VILLAINS! Your Thoughts On: CHEETAH!

[Outside_85]

Barbara was fully empowered by Urzkartaga when she performed the ritual to become the Cheetah. His punishment extended to her human form, where she was frail, in pain and also kind of crazy. And it wasn't even her that botched the ritual, that was kind of on Chuma for not asking if she was a virgin beforehand, though considering the desperate circumstances, it's kind of understandable that they both rushed through it.

That is perhaps true, though leaving her very powerful seems like an odd way for a god to show his anger.

Aside that, there is not much that on the face of it says Diana and Cheetah should be equals simply because they were both blessed. Like Perez's Diana had the blessings of six gods, Barbara only had one. Diana's were kind enough to point out what powers they gave her and a loose definition of the amount, while Barbara's didn't.

She was able to elude Diana in their fights long before Zoom showed up. What's more, early Minerva was smart enough to rely on hit and run tactics in their fights, and only made a move to get up close when Diana was thrown off balance, when overpowering her would be easier. And even later in their first fight, they both struggle on the opposite ends of the lasso, and the art and narration point out that the strain is equal for both of them. In the Jimenez run, after being struck down by Ballesteros Cheetah, Superman notes that he hits like Captain Marvel or Diana. If there is a difference in strength, it isn't as vast as you're making it out to be. Or at least it wasn't before Rucka, Heinberg and Pheiffer, the trifecta from hell.

Their fight in Bana-Mighdall ended with Diana pummeling her in a rage with the desire to kill her before restraining herself, and she came out with nary a scratch in the next issue. However, neither one of them was on their A-game at that point, so that may not count.

Well, thats really what it boils down to; Which writers do you think got it right, who lowballed and who blew things out of proportion. Me I am actually leaning on Simone getting it right, Cheetah is very fast and she has sharp claws and as long as she avoids getting bogged down in h2h with Diana, she can last a good while... but if she stops and Diana manages to land a solid blow on her, it's pretty much over. And this is why I don't like it when writers make her fight like an animal, because thats just an invitation to disaster when going up against someone like Diana.

The scene you're referring to is a dream Barbara is having, so it can't be relied upon as an accurate reflection of reality. We've yet to see an actual flashback of the two interacting as friends before the dagger came into play. She probably didn't act that obviously crazy in reality.

Well let me point out that Barbara also does a bit of 'I am the victim' thing, so I could imagine the real conversation was a bit worse than Barbara likes to remember it.

Otherwise, I agree with you. It was a great idea with a half assed execution. We never see what she was like pre-Cheetah, so we get informed of her intelligence but never actually see it firsthand. Shame too because putting her in the Black Room is an obvious way to bring her brilliance as an archaeologist into play, but it's so far been wasted. Hopefully Rucka's "Year One" rectifies this mistake. Better late than never.

Bold: Didn't we have that tale of her upbringing from the 'Villains month' issue?

Otherwise, yeah, let hope so... but as Rucka is part of your 'trifecta from hell', it might not happen :S

As for that wretched Green Arrow story, the writer clearly didn't do his research on the Cheetah before writing it.

We shall leave it at that.

Thing is that it wasn't something that hadn't happened before. (I certainly had hoped we could avoid it appearing again post-FP, but apparently there are people in DC who are cool with this depiction)

[SiegePerilous02]

That is perhaps true, though leaving her very powerful seems like an odd way for a god to show his anger.

Aside that, there is not much that on the face of it says Diana and Cheetah should be equals simply because they were both blessed. Like Perez's Diana had the blessings of six gods, Barbara only had one. Diana's were kind enough to point out what powers they gave her and a loose definition of the amount, while Barbara's didn't.

I suppose it's odd, but he still relied upon her to eat humans and share the bounty with him through the ritual, or else he would wither and die. He needed her at full strength to perform that function. But human Minerva was fair game, and in a twisted way, he gave her what she wanted: immortality. It was just an immortal life filled with pain, and the fact that the only time she could be free of the pain was when she was the Cheetah ensured that she would go along with the ritual.

Barbara having one god to Diana's six is pretty weird, but her god gave her his full attention and power, whereas the Olympian goddesses weren't actually synched up with Diana beyond giving her some magic gifts.

Well, thats really what it boils down to; Which writers do you think got it right, who lowballed and who blew things out of proportion. Me I am actually leaning on Simone getting it right, Cheetah is very fast and she has sharp claws and as long as she avoids getting bogged down in h2h with Diana, she can last a good while... but if she stops and Diana manages to land a solid blow on her, it's pretty much over. And this is why I don't like it when writers make her fight like an animal, because thats just an invitation to disaster when going up against someone like Diana.

