Can MJ and Ben Reilly be fixed?

[Huntsman Spider]

This is just reminding me how it's probably for the best they haven't brought Kaine back.

If in context of Ben and Janine and their current status, it could be an opportunity for some very good character exploration and interaction, given how they've all changed from where (and who) they were in their original 90s portrayals.

[Tuck]

Pretty sure I read they’re bringing Kaine back, lol.

Yeah, but it's this one.

[Refrax5]

The Parker Luck is lazy writing, if fact how today writers use it is completely wrong. In the early history of Spider-Man, he had to make a choice either go after the villains or go do his commitments to his friends and family.

He always chooses Spider-Man, this makes Spider-Man responsible and Peter a loser, which I found ironically because of the great speech of responsibility.

Peter seems to be a man in his early 30s, in real life that is considered a middle age man, and he got nothing to show for. This how not to make Spider-Man relatable, in my opinion to make him relatable is to show how he juggling his responsibilities. In real life if we need to make time for everything and some stuff to put on hold until we get back to it.

I think we at least ready for someone to take over the main Spider-Man, or in my own opinion a new Spider-Man not connected or connected to currently Spider-People. Ben could take over again, when he came back, I thought Marvel was going that route, by as always they took the easily way.

I don't think most people think of early 30s as middle aged, honestly. And a lot of people that age are still struggling, single people. And that's without the stress and problems of being a superhero every two seconds. He's got a pretty good job at the moment, has saved countless lives and been a member of the Avengers. He's lived a life of great significance and seen and accomplished things most people could never dream. I agree that the writing is bad at the moment and they need a different approach, but this is a huge exaggeration.

[The Black Death]

She could also get with Kaine Parker and it'd have the same effect. He's not dating anyone at the moment

No matter how you look at it, it doesn't make any sense for Janine to date a guy who screwed up Janine's life and threatened her life, not to mention that it makes even less sense for Janine to date someone who is dead, even worse when that someone is dead in oblivion. This discussion out of the blue about which woman belongs to the Parker brothers is ridiculous, even more so when it has already been shown on multiple occasions who belongs to whom.

MJ still belongs to Peter in some way despite all the generic melodrama with Paul, Janine only belongs to Ben because have been the couple that have proven to be the most united even though are temporarily separated because Ben was trapped in that stupid Limbo prison, although well won't be so separated anymore because Ben escaped from that Limbo prison and now he's free, and well nobody belongs to Kaine because all his love relationships have been as forgettable and irrelevant as that character himself, not even any current Marvel writer has any interest in using Kaine's character, that's sad.

Oh, I almost forgot that the only current writer who has shown a genuine interest in using Kaine is Zeb Wells, it will be kind of fun to see how Wells manages to screw up and ruin what little development Kaine has had as a character .

[Tuck]

This discussion out of the blue about which woman belongs to the Parker brothers is ridiculous,

It was a joke.

[The Black Death]

It was a joke.

I know, but a simple joke can escalate into some pretty absurd discussions, just look at all the jokes made along with Peter, Mary Jane and Paul that made on other sites like Reddit for example. The result of that kind of "jokes" don't always end up in very pleasant ways.

[Frontier]

Yeah, but it's this one.

It's funny because she and MJ share the same VA .

[Alan2099]

I don't think most people think of early 30s as middle aged, honestly. And a lot of people that age are still struggling, single people. And that's without the stress and problems of being a superhero every two seconds. He's got a pretty good job at the moment, has saved countless lives and been a member of the Avengers. He's lived a life of great significance and seen and accomplished things most people could never dream. I agree that the writing is bad at the moment and they need a different approach, but this is a huge exaggeration.

A lot of people don't think of Peter as a man in his 30s either. Most writers tend to make Peter a man in his perpetual mid to late 20s. That might not make sense to you but "marvel time".

He always chooses Spider-Man, this makes Spider-Man responsible and Peter a loser, which I found ironically because of the great speech of responsibility.

If sacrificing your own happiness to save other people's lives make you a loser, I don't want to know what kind of guy you consider a winner.

In real life if we need to make time for everything and some stuff to put on hold until we get back to it.

Imagine a fireman not coming to save your house because he needed to have "me time," or the police not showing up because they all had other stuff to do. Peter can't put the hero stuff on hold because when he does, people get hurt or die.

[Malachi]

A lot of people don't think of Peter as a man in his 30s either. Most writers tend to make Peter a man in his perpetual mid to late 20s. That might not make sense to you but "marvel time".


If sacrificing your own happiness to save other people's lives make you a loser, I don't want to know what kind of guy you consider a winner.


Imagine a fireman not coming to save your house because one’s he needed to have "me time," or the police not showing up because they all had other stuff to do. Peter can't put the hero stuff on hold because when he does, people get hurt or die.

Since Peter is played as a secret identity it makes all the good decisions funnel over to another character. We know, Peter knows, but the MU as a world doesn’t. For all intents Peter Parker is a loser. Every success he has is short term and his lows are very low. He will end up as a shell when Spider-man is his true identity.

Just as Clark is the character for many readers and Superman is the identity we are slowly seeing a reverse with Peter. Because his personal life lacks structure and progress it’s not strange for readers to gravitate towards Spider-Man. Why care about Peters melodrama and the rinse and repeat formula applying to a revolving door of supporting characters. Why get attached to new characters he might befriend or date when they are out of the comic soon enough. Or turned villain.

