Who's really the 7th Member of the JLA's "Big Seven"

[Laser_Man]

Superman still sells more comics than the other two by a considerable amount.

But that's only comics. And only because DC hasn't really figured out how to sell Joker and Harley to the comic book readers. Imagine if they ever get an ongoing series with top tier talent.

For the general audience, those two are a much bigger deal than Superman. Look at the Joker movie making billion dollars at the box office, or Harley Quinn's cartoon being so wildly successful. Superman's recent movies and cartoons have not been anywhere close to them.

[Stanlos]

Even Superman is barely A-list.

Judging by popularity, the only truly A-list characters DC has are Batman, Joker and Harley.

Um

In a discussion of DC COMICS CHARACTERS, how are you arguing that Superman is NOT A-List?

[j9ac9k]

But that's only comics. And only because DC hasn't really figured out how to sell Joker and Harley to the comic book readers. Imagine if they ever get an ongoing series with top tier talent.

For the general audience, those two are a much bigger deal than Superman. Look at the Joker movie making billion dollars at the box office, or Harley Quinn's cartoon being so wildly successful. Superman's recent movies and cartoons have not been anywhere close to them.

If you want to talk about dollars, we'd have to go beyond movies to calculate the money Superman makes as a cultural icon.

[Jim Kelly]

Where in the fine print does it say that all of the Justice League members have to be the highest selling?

[j9ac9k]

Where in the fine print does it say that all of the Justice League members have to be the highest selling?

The fun thing about this being a topic of conversation is that nothing is "written." I take this thread to be about personal opinion, which is fodder for discussion and it seems to me that one of the qualifications for "Big 7" is being in some way a prominent member of the DCU - and for some, the irl reality of sales is a compelling factor.

[Riv86672]

The fun thing about this being a topic of conversation is that nothing is "written." I take this thread to be about personal opinion, which is fodder for discussion and it seems to me that one of the qualifications for "Big 7" is being in some way a prominent member of the DCU - and for some, the irl reality of sales is a compelling factor.

^^^Thats when I start losing interest in the conversation.
I don’t care how much a character sells (as I’m not getting a share of the profits) I care how much I enjoy the character.

In regards to this conversation I care about their in-universe history and status. J’onn’s a pillar of the hero community, one of the most powerful, has been a Leaguer throughout most of their incarnations, and respected by all his peers.

He’s easily one of the Big 7.

[Laser_Man]

Um

In a discussion of DC COMICS CHARACTERS, how are you arguing that Superman is NOT A-List?

You just need to see how much interest the general public has in him compared to Joker and Harley.

Superman is only A-list due to the nostalgia of being the first superhero, otherwise he has not been a profitable brand in decades. Forget the movies, even his TV shows struggle to get good viewership.

[Laser_Man]

If you want to talk about dollars, we'd have to go beyond movies to calculate the money Superman makes as a cultural icon.

I don't see Superman merchandise being sold nearly as much as Batman or Joker merch, not even close.

[MajorHoy]

In regards to this conversation I care about their in-universe history and status. J’onn’s a pillar of the hero community, one of the most powerful, has been a Leaguer throughout most of their incarnations, and respected by all his peers.

He’s easily one of the Big 7.

My problem with that statement about J'onn is, as I've said before, when I first regularly following the Justice League (back in 1972), he wasn't really an active member. Oh, sure, he'd be in reprinted stories, but at that point he was on an extended leave from the team (an absence that began back in 1969) and didn't return to being a regular member until 1984.

Oh, sure, he'd occasionally show up for an issue or three, but it wasn't until the Justice League Detroit years that he became quite so integral a member.

[Riv86672]

My problem with that statement about J'onn is, as I've said before, when I first regularly following the Justice League (back in 1972), he wasn't really an active member. Oh, sure, he'd be in reprinted stories, but at that point he was on an extended leave from the team (an absence that began back in 1969) and didn't return to being a regular member until 1984.

Oh, sure, he'd occasionally show up for an issue or three, but it wasn't until the Justice League Detroit years that he became quite so integral a member.

^^^Operative word being ‘most’ which I added because you’d mentioned his extended hiatus before.

[Ascended]

I don't see Superman merchandise being sold nearly as much as Batman or Joker merch, not even close.

The data is a few years old now, but not long before the pandemic I had to dig some information up for a college paper. This was somewhere during the height of the MCU, somewhere between Black Panther and Endgame. I don't recall where I got the information from, but it was a fairly important marketing class and all the data had to be verified and accurate.

Spider-Man was the most profitable superhero with something solidly over a billion in revenue annually.

Batman was second with a billion and a little change.

The Avengers, as a collective group, were third with something like 550/600 million in revenue.

Superman was forth, with something like 440 million.

That was global revenue, mind, not specifically from the States. And I believe it included things like movie and game merchandise, but I don't believe it counted box office or game sales. So the t-shirt you bought fed the data, even if the movie the shirt was based on didn't.

Clark's not too bad off here. Batman does sell a lot more merchandise, at least double what Clark does (though I think Joker, Harley, etc., are lumped in under the Bat umbrella too) He got far fewer larger media adaptations to keep him in the public consciousness and what he did get wasn't too popular. Yet he stays in the top 5. It's damned respectable, considering the competition and the status of the character's material at the time.

Alternatively, if you looked at who was the most well known and recognized fictional character, Superman beats them all. During the same time period, he was ranked as the second most recognized fictional character on earth, with Mickey Mouse at #1. Batman was on that list somewhere, and I think Wonder Woman too, maybe Spidey, but strangely none of the Avengers made it despite this data coming from the MCU glory days of phase 3.

[MajorHoy]

With 94 people having now voted,

* Martian Manhunter = 72 votes
* "Somebody Else" = 6 votes
* Cyborg = 4 votes
* Hawkman = 3 votes
* Black Canary = 3 votes

All other options currently have less than three votes each.

Plastic Man, Hawkwoman, Shazam, and now "Robin" have only one vote each at present.

[Aahz]

I would argue Green Arrow.

Of the early additions to the JLA he is the one with the best track record of keeping a book going and he has a pretty large family with usually one member also being an iconic member of each generation of titans.

[TheRay]

I think interesting stories can be told in Elseworlds if you shake up the founding members, but the original Earth One founding members should always be the same.
Similar to how Justice League members have been members of the Justice Society, but there is not much overlap in the other direction.

[Riv86672]

I would argue Green Arrow.

Of the early additions to the JLA he is the one with the best track record of keeping a book going and he has a pretty large family with usually one member also being an iconic member of each generation of titans.

^^^Those ARE good arguments. GA is def. an iconic League mainstay.