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  1. #286
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garlador View Post
    This is something I REALLY wish they would lean into more. Editorial and writers get so caught up on making Peter miserable and lonely, when at this point he has built countless bonds and forged friendships with countless heroes willing and able to step up and help him. His kindness and empathy should be rewarded more often. He’s NOT alone and shouldn’t act like he is.

    It’s nice when heroes (and writers) remember that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garlador View Post
    A huge difference would be if they stopping having other heroes show up to bail him out of every minor fight (so when he DOES need help you know the threat is major) or him begging and pleading for others to help him, but instead have other heroes ask HIM for help. When’s the last time a hero reached out to him directly saying “can you be MY backup?”

    I was rereading even a simple one-shot yesterday of Peter showing up to meet Wolverine and going “got your message. You said this was important” and tagging along with him. Little things like that showing the hero community at large considers him a friend and an asset. Someone they value and rely on. And when push comes to shove, someone they’d step up for too. There’s been some of that this run (Reed’s “you’re a good friend” moment), but not enough. Gang War just started but already I’m a bit disappointed most of the heroes started it as effectively cameos going “I’ll handle this on my own, good luck” instead of rallying behind Pete (and some, like Miles, are pretty hostile for understandable reasons).

    I read Shattered Grid recently where the heroes put out a call for help, hoping other Power Rangers respond. They have no idea that they’re considered legends to other teams, their influence felt strongly across time and space. They get a massive response.


    The stories that emphasize that it’s okay to get help, but not because you are weak or incompetent, but because you earned it and you’ll get it in your hour of need. That your strength isn’t only in the power to solo a villain (even if he can) but in inspiring others to step up and be their best alongside you.
    This. All of this. And kudos for the reference to the Power Rangers comics, which have been some of the best out in the last few or several years.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    You raise a good and valid point about the shallower knowledge pools from which a lot of these writers seem to be drawing upon these days, though I could argue that's also got a lot to do with the general decline, if not devaluing, of knowledge and education in our society over the intervening years since ASM's beginnings.
    While I see your point, I'd argue that pop culture has become more literate and sophisticated - there was nothing comparable to Succession or Breaking Bad or The Good Place on television in the 1960s, at all. There are also many writers in comics who are obviously drawing from their deep knowledge pools.

    But not on Amazing Spider-Man.
    “I always figured if I were a superhero, there’s no way on God's earth that I'm gonna pal around with some teenager."

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  3. #288
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    I think it is more of an issue that comics don't define these characters as much as the movies do the movies do for most people. So writers are more likely to pull from movies then they are from the actual pages of the comic without realizing whether or not their assumptions are the status of Spider-Man is 'wrong' per the continuity

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifetap View Post
    I think it is more of an issue that comics don't define these characters as much as the movies do the movies do for most people. So writers are more likely to pull from movies then they are from the actual pages of the comic without realizing whether or not their assumptions are the status of Spider-Man is 'wrong' per the continuity
    Well, I don't think we need Iron Boy in the comics .

  5. #290
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, I don't think we need Iron Boy in the comics .
    Honestly, I wasn't even a fan of Peter becoming Tony's protoge just before OMD.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Honestly, I wasn't even a fan of Peter becoming Tony's protoge just before OMD.
    At least there it ended up working out in the sense that he turned on Tony.

  7. #292
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    At least there it ended up working out in the sense that he turned on Tony.
    God, I hate Civil War.

    Pro-registration is clearly the correct position (in the real world), so they had to make Tony into a fascist jailer. (Which is why I don't like stories where the premise rejects a basic element of superhero stories, like how and why people have secret ids).

  8. #293
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    God, I hate Civil War.

    Pro-registration is clearly the correct position (in the real world), so they had to make Tony into a fascist jailer. (Which is why I don't like stories where the premise rejects a basic element of superhero stories, like how and why people have secret ids).
    Yeah, it had a lot of problems.

    There's a reason the Civil War movie didn't even hinge the premise on the Accords.

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    While I see your point, I'd argue that pop culture has become more literate and sophisticated - there was nothing comparable to Succession or Breaking Bad or The Good Place on television in the 1960s, at all. There are also many writers in comics who are obviously drawing from their deep knowledge pools.

    But not on Amazing Spider-Man.
    So, for whatever reason, Marvel is just not putting its best and brightest on its flagship solo hero title anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, it had a lot of problems.