Say what you want with characters like MJ. With May. Or formerly Harry. They grounded Peter and made us have parts of his world where we could attach emotional value. It mattered to us if Peter made them happy or sad, disappointed or proud. Now these characters are not there as a continuous presence anymore. MJ has become a convoluted mess and Harry has already done the same. May is still there but over the years the focus has moved away from her in many ways.

So I am not surprised if fewer and fewer fans care about Peter and his drama when there is Spider-man action to enjoy.

If they move MJ so far from her character as they have done then the stakes changes too. She is now Jackpot and is living with a man she had 2 magic children with(who appeared to be magical constructs) in a magical dimension for years where she lived a Sarah Connor life. As these characters life’s become more and more absurd it’s harder to care if Peter misses a date or arrives late for something.

[Daibhidh]

A lot of people don't think of Peter as a man in his 30s either. Most writers tend to make Peter a man in his perpetual mid to late 20s. That might not make sense to you but "marvel time".
He hasn't been written as a man in his twenties since Straczynski. Brand New Day and early Slott write him as a thirty-something having a mid-life crisis. Late Slott writes him as a forty-something having a mid-life crisis. Spencer wrote him as a thirty something who is trying to resolve his midlife crisis. From what I've seen of Wells, he's a thirty-something having a midlife crisis again.

One of the first Spider-man comics I ever read was an issue of Marvel Team-Up, where Reed has had his intellect drained and Peter helps him reverse the intellect drain. And Reed is ready to give up, but Peter doesn't because Peter is young and that means he's idealistic and optimistic and he doesn't give up.
Well, he's now being written as a man who has had the idealism and optimism beaten out of him by life and time and hard experience.

Imagine a fireman not coming to save your house because he needed to have "me time," or the police not showing up because they all had other stuff to do. Peter can't put the hero stuff on hold because when he does, people get hurt or die.

Actually, fire fighters and the police and doctors and nurses do have to have time off, because otherwise they burn out.

[TinkerSpider]

If sacrificing your own happiness to save other people's lives make you a loser, I don't want to know what kind of guy you consider a winner.

A quick look around the internet brings up thousands of articles by pyschologists, psychiatrists and coaches that point out constantly sacrificing your own happiness for others can be mentally unhealthy and a form of dysfunction and a symptom of co-dependency, while society's insistence on self-sacrifice as a virtue is used to keep women in sexist roles while also leading to toxic masculinity.

Imagine a fireman not coming to save your house because he needed to have "me time," or the police not showing up because they all had other stuff to do. Peter can't put the hero stuff on hold because when he does, people get hurt or die.

Vacation and mandatory time off for soldiers, policemen, firemen, security guards, et al, are very real and very vital concepts.

If in context of Ben and Janine and their current status, it could be an opportunity for some very good character exploration and interaction, given how they've all changed from where (and who) they were in their original 90s portrayals.

It really could be.

But here's the main issue, IMO. For the last fifteen years, with the exception of Spencer's run, ASM has been written by authors whose careers are built on pastiches, homages, parodies, and mash-ups of previous comic books and other post-1960s pop culture intellectual property.

And pastiches, homages, parodies, and mash-ups have their place and can be vastly entertaining.

But the authors, as far as I can tell with a look at their bibliographies, have not written anything wholly original (Spencer has several creator-owned titles). Their careers have been spent either working with other people's IP or creating parodies/homages to other people's IP. They haven't world built from the ground up. They haven't constructed a brand new character that isn't some sort of mash-up/homage/parody drawing on past comic books/pop culture IP, so they haven't had to consider a character's psychology and why they act the way the do and what formative events in their lives helped to form the character's core beliefs. And their references are insular pop culture references - they aren't drawing from the greater canon of literature/mythology (unlike most of the Marvel Silver Age comics - Stan Lee was an avid reader) or world events/anthropology (Hickman loves to examine how humans form various societies/governments) or human psychology (JMD is a master of this), etc. Therefore, the stories don't breathe and take on life; they lay flat.

So MJ and Ben can be fixed. But that entails treating both of them as if they were fully fledged characters, which I don't see happening right now.

[Tuck]

A quick look around the internet brings up thousands of articles by pyschologists, psychiatrists and coaches that point out constantly sacrificing your own happiness for others can be [. . .]a form of dysfunction,

I think the comics have generally acknowledged this. Peter's obsession and guilt are often pointed out as pathological and unhealthy.

[TinkerSpider]

I think the comics have generally acknowledged this. Peter's obsession and guilt are often pointed out as pathological and unhealthy.

I agree, and that's why it's a great character beat for him and a cool, organic to the character source of conflict. Because self-sacrifice of course can be noble - but there needs to be boundaries. Taking time for oneself is not inherently selfish, but is necessary as well as healthy. Peter needing to relearn his boundaries or reformulate his boundaries or be forced to acknowledge he needs boundaries or having his guilt/obsession cause him personal harm but also lead to external victories, thus reinforcing his personal conflict, has led to some great character moments in the past. Not lately, of course.

[Garlador]

Actually, fire fighters and the police and doctors and nurses do have to have time off, because otherwise they burn out.

Even the most dedicated soldier is granted shore leave. Human beings cannot function without breaks from endless fighting.

[t-spider]

Peter is always gonna be Peter, for good or ill. We can talk breaks, vacation time or whatnot, but he's always going to sacrifice himself for others. That won't change, no matter the writer.