I do agree with your last point, which is why I still tend to favor Perez's take on the character. In Cheetah form she was a savage fury, but she didn't fight like a dumb animal. She used her speed and cover of her surroundings to keep Diana off balance, and Diana had to rely on her hunters instincts throughout the battle. I guess if you think Perez was going overboard with her powers that's fair, but he is the one who created that iteration of the character and established her in continuity. It's the responsibility of later writers to pay attention, and to be fair, everybody pre-Rucka did ok. Simone's Cheetah went down too easily in comparison. Cheetah should be weaker than Diana, but not by that much, especially as she just had two rough matches against Genocide and probably not at her best.

Well let me point out that Barbara also does a bit of 'I am the victim' thing, so I could imagine the real conversation was a bit worse than Barbara likes to remember it.


Bold: Didn't we have that tale of her upbringing from the 'Villains month' issue?

Well her dream featured her stabbing Diana. I can't really imagine things in reality being worse than that, especially if Diana is still all "She's my best friend you guyz!" I know Johns' Diana isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but...

As for the bolded, I should have clarified that we never saw any actual interactions between her and Diana while they were "friends" (that wasn't in a dream). Yes, we do see some flashbacks between her and her creepy aunt. And Minerva as a little kid was way creepier than any of her appearances as an adult.

Otherwise, yeah, let hope so... but as Rucka is part of your 'trifecta from hell', it might not happen :S

Hence why I'm a little worried. But if Johns can somehow wake up one day and start writing a Diana that isn't offensively terrible, I suppose I can give Rucka another shot with Cheetah. As long as Snapper Carr and Zoom are nowhere in sight.

[SiegePerilous02]

So, she made a rather underwhelming appearance in the latest issue of Suicide Squad

spoilers:

She spends the entire issue running from the First of Cain, and even gets shot by a couple arrows and needs Floyd's help. Not offensively terrible; the Fist note that killing her would be worth the most points out of the Squad, so that implies she's the biggest game I guess. And since there are apparently hundreds of them, there's a possibility that she mowed through a lot of them "off screen," and there's always the possibility that some of them are metas. The Squad's regrouping at the end, so that means we'll be seeing the whole group kick some ass next issue. Aside from the weirdness surrounding her (*sigh*) the book was great. The Fist of Cain are a cool group with a premise that allows for a limitless supply of garish mooks. I'm bummed Seeley is only on this title for two more issues. Cheetah should probably leave, but I don't want the creative team to.

end of spoilers

And some things from Earth One:

spoilers:

One of the unnamed Amazons from New Sparta (I guess Morrison's answer to the Banas) is a redhead with a cheetah print tattoo on her shoulder and part of her arm. I'm wondering if this is gonna lead to this Amazon becoming Cheetah? She's only in one panel, so maybe it's just a mythology gag by Paquette, but I don't think seeing that particular pattern show up in a Wonder Woman comic, by Morrison of all people, is ever a coincidence.

end of spoilers

[Stormcrow]

Really annoyed that the Harley Quinn/Suicide Squad special missed out on featuring Cheetah in that scene where the trinity is fighting their big villains... we get Batman vs the Joker, Superman vs Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman vs... Deathstroke?? Seriously, they can't even give her a cameo? Or feature any actual WW villain for that matter?

[SiegePerilous02]

Really annoyed that the Harley Quinn/Suicide Squad special missed out on featuring Cheetah in that scene where the trinity is fighting their big villains... we get Batman vs the Joker, Superman vs Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman vs... Deathstroke?? Seriously, they can't even give her a cameo? Or feature any actual WW villain for that matter?

Ugh, I wish you were joking but I know you're not. They have to be deliberately trolling us at this point. If not her, why not Ares or Circe? Who the hell picks Deathstroke of all people?

[Outside_85]

Ugh, I wish you were joking but I know you're not. They have to be deliberately trolling us at this point. If not her, why not Ares or Circe? Who the hell picks Deathstroke of all people?

Same kind of people that made the logical conclusion that her twisted-mirror stand-in from Gods and Monsters was a New God that Diana has never met on page before, while Bats and Supes were replaced by a pair of their well-known foes.

Seriously, Bekka's part in that movie might as well have been taken by Cheetah, there part of a (Amazon) tribe that practiced shamanism.

