Variety article on "Crisis at Marvel"

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, we all thought Guardians 3 was going to be the shot in the arm, and that hasn't translated well for the subsequent shows or The Marvels.

Well Guardians 3 was an ending and that was Gunn departing from Marvel Films. I think we knew it would make massive money , just not expecting a big creative film to set things right awhile.

Those 2 franchises coming and Deadpool is a big creative jolt being inserted in.

[Phoenix Raptor]

It feels to me as if Disney/Marvel have lost some of the confidence they used to have in the characters themselves. Because of the Multiverse aspect they're hammering at the moment, they're throwing in alt versions all over the place when it doesn't necessarily benefit the story. No Way Home was a "cool excuse" to bring back what they saw as the best parts of the previous Spider franchises, and the general audience lapped it right up.

But waaaay back in the early days of the MCU, they took a gamble and did a film involving a semi-talking tree and a smart raccoon, as well as a bunch of other characters who the general public most likely had never heard of. And they made a sizeable chunk of cash from it! No cameos from "established" characters or anything like that - the story and the performances sold the film.

I miss those day, to be honest. Now they seem to see the bankable future as giving us versions of pre-MCU folk because we're presumably all excited by such things. Deadpool 3, for example... if the casting rumours for that film are even half true, it's going to be ridiculously over-stuffed and I'm willing to bet that the story will suffer as a result of having to accommodate so much fan service!

It's sad that Marvel Studios couldn't start out with all of its major players on the books, but that's just the nature of it, I guess. I just wish that the story mattered as much as it used to and that they had the faith in the movies to be carried on their own merits, rather than throwing as many cameos and alt versions in as possible.

[kingaliencracker]

Well Guardians 3 was an ending and that was Gunn departing from Marvel Films. I think we knew it would make massive money , just not expecting a big creative film to set things right awhile.

Those 2 franchises coming and Deadpool is a big creative jolt being inserted in.

I think the more accurate reality is that the "Golden Age" of comic book movies has concluded, and we're settling into a more grounded era where the expectations, box office, and fanfare for these movies won't be nearly as high as it was pre-pandemic and pre-Endgame. That certainly doesn't mean "doom and gloom" for the genre, but it means that it won't have the full attention or support of pop culture as it once did.

Deadpool and Spider-Man are outlier franchises - they'll likely do well no matter what. Even "bad" Spider-Man films in SM 3 and ASM2 made over $800 million and $700 million, respectively. Fantastic Four has a bigger hurdle to climb IMO because it doesn't have the casual fan appeal that Spider-Man, X-Men, and Batman have, and the three (four if you count the ashcan) previous F4 films have been mediocre at best.

[Jared]

The (current) director on MCU Blade says it will be rated R

So Disney to get away from the headlines about Marvel being in trouble.

[krazijoe]

Naysayers about Marvel...BOMBS! ALL BOMBS! GO WOKE GO BROKE!
Marvel: Ok, Less CGI and more grounded movies and shows. Scale back budget for all of the above...

Crisis fixed...

[Maestro 216]

Naysayers about Marvel...BOMBS! ALL BOMBS! GO WOKE GO BROKE!
Marvel: Ok, Less CGI and more grounded movies and shows. Scale back budget for all of the above...

Crisis fixed...

Its deeper than that the cgi team needs to not get squeezed so much, the Majors case is still hanging over Kang's status and other issues like too many characters stuck doing nothing.

[StickMin]

It feels to me as if Disney/Marvel have lost some of the confidence they used to have in the characters themselves. Because of the Multiverse aspect they're hammering at the moment, they're throwing in alt versions all over the place when it doesn't necessarily benefit the story. No Way Home was a "cool excuse" to bring back what they saw as the best parts of the previous Spider franchises, and the general audience lapped it right up.

But waaaay back in the early days of the MCU, they took a gamble and did a film involving a semi-talking tree and a smart raccoon, as well as a bunch of other characters who the general public most likely had never heard of. And they made a sizeable chunk of cash from it! No cameos from "established" characters or anything like that - the story and the performances sold the film.

