View Poll Results: What do you think of Cheetah?

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  • Love her! One of my favorite villains ever!

    40 38.83%
  • I like her all right, but she could be better.

    42 40.78%
  • I don't really think one way or another about her.

    9 8.74%
  • I don't like Cheetah, she is a rubbish supervillain.

    10 9.71%
  • Who's Cheetah?

    2 1.94%
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  1. #76
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Moving on ...

    The Fifth Goal of the CATCAVE is ... "Whatever the scope of Wonder Woman's heroic role is (global/etc) in nature, thus the scope of The Cheetah's villainous objectives are likewise (global/etc) in nature."

    I think this is one of the more problematic areas for the Cheetah.

    What's her game? Seriously, what does she want? What is her official motivation?

    Wonder Woman's mission, whatever it was interpreted as, was always international (if not global) in nature. She comes into Man's World for a reason that will have implications across borders.

    What does the Cheetah want to do? Become queen of the planet? Bring about a new world order? Kill/subjugate all men? Seriously, I'm not sure what officially drives her, as it seems each incarnation has a different reason for messing with WW in the first place.

    The Cheetah needs a simple but effective motivation for doing what she does. What is it?

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    You know, a part of me wishes they had brought Cheetah's character closer to the Perez origin. I like some of the new elements, such as her being Diana's "friend" and the multiple aliases, so I would keep those. If I had done it, it would have been more like this:

    - Wonder Woman's first big adventure in Man's World would once again be thwarting Ares and his minions, but instead have Dr. Barbara Minerva take the place of Julia Kapatelis in the original story. She could help decipher Harmonia's Amulet/Random McGuffin this time around. Steve's friend, Michaelis, would also be present, but like Steve he would be much younger in this version.
    - Have her befriend Diana purely because she wants to learn more about the Amazons, and maybe attempt to swipe the lasso. The robbery at the Smithsonian would have been masterminded by Barbara from behind the scenes: she unveils whatever archaeological find she discovered to claim the credit, while faking a robbery so she could get it back into her private collection.
    - Her original name would be Priscilla Rich, with Barbara Minerva being her primary alias, though she has others (Domaine, Ballesteros, etc.). While a teenager, she killer her family (and faked her death) in a car accident or whatever, stealing their fortune and building a new life for herself as Minerva.
    - She would be recruited to head the Black Room, and go on some adventures with Diana and Steve. She would eventually lead an ARGUS-sponsored expedition to find the tribe of Urzkartaga, with Michaelis accompanying her. She forms an alliance with Chuma and performs the ritual, though this time it is Michaelis instead of Leavens whom she kills for her first sacrifice. This would be her Moral Event Horizon for both Steve and the reader if Michaelis is developed enough.
    - Like post-Crisis Barbara Minerva, she gains immortality and god-like power while in Cheetah form, but is wracked with pain, frailty and madness due to Urzkartaga punishing her. Urzkartaga would also be a creepy looking effigy instead of a goofy looking plant.
    - Her stance on killing is something closer to Lex, Cold and Sinestro as opposed to the Joker and Manta: she only does it when she feels she has to, and doesn't go out of her way to seek it out or derive much pleasure from it. However, she doesn't lose any sleep over it either.
    - Julia Kapatelis and/or Helena Sandsmark would be brought in as her replacement in the Black Room.
    - She would frequently team up with Lex and (to her chagrin) the Joker, and the three would sort of be viewed as the de-facto leaders by the supervillain community in the same way that the Trinity are viewed the same way by the Justice League.

  3. #78
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You know, a part of me wishes they had brought Cheetah's character closer to the Perez origin. I like some of the new elements, such as her being Diana's "friend" and the multiple aliases, so I would keep those. If I had done it, it would have been more like this:

    - Wonder Woman's first big adventure in Man's World would once again be thwarting Ares and his minions, but instead have Dr. Barbara Minerva take the place of Julia Kapatelis in the original story. She could help decipher Harmonia's Amulet/Random McGuffin this time around. Steve's friend, Michaelis, would also be present, but like Steve he would be much younger in this version.
    - Have her befriend Diana purely because she wants to learn more about the Amazons, and maybe attempt to swipe the lasso. The robbery at the Smithsonian would have been masterminded by Barbara from behind the scenes: she unveils whatever archaeological find she discovered to claim the credit, while faking a robbery so she could get it back into her private collection.
    - Her original name would be Priscilla Rich, with Barbara Minerva being her primary alias, though she has others (Domaine, Ballesteros, etc.). While a teenager, she killer her family (and faked her death) in a car accident or whatever, stealing their fortune and building a new life for herself as Minerva.
    - She would be recruited to head the Black Room, and go on some adventures with Diana and Steve. She would eventually lead an ARGUS-sponsored expedition to find the tribe of Urzkartaga, with Michaelis accompanying her. She forms an alliance with Chuma and performs the ritual, though this time it is Michaelis instead of Leavens whom she kills for her first sacrifice. This would be her Moral Event Horizon for both Steve and the reader if Michaelis is developed enough.
    - Like post-Crisis Barbara Minerva, she gains immortality and god-like power while in Cheetah form, but is wracked with pain, frailty and madness due to Urzkartaga punishing her. Urzkartaga would also be a creepy looking effigy instead of a goofy looking plant.
    - Her stance on killing is something closer to Lex, Cold and Sinestro as opposed to the Joker and Manta: she only does it when she feels she has to, and doesn't go out of her way to seek it out or derive much pleasure from it. However, she doesn't lose any sleep over it either.
    - Julia Kapatelis and/or Helena Sandsmark would be brought in as her replacement in the Black Room.
    - She would frequently team up with Lex and (to her chagrin) the Joker, and the three would sort of be viewed as the de-facto leaders by the supervillain community in the same way that the Trinity are viewed the same way by the Justice League.
    I love all of this. DC, hire this man!

  4. #79
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You know, a part of me wishes they had brought Cheetah's character closer to the Perez origin. I like some of the new elements, such as her being Diana's "friend" and the multiple aliases, so I would keep those. If I had done it, it would have been more like this:

    - Wonder Woman's first big adventure in Man's World would once again be thwarting Ares and his minions, but instead have Dr. Barbara Minerva take the place of Julia Kapatelis in the original story. She could help decipher Harmonia's Amulet/Random McGuffin this time around. Steve's friend, Michaelis, would also be present, but like Steve he would be much younger in this version.
    - Have her befriend Diana purely because she wants to learn more about the Amazons, and maybe attempt to swipe the lasso. The robbery at the Smithsonian would have been masterminded by Barbara from behind the scenes: she unveils whatever archaeological find she discovered to claim the credit, while faking a robbery so she could get it back into her private collection.
    - Her original name would be Priscilla Rich, with Barbara Minerva being her primary alias, though she has others (Domaine, Ballesteros, etc.). While a teenager, she killer her family (and faked her death) in a car accident or whatever, stealing their fortune and building a new life for herself as Minerva.
    - She would be recruited to head the Black Room, and go on some adventures with Diana and Steve. She would eventually lead an ARGUS-sponsored expedition to find the tribe of Urzkartaga, with Michaelis accompanying her. She forms an alliance with Chuma and performs the ritual, though this time it is Michaelis instead of Leavens whom she kills for her first sacrifice. This would be her Moral Event Horizon for both Steve and the reader if Michaelis is developed enough.
    - Like post-Crisis Barbara Minerva, she gains immortality and god-like power while in Cheetah form, but is wracked with pain, frailty and madness due to Urzkartaga punishing her. Urzkartaga would also be a creepy looking effigy instead of a goofy looking plant.
    - Her stance on killing is something closer to Lex, Cold and Sinestro as opposed to the Joker and Manta: she only does it when she feels she has to, and doesn't go out of her way to seek it out or derive much pleasure from it. However, she doesn't lose any sleep over it either.
    - Julia Kapatelis and/or Helena Sandsmark would be brought in as her replacement in the Black Room.
    - She would frequently team up with Lex and (to her chagrin) the Joker, and the three would sort of be viewed as the de-facto leaders by the supervillain community in the same way that the Trinity are viewed the same way by the Justice League.
    Definitely agree with the last bit (and will go more into detail later).

    Here's my biggest obstacle with Cheetah and I'll ask you, since you seem to have definite ideas about Cheetah: WHY is she doing all that?

    What is her motivation? Pure vanity and narcissism? A desire to hurt the world? To rule it? To remake it? Should the Cheetah stand for something more than herself? Is there a twisted ideal she should be striving toward that drives her (a la Luthor)? Or is she merely the embodiment of that ideal and needs no cause (a la Joker)? Or maybe some kind of combo?

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Definitely agree with the last bit (and will go more into detail later).

    Here's my biggest obstacle with Cheetah and I'll ask you, since you seem to have definite ideas about Cheetah: WHY is she doing all that?

