11 Blue Snowman
12 Bres
13 Catwoman
14 Cheetah
15 Chesire
16 Circe
17 Cyborgirl
18 Dark Angel
19 Decay
20 Deuce
21 Devastation
22 Double Dare (2 sisters)
23 Dr. Cyber
24 Dr. Poison
25 Earth-3 SuperWoman
26 Emerald Empress
27 Enchantress (DC)
28 Eris/Strife
29 Eviless
30 Faora/Ursa
31 Fatality
32 Genocide
33 Giganta
34 Glorith
35 Godiva
36 Golden Glider
37 Granny Goodness
38 Guilotina
39 Harlequin
40 Harley Quinn
41 Hazard
42 Hera
43 Hypnota
44 Indigo
45 Insect Queen
46 Jewelee
47 Jinx
48 Joker's Daughter
49 Karu-Sil
50 Killer Frost
51 Knockout
52 Lady Clay
53 Lady Shiva
54 Lady Vic
55 Lashina
56 Leather
57 Livewire
58 Lyssa Drak
59 Mad Harriet
60 Madame Rouge
61 Magenta
62 Magpie
63 Malice Wundabar
64 Marine Marauder
65 Maxima
66 Medusa
67 Mercy
68 Morgaine le Fey
69 Nocturna
70 Nyssa Raatko
71 Osira
72 Paula von Gunther
73 Peek-a-boo
74 Phobia
75 Plastique
76 Poison Ivy
77 Prank
78 Queen Bee
79 Queen Clea
80 Queen of Fables
81 Rampage
82 Ravager
83 Roulette
84 Saturn Queen
85 Scandal Savage
86 Scar
87 Shado
88 Shimmer
89 Silver Banshee
90 Silver Swan
91 Spider Girl
92 Star Sapphire Carol Ferris
93 Stompa
94 Sun Girl
95 Tala
96 Talia al Ghul
97 Ventroliquist
98 Veronica Cale
99 Wunda
100 Zara

That's all 100 (technically 101, since Double Dare is actually 2 sisters) DC super-villainesses.

Now let's apply the DisQualifiers

DQ 1 = Not Evil Enough: This applies to anti-heroes, "bad girls" with a conscience, and persistent side-switchers

DQ 2 = Not Independent Enough: This applies to henchwomen, sub-ordinates, sidekicks, and female versions of established male characters

DQ 3 = Not Present Enough: This applies to one-shot storyliners and long-dormancy-havers

DQ 4 = Not Durable Enough: This applies to anyone who hasn't been around long enough to truly earn their stripes. There is a wee bit of ageism at play in this, but I feel that a truly great super-villain of any gender needs a sizable amount of time to mature into a his/her/its true form. But where to set that line? Less than 10 years? At least 10 years? 15 years? 25 years? 30 years? More? How much time is needed to establish lasting villainy? I'm going to go with what I perceive to be a not-quite-completely arbitrary 20-year mark. Anyone who has been around less than 20 years (as of this time, that would be going back to 1994 or before) has not been around long enough to earn the crown.

DQ 5 = Not Original Enough: Were these character's comic debuts their first in any medium ... including other literature and documents? Like say, established real-world mythologies and stories that pre-date comics medium by hundred or thousands of years? It feels wrong that the greatest female super-villain in comics would not actually originate from comics.

DQ 6 = Not Thematically Consistent Enough: The villain doesn't always have to have the same singular identity, but her motif and purpose should be consistent. Does she own that name and motif? Does that character always target the same hero or heroes? Conversely, is that name shared with other un-related characters? Are there others with nothing in common except the name?

DQ 7 = Not Leader Enough: Not only would the Greatest Ever Female Super-Villain (GEFSV) never be a hench, but she would be able to attract followers or be able to lead other beta villains. She couldn't be always just one of the team. She calls the shots by default. Conversely, does she frequently take orders? Is she too much of a loner? That might works if you are the Joker, but even he requires underlings (disposable ones, but still) and obeys no one.

DQ 8 = Not Accomplished Enough: What have these ladies actually done that would warrant the crown. What is their best victory? What feats have they accomplished? Have they accomplished anything of note?