    There's a reason the Civil War movie didn't even hinge the premise on the Accords.
    It kind of did, but more in the broad sense of, "Do superheroes take responsibility and let themselves be held accountable for the damage their (well-intentioned) actions may cause, or do they insist that they know best and don't have to answer to anyone who might (rightfully) complain about the collateral damage and innocent casualties in their wake?" Of course, the argument is somewhat complicated in that we the audience, along with Steve Rogers, know that Bucky Barnes was brainwashed into a living assassination weapon by HYDRA for decades and therefore has at least diminished responsibility for his actions. That's not getting into how the events of The Winter Soldier taught Steve that he couldn't always trust the government or other such institutions to protect the common good as opposed to their bottom lines or power bases, even well before he learned from Zola's digitized consciousness that they'd almost all been long coopted by HYDRA, so Steve being suspicious of the intent and/or outcome of the Accords wasn't entirely misplaced.

    Even more so, the guy pushing hardest for the Accords was the same guy who spent years hunting down Bruce Banner/Hulk in the hopes of weaponizing his transformations and the power they could unleash and was never held accountable for his part in the destruction that ensued after his own super-soldier turned himself into the Abomination so he could get another shot at taking down the Hulk, so the inference could be made that the Accords weren't entirely about ensuring accountability for the Avengers, but turning them into a controllable asset for and of the US government. At least the movie didn't go out of its way to totally demonize Tony Stark, even if him bringing a teenaged Spider-Man/Peter Parker into that fight, notwithstanding his capabilities and formidability, was a deeply sketchy move that he never had to answer or account for in-universe, aside from a quasi-humorous exchange with Rhodey/War Machine calling out Tony in regard to Spidey's age.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #295
    Incredible Member Daibhidh's Avatar
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    Talking about MCU Civil War: a description of tragedy that I owe to the blogger El Sandifer is that tragedy as a genre happens when a hero is put into a situation that is the wrong fit for their heroic traits.
    So Steve is a hero because he doesn't give up and doesn't bend, and tells the universe, you move; and he's put in a situation where he needs to recognise what he can't change in order to influence what he can change. And Tony is a hero who is used to being the smartest person in the room and making decisions on his own, and who is trying to redeem himself for his mistakes; and he's put in a situation where he needs to be diplomatic and get other people on board and not project his guilt onto other people. Both Steve and Tony keep on for sympathetic reasons doing the right thing in the worst possible way.

    Of course, it helps that neither of them decides that making a murderous clone of Thor is in any way a good idea.
    Last edited by Daibhidh; 12-09-2023 at 09:29 AM.
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  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    God, I hate Civil War.

    Pro-registration is clearly the correct position (in the real world), so they had to make Tony into a fascist jailer. (Which is why I don't like stories where the premise rejects a basic element of superhero stories, like how and why people have secret ids).
    Yeah, I agree. The idea that they compare it to a violation of civil rights seems ridiculous. In the real world, you don't have the right to dress up in a costume and run around beating the **** out of criminals, especially if you're killing innocent people and blowing up buildings in the crossfire. You would absolutely be arrested for that.

    Also, we have enough problems with police overreach and lack of accountability. Imagine having a bunch of anonymous vigilantes running amok without any oversight.

  12. #297
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    It was just not the kind of thing to try to apply to a widespread Superhero universe.

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daibhidh View Post
    Talking about MCU Civil War: a description of tragedy that I owe to the blogger El Sandifer is that tragedy as a genre happens when a hero is put into a situation that is the wrong fit for their heroic traits.
    So Steve is a hero because he doesn't give up and doesn't bend, and tells the universe, you move; and he's put in a situation where he needs to recognise what he can't change in order to influence what he can change. And Tony is a hero who is used to being the smartest person in the room and making decisions on his own, and who is trying to redeem himself for his mistakes; and he's put in a situation where he needs to be diplomatic and get other people on board and not project his guilt onto other people. Both Steve and Tony keep on for sympathetic reasons doing the right thing in the worst possible way.

    Of course, it helps that neither of them decides that making a murderous clone of Thor is in any way a good idea.
    Pretty much, yeah. It's why the MCU Civil War, and even Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2's version, worked better, though MUA2 had a happier ending, insofar as the Avengers coming together again to stop a threat created in part because of their fighting and division. If you're pro-reg, choosing that side actually ends with the SHRA reformed to remove all the morally sketchier parts of its implementation, at least by my recollection.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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