    What is her motivation? Pure vanity and narcissism? A desire to hurt the world? To rule it? To remake it? Should the Cheetah stand for something more than herself? Is there a twisted ideal she should be striving toward that drives her (a la Luthor)? Or is she merely the embodiment of that ideal and needs no cause (a la Joker)? Or maybe some kind of combo?
    I'm mostly going by what I know of her from her post-Crisis stories: she just wants to learn things and not be in pain, but her methods of doing so are short sighted/self centered and ruthless. While Diana is all about striving for collective empowerment and peace, Cheetah is all about furthering her own goals and sees other people as means to her ends. Barbara shares many qualities with Diana: a strong potential leader, cunning/quick thinking in tough situations, appreciates the pursuit of understanding and knowledge, a thrill seeking adventurer, etc. But whereas Diana uses these qualities to help others, Barbara rather callously uses them to climb over everyone else.

    There is also Priscilla Rich's envy, which could be present in the hypothetical version I posted about above. Over the course of her "friendship" with Diana, Barbara/Priscilla would slowly grow some resentment towards the Amazon Princess. She is aware she and Diana share those same qualities, and perhaps subconsciously knows Diana is the better person. Instead of using that as motivation to change herself for the better, it just makes her hate Diana more and seek to tear down the idealized image that WW is often accused of projecting.

    None of this means squat with the New 52 version though, who's main goal seems to be inspiring people to revert to their animal-like base instincts. This does neatly contrast with Diana's view of trying to inspire humanity to be better, but it runs the risk of writers treating her as a dumb animal/generic psycho.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You know, a part of me wishes they had brought Cheetah's character closer to the Perez origin. I like some of the new elements, such as her being Diana's "friend" and the multiple aliases, so I would keep those. If I had done it, it would have been more like this:

    - Wonder Woman's first big adventure in Man's World would once again be thwarting Ares and his minions, but instead have Dr. Barbara Minerva take the place of Julia Kapatelis in the original story. She could help decipher Harmonia's Amulet/Random McGuffin this time around. Steve's friend, Michaelis, would also be present, but like Steve he would be much younger in this version.
    - Have her befriend Diana purely because she wants to learn more about the Amazons, and maybe attempt to swipe the lasso. The robbery at the Smithsonian would have been masterminded by Barbara from behind the scenes: she unveils whatever archaeological find she discovered to claim the credit, while faking a robbery so she could get it back into her private collection.
    - Her original name would be Priscilla Rich, with Barbara Minerva being her primary alias, though she has others (Domaine, Ballesteros, etc.). While a teenager, she killer her family (and faked her death) in a car accident or whatever, stealing their fortune and building a new life for herself as Minerva.
    - She would be recruited to head the Black Room, and go on some adventures with Diana and Steve. She would eventually lead an ARGUS-sponsored expedition to find the tribe of Urzkartaga, with Michaelis accompanying her. She forms an alliance with Chuma and performs the ritual, though this time it is Michaelis instead of Leavens whom she kills for her first sacrifice. This would be her Moral Event Horizon for both Steve and the reader if Michaelis is developed enough.
    - Like post-Crisis Barbara Minerva, she gains immortality and god-like power while in Cheetah form, but is wracked with pain, frailty and madness due to Urzkartaga punishing her. Urzkartaga would also be a creepy looking effigy instead of a goofy looking plant.
    - Her stance on killing is something closer to Lex, Cold and Sinestro as opposed to the Joker and Manta: she only does it when she feels she has to, and doesn't go out of her way to seek it out or derive much pleasure from it. However, she doesn't lose any sleep over it either.
    - Julia Kapatelis and/or Helena Sandsmark would be brought in as her replacement in the Black Room.
    - She would frequently team up with Lex and (to her chagrin) the Joker, and the three would sort of be viewed as the de-facto leaders by the supervillain community in the same way that the Trinity are viewed the same way by the Justice League.

    I love all of this as well especially the parts about Priscilla Rich and being part of the villainous Trinity.
    Currently Reading:Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Freedom Fighters, Gotham City Monsters, Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Hey before her become The Were Cheetah could she be costumed? However by that I mean a cool suit that as magical objects. I kinda of her want her to start off as costumed but the costume modern version needs to look like A clothed Barbra.

  8. #83
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm mostly going by what I know of her from her post-Crisis stories: she just wants to learn things and not be in pain, but her methods of doing so are short sighted/self centered and ruthless. While Diana is all about striving for collective empowerment and peace, Cheetah is all about furthering her own goals and sees other people as means to her ends. Barbara shares many qualities with Diana: a strong potential leader, cunning/quick thinking in tough situations, appreciates the pursuit of understanding and knowledge, a thrill seeking adventurer, etc. But whereas Diana uses these qualities to help others, Barbara rather callously uses them to climb over everyone else.
    The bolded part is the bit that's so maddening about the Cheetah. Are her own goals/ends just whatever strikes her fancy at the moment? Is/should there be a bigger picture in mind?