I miss those day, to be honest. Now they seem to see the bankable future as giving us versions of pre-MCU folk because we're presumably all excited by such things. Deadpool 3, for example... if the casting rumours for that film are even half true, it's going to be ridiculously over-stuffed and I'm willing to bet that the story will suffer as a result of having to accommodate so much fan service!

It's sad that Marvel Studios couldn't start out with all of its major players on the books, but that's just the nature of it, I guess. I just wish that the story mattered as much as it used to and that they had the faith in the movies to be carried on their own merits, rather than throwing as many cameos and alt versions in as possible.

It's funny how you wrote all this out and yet so far the only MCU projects that have used the multiverse to bring in past versions of characters are No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness.
Like where were these alt versions in Shang Chi, Wakanda Forever, Eternals, Love and Thunder, Guardians 3, Ms Marvel, She Hulk, Quantumania,.
I can go on I just won't because it'll just be me naming nearly every project that's released.

[Phoenix Raptor]

It's funny how you wrote all this out and yet so far the only MCU projects that have used the multiverse to bring in past versions of characters are No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness.
Like where were these alt versions in Shang Chi, Wakanda Forever, Eternals, Love and Thunder, Guardians 3, Ms Marvel, She Hulk, Quantumania,.
I can go on I just won't because it'll just be me naming nearly every project that's released.

Hence why I said "hammering at the moment." No Way Home, MOM, Loki, Deadpool 3... even Endgame to a point, all dealing with multiverse or alt versions. The Marvels is heavily rumoured to have a FoxVerse cameo.

My point stands, thanks.

[Gaastra]

First reactions are in--critics other than grace of course loved it! Edit--nope she liked it also!

https://comicbookmovie.com/captain-m...7682#gs.054dwk

"Charming as no way home" huh? Why did disney hide the review embargo again? They needed this good word of mouth weeks ago.

[StickMin]

Hence why I said "hammering at the moment." No Way Home, MOM, Loki, Deadpool 3... even Endgame to a point, all dealing with multiverse or alt versions. The Marvels is heavily rumoured to have a FoxVerse cameo.

My point stands, thanks.

And of course you change the goalpost because you can't actually argue against what I said.
You said these alt versions were everywhere and it was evidence Marvel doesn't have confidence in their characters anymore, but yet of all the projects released recent how many actually feature this?
No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Endgame, Loki and Deadpool 3.
And yet these are only 5 projects and not only that these are apart of already established series featuring already established and successful characters.
No Way Home? MCU Spider-Man's 7th appearance in the MCU and his third movie after the first two were already incredibly successful.
Multiverse of Madness? 2nd Doctor Strange after the first one was successful and his 5th appearance overall.
Loki? A successful character in his 8th appearance who people have always wanted to have his own solo project.
Deadpool 3? The third Deadpool movie coming after successes featuring a character so popular he's the only part of Fox Xmen that isn't getting rebooted, is having his movie series continue and is gonna be Marvel Studios first R-rated project.
Endgame? I shouldn't even need to explain this one, the 4th Avengers movie, that's all I need to say.

Meanwhile the projects staring new characters like Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, Eternals, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, and projects continuing with older characters like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Black Panther Wakanda Forever, Thor Love and Thunder?
Yeah they don't have of that.
So no your point doesn't stand under the slightest bit of scrutiny.

[mace11]

First reactions are in--critics other than grace of course loved it!

https://comicbookmovie.com/captain-m...7682#gs.054dwk

"Charming as no way home" huh? Why did disney hide the review embargo again? They needed this good word of mouth weeks ago.

Reading what she said i thought she liked it.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The deciding factor will be... will the general movie going audience like it ? That to me is the big question. Unless they have strong word of mouth and can get 2nd and 3rd strong weekends , this isn't gonna go well.

[Gaastra]

Yeah, this could go like elemental and greatest showman or this could go like fast x and indy 5. It's up to audience score and strong good word of mouth.