[Nyssane]

So, she made a rather underwhelming appearance in the latest issue of Suicide Squad

spoilers:

She spends the entire issue running from the First of Cain, and even gets shot by a couple arrows and needs Floyd's help. Not offensively terrible; the Fist note that killing her would be worth the most points out of the Squad, so that implies she's the biggest game I guess. And since there are apparently hundreds of them, there's a possibility that she mowed through a lot of them "off screen," and there's always the possibility that some of them are metas. The Squad's regrouping at the end, so that means we'll be seeing the whole group kick some ass next issue. Aside from the weirdness surrounding her (*sigh*) the book was great. The Fist of Cain are a cool group with a premise that allows for a limitless supply of garish mooks. I'm bummed Seeley is only on this title for two more issues. Cheetah should probably leave, but I don't want the creative team to.

end of spoilers

I read this issue, too. spoilers:

Really disappointing, but I liked that Cheetah was worth the most points. I just feel like she would've been too fast for them to even target. And her watching Razer get killed was a bit unsettling. I was excited to see some body diversity but bam, she was ultimately worthless.

end of spoilers

[SiegePerilous02]

Seriously, Bekka's part in that movie might as well have been taken by Cheetah, there part of a (Amazon) tribe that practiced shamanism.

Or Artemis or Circe. Or just anybody but Bekka.

I read this issue, too. spoilers:

Really disappointing, but I liked that Cheetah was worth the most points. I just feel like she would've been too fast for them to even target. And her watching Razer get killed was a bit unsettling. I was excited to see some body diversity but bam, she was ultimately worthless.

end of spoilers

"Hurry up Razer, your fat ass is slowing us down!" got a laugh out of me at least.

I'm curious if the Fist has some metas signed up with them, which would explain a lot. I recall them being super powered in a Graysaon annual, but only after they drank Blockbuster's blood (which they drank out of juice boxes! Ha!), but that's the only instance. If that's not clarified in the next couple issues, I'm sure Seeley will be using them in Nightwing post-Rebirth.

[Dr. Poison]

I read this issue, too. spoilers:

Really disappointing, but I liked that Cheetah was worth the most points. I just feel like she would've been too fast for them to even target. And her watching Razer get killed was a bit unsettling. I was excited to see some body diversity but bam, she was ultimately worthless.

end of spoilers

Cheetah should have laughed off a bunch of bullets and skinned those mercenaries alive. Seeley clearly didn't do his research on her otherwise she would have been presented as much faster and durable.

[Rig]

Cheetah should have laughed off a bunch of bullets and skinned those mercenaries alive. Seeley clearly didn't do his research on her otherwise she would have been presented as much faster and durable.

In a issue before this one of the mercs mentioned how cheetah took on Justice League. Seely is pretty much aware of who cheetah is.

[Dr. Poison]

In a issue before this one of the mercs mentioned how cheetah took on Justice League. Seely is pretty much aware of who cheetah is.

Seeley may be aware of Johns' Justice League story but he clearly didn't read it otherwise he would have known that someone who is powerful enough to take down Superman and the Flash plus go toe to toe with Diana wouldn't have had any trouble with a band of gun-toating mercenaries. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Seeley using Cheetah. I just wish he would have used her at her full potential.

[Rig]

Seeley may be aware of Johns' Justice League story but he clearly didn't read it otherwise he would have known that someone who is powerful enough to take down Superman and the Flash plus go toe to toe with Diana wouldn't have had any trouble with a band of gun-toating mercenaries. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Seeley using Cheetah. I just wish he would have used her at her full potential.

I doubt that.

[SiegePerilous02]

In a issue before this one of the mercs mentioned how cheetah took on Justice League. Seely is pretty much aware of who cheetah is.

Yeah, that instance plus the fact that she's worth the most points is an indication that she's the most powerful of the group. But it's a case of "tell, not show." We got to more issues of this arc though, hopefully Seeley makes up for it.

[Dr. Poison]

I doubt that.

What do you doubt???

[Chrysalis_Changling]

is anyone else super interested in seeing just what rucka does with her in the rebirth series?

i gotta say not being a big wonder woman fan she's the only WW villain I'm familiar with due to her various animated appearances and her design makes her stand out from the rest easily in my eyes

she could be as popular as the joker or even the green goblin if i gotta use an example from marvel

yet in most cartoons she's just treated as a random goon that's in no way a legit villain on her own and is usually closely tied to the real villain of the story