    I feel that since Wonder Woman's mindset is to change the world, the Cheetah should be likewise, just in the opposite direction.

    None of this means squat with the New 52 version though, who's main goal seems to be inspiring people to revert to their animal-like base instincts. This does neatly contrast with Diana's view of trying to inspire humanity to be better, but it runs the risk of writers treating her as a dumb animal/generic psycho.
    I kinda like the idea of the Cheetah being a blend of masterful strategist and bloodthirsty sociopath.

    This leads me to conclude that the Cheetah needs some cause she is trying to promote, some easy-to-sum-up end-goal she is always in pursuit of ... but what?

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    The bolded part is the bit that's so maddening about the Cheetah. Are her own goals/ends just whatever strikes her fancy at the moment? Is/should there be a bigger picture in mind?

    I feel that since Wonder Woman's mindset is to change the world, the Cheetah should be likewise, just in the opposite direction.



    I kinda like the idea of the Cheetah being a blend of masterful strategist and bloodthirsty sociopath.

    This leads me to conclude that the Cheetah needs some cause she is trying to promote, some easy-to-sum-up end-goal she is always in pursuit of ... but what?
    Yeah, I'm mostly going off of Perez's characterization, who didn't seem the type to set out to deliberately conquer the world. That doesn't necessarily strike me as a bad thing, though. I think her ruthless treasure hunting pursuits and petty envy towards Diana are motivation enough for her. We know what magical totems and artifacts are capable of in the DCU. Barbara's antics could lead to wide scale destruction, whether she plans on it or not. Not that it would occur to her to show restraint: so what if such-and-such artifact triggers Armageddon? As long as she gets to satisfy her curiosity and claim the credit for discovering it.

    I like to think Johns had her love of archaeology in mind when he set up her new position in the DCU. Why put her in charge of the Black Room if they're not going to do anything with it? She and Black Manta totally need to either team up with each other or race against each other to find an Atlantean artifact.

  10. #85
    Boba milk tea enthusiast Zainu's Avatar
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    Forgive me for asking, but why is DC leaving Cheetah nekkid? I mean, all she has to wear is a silver necklace and flimsy decorative belt. Her skin looks smooth, but even if she were covered in fur...she's still in the nude. Like, she is all out there, but they just don't draw her private bits. Kinda like Ken...or that thing with male superheroes, where every pack in a six-pack is well defined, but the junk is still under wraps. Only she doesn't have a skin tight suit or a jock strap to excuse it.

    DC should give both WW and Cheetah some pants. And maybe something to support their girls up top as well.

    Last edited by Zainu; 06-12-2014 at 12:01 PM.

  11. #86
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    I think some armor like Cheetah had in Odyssey would be nice... I can't really take the naked look too seriously. Even some black leather like in the Doom movie would be just fine. I get why she's naked, but aesthetically it's not that great, IMO.

  12. #87
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    I kind of like the no clothes look she has going on (visually it makes her look feral, but mentally we know that she's more than just a wild animal), but I'd also like to see her rock that outfit she wore in JLoom.

    http://youtu.be/P-xYHsi8Tuk

    New screenshot of Cheetah in Lego Batman 3 (Her outfit there isn't half bad) Cheetah fans rejoice.

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    The naked look worked in the Perez years because she wasn't in Cheetah form 24/7, she only took part in the ritual when she was ready to go to war. It emphasized how much of a feral force of nature she was. But if New 52 Minerva has her intellect while in Cheetah form and doesn't seem able to return to human form, I would like her to have a similar outfit to JL: Doom. Those Legion of Doom meetings are gonna be awkward with her just letting it all hang out while she's at the discussion table.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The naked look worked in the Perez years because she wasn't in Cheetah form 24/7, she only took part in the ritual when she was ready to go to war. It emphasized how much of a feral force of nature she was. But if New 52 Minerva has her intellect while in Cheetah form and doesn't seem able to return to human form, I would like her to have a similar outfit to JL: Doom. Those Legion of Doom meetings are gonna be awkward with her just letting it all hang out while she's at the discussion table.

    And especially when she takes the podium.
    Currently Reading:Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Freedom Fighters, Gotham City Monsters, Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I want her to be in and out of the cheetah form. Hey if she was originally Priscilla Rich before becoming Barbara Minerva can she costumed cheetah first. However something cool looking.

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