[Phoenix Raptor]

And of course you change the goalpost because you can't actually argue against what I said.
You said these alt versions were everywhere and it was evidence Marvel doesn't have confidence in their characters anymore, but yet of all the projects released recent how many actually feature this?
No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Endgame, Loki and Deadpool 3.
And yet these are only 5 projects and not only that these are apart of already established series featuring already established and successful characters.
No Way Home? MCU Spider-Man's 7th appearance in the MCU and his third movie after the first two were already incredibly successful.
Multiverse of Madness? 2nd Doctor Strange after the first one was successful and his 5th appearance overall.
Loki? A successful character in his 8th appearance who people have always wanted to have his own solo project.
Deadpool 3? The third Deadpool movie coming after successes featuring a character so popular he's the only part of Fox Xmen that isn't getting rebooted, is having his movie series continue and is gonna be Marvel Studios first R-rated project.
Endgame? I shouldn't even need to explain this one, the 4th Avengers movie, that's all I need to say.

Meanwhile the projects staring new characters like Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, Eternals, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, and projects continuing with older characters like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Black Panther Wakanda Forever, Thor Love and Thunder?
Yeah they don't have of that.
So no your point doesn't stand under the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Moving goalposts? Huh?

Marvel themselves have called this current direction The Multiverse Saga, which honestly more than suggests that they're "hammering" the multiverse angle. Which is exactly what I said in my original post.

It's utterly irrelevant whether it's the 3rd MCU Spider movie or not; my point was that the alt versions and legacy characters from pre-MCU franchises are seemingly being shoehorned into many current and upcoming projects because, story be damned, seeing Jackman's Wolverine interact with Reynolds' Deadpool will hopefully fill cinemas. But, for me (and my post was of course only ever my own opinion), we're moving away from taking a calculated risk with far lesser known characters (GOTG, for example) and simply heading down a comparatively safer and (again, in my opinion) less interesting route with characters and actors that Marvel didn't have access to previously.

Quite simply, they seem to be hoping that nostalgia will make up for any story shortfalls.

Yes, there's been quite a number of Marvel projects that don't involve the multiverse in recent years. I never disputed that. But, when a company calls their latest overarching project line The Multiverse Saga, it's not really a stretch to figure out that it's going to involve the multiverse and alt or pre-MCU characters and actors. Is it...?

[StickMin]

Moving goalposts? Huh?

Marvel themselves have called this current direction The Multiverse Saga, which honestly more than suggests that they're "hammering" the multiverse angle. Which is exactly what I said in my original post.

It's utterly irrelevant whether it's the 3rd MCU Spider movie or not; my point was that the alt versions and legacy characters from pre-MCU franchises are seemingly being shoehorned into many current and upcoming projects because, story be damned, seeing Jackman's Wolverine interact with Reynolds' Deadpool will hopefully fill cinemas. But, for me (and my post was of course only ever my own opinion), we're moving away from taking a calculated risk with far lesser known characters (GOTG, for example) and simply heading down a comparatively safer and (again, in my opinion) less interesting route with characters and actors that Marvel didn't have access to previously.

Quite simply, they seem to be hoping that nostalgia will make up for any story shortfalls.

Yes, there's been quite a number of Marvel projects that don't involve the multiverse in recent years. I never disputed that. But, when a company calls their latest overarching project line The Multiverse Saga, it's not really a stretch to figure out that it's going to involve the multiverse and alt or pre-MCU characters and actors. Is it...?

I like how you can't actually argue against what I said.
You can't say they're using the multiverse to keep from taking risks and making projects with lesser known characters, and then ignore when it's pointed out they're still making projects centering around lesser known characters, and the only projects featuring the multiverse have been the ones featuring the already successful popular characters.

Like did the Eternals the who are definitely the least well known among the characters Marvel has introduced recently use the multiverse and have appearances from past characters?
Nope.

What movie did use the multiverse and feature appearances from past characters? Oh right No Way Home the movie about Spider-Man the most popular superhero in the world, who already had two successful entries in the MCU, and who's third movie was nearly guaranteed to be a success regardless of what they did.

Like this isn't a matter of opinion, you are just factually incorrect.