After applying all 8 DisQualifiers, 96 (technically 97) contenders were laid to waste, and we are left with a Female Super-Villain Final Four:

1 Blaze
2 Cheetah
3 Glorith
4 Queen Clea

These four finalists are truly Evil enough, Independent enough, Present enough, Durable enough, Original enough, Thematically Consistent enough, Leader enough, and Accomplished enough. True Villains each.

Is Cheetah a greater True Villain than Blaze, Glorith or Queen Clea?

[AmiMizuno]

to you what ideologies and counterpart is why she(cheetah) is Diana's Archy enemy

[daBronzeBomma]

to you what ideologies and counterpart is why she(cheetah) is Diana's Archy enemy

That's the 8th Goal of the CATCAVE, and we're still wrapping up the first three. We'll get there

OK, back to the Cheetah Versus Everybody Tournament for DC's Greatest Ever Female Super-Villain:

Blaze
Cheetah
Glorith
Queen Clea

We currently have 4 finalists, which is 3 too many. How to whittle it down further?

DQ 9 = Not Heroically Foil-ish Enough. What does this mean? If heroes are defined by their opposing villains, then the same is true for villains: they are defined by their opposing heroes. All the great male villains have an opposite heroic number to which they mutually point to. Lex Luthor has Superman (and vice verse). The Joker has Batman (and vice verse). Magneto has Professor X (and vice verse. Doctor Doom has Mister Fantastic (and vice verse). Darkseid had Highfather (and vice verse). Green Goblin has Spider-Man (and vice verse). They always ranked as the greatest villain in some capacity that the hero faces (basically must be Top 3 rogue at worst).

What about these ladies?

Blaze (debuted in Superman, ported over to Shazam, not in either's Top 3) DQ9
Cheetah (Wonder Woman Top 3) passed
Glorith (Legion of Super-Heroes Top 3) passed
Queen Clea (debuted in Wonder Woman, not in WW's Top 3) DQ9

Alright, we got our Title Bout!

THE CHEETAH


versus

GLORITH



Only ONE can be DC's Greatest Ever Female Super-Villain!

[klinton]

Cheetah is one of my favorite comic book characters, period. Dr. Minerva, in particular. I loved her portrayal from Perez' creation, on through Mesner-Loebs' use of the character. She kind of fell apart after that, getting mangled by Byrne and especially Jimenez.

I was glad they opted to re-introduce Minerva in the 'New 52', even with the tooling of her origin.

It's weird, though, how listings of the various Cheetah's over the years always overlook Debbie Domain. She was actually the resident Cheetah when I first encountered the character, but no one ever seems to remember her (admittedly unremarkable) stint.

[Thor2014]

Growing up, I had the awesome Wonder Woman audio book where Wonder Woman fought the Cheetah. Deborah Doumain ws the Cheetah at the time. I liked how DDs Cheetah was lined to the original Cheetah, by being brainwashed to believe she was the Priscilla Rich Cheetah. It's a shame Debbie didn't have a little longer time as Cheetah before the '86 reboot.

[daBronzeBomma]

Back to the Title Bout : The Cheetah versus Glorith!

After 9 DisQualifying Rounds, these are your final two contenders for DC's Greatest Ever Female Super Villain. Both of them are True Villains: Evil Enough, Independent Enough, Present Enough, Durable Enough, Original Enough, Thematically Consistent Enough, Leader Enough, Accomplished Enough, Heroically Foil-ish Enough.

So what now?

If this were a head-to-head direct physical battle, Glorith wins. Glorith is by far more powerful than the Cheetah (she would have to be, to take on the entire freakin' Legion of Super-Heroes all by herself).

But being physical mightier does not automatically mean greater (if it did, then the Anti-Monitor would be the Greatest Super Villain Anywhere, period. And he's not).

So what should be the the final Dis-Qualifier? What, after everything else has already been applied, should be used to determine greatness?

Fame.

If you ask the casual comic book fan to name a female DC super-villain, whose name is coming up first? Probably Catwoman, but she's gone. Out of these two remaining contenders, who is more famous?

Well, when DC celebrated it's 75th anniversary in 2010 with a universe-spanning action figure line, it did this



and this



for the Cheetah.

DC did this for Glorith in that same line: nothing.

DQ 10 = Not Famous Enough. If you have to say "who?", then chances are your greatness has not yet been attained.


Ladies and Gentleman, DC's Greatest Ever Female Super-Villain!: