Variety article on "Crisis at Marvel"

[inisideguy]

This is why I'm very curious about the Agatha show, so many Westview characters are in the cast. They "killed" Wanda off too soon, would've been interesting to see if they tried to retaliate against her or not.

Ha. Well this is a great question. And how they handle this will be interesting. Because I think we all know that life doesn't work out in a way you can directly retaliate against those who do who have screwed you. Makes for an interesting show I would think.

[j9ac9k]

But the point of the ending was Wanda taking responsibility for her actions (well, minus facing legal repercussions for them) and trying to process her grief in better ways. It was meant to subvert a lot of the cliche's that MoM ended up falling into.

But then come MoM we get "boom! The Darkhold made Wanda evil!" and lost a lot of the nuance. All because Feige and co. really wanted a Dissasembled type take on Wanda. But I don't think that was what the showrunners for WandaVision were going for.

But then you actually watch WandaVision to get that context and it feels like two very different writers approaching Wanda with two very different purposes.

You have a much more charitable take on Wanda's actions than I do. I get that the show wanted to let her off the hook - even having Monica say she might've done the same, and Wanda's "I can't change how they see me." But she decided to condemn Agatha to endless torture and didn't even try to make it up to the townspeople - that's not taking responsibility in any way. "I will do better next time" is not taking responsibility. It's like, "Yes, I was drunk and crashed my car into people, but now that I know not to do that, I promise to not drink and drive so I don't need to actually face the consequences of my actions." To me, despite what the writers might have wanted, I just see Wanda not doing anything to atone for torturing those people and it wasn't a stretch to see her go fully bad with a push from the Darkhold to get her children back.

[ChrisIII]

The rumors about Downey, Evans (maybe not Johansenn as I think she kind of burned her bridges there) etc. returning kind of makes me think a bit what's happening with Doctor Who now (With Tennant briefly returning) and Sean Connery returning for DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER-bringing back the originals to win back the audience or fans until a more permanent fix can be reached.

[j9ac9k]

Maybe if they ditch Majors, Downey might be interested in coming back as the Big Bad - some evil Tony variant that ends up taking Kang's place. (maybe they'll even adapt "The Crossing" in some way, then pave the way for a new actor to play "Teen Tony" moving forward post Secret Wars)

[Albert1981]

The rumors about Downey, Evans (maybe not Johansenn as I think she kind of burned her bridges there) etc. returning kind of makes me think a bit what's happening with Doctor Who now (With Tennant briefly returning) and Sean Connery returning for DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER-bringing back the originals to win back the audience or fans until a more permanent fix can be reached.

I just wish that the MCU wouldn't have to resort to that. Grey's Anatomy and NCIS recently lost their two top leads, and their ratings are still really strong for their respective networks. I believe in next man up. Not living in the past. The MCU should be brave and retire older characters and introduce new ones (at a much slower pace). Marvel STILL has a lot of potential in my opinion.

[Maestro 216]

Maybe if they ditch Majors, Downey might be interested in coming back as the Big Bad - some evil Tony variant that ends up taking Kang's place. (maybe they'll even adapt "The Crossing" in some way, then pave the way for a new actor to play "Teen Tony" moving forward post Secret Wars)

Nah get Tom Cruise to play douche Tony.

[thwhtGuardian]

You have a much more charitable take on Wanda's actions than I do. I get that the show wanted to let her off the hook - even having Monica say she might've done the same, and Wanda's "I can't change how they see me." But she decided to condemn Agatha to endless torture and didn't even try to make it up to the townspeople - that's not taking responsibility in any way. "I will do better next time" is not taking responsibility. It's like, "Yes, I was drunk and crashed my car into people, but now that I know not to do that, I promise to not drink and drive so I don't need to actually face the consequences of my actions." To me, despite what the writers might have wanted, I just see Wanda not doing anything to atone for torturing those people and it wasn't a stretch to see her go fully bad with a push from the Darkhold to get her children back.

Yeah, I don't get the argument that Doctor Strange ignored the show, it seemed pretty obvious to me that at the end of the show she had not learned that she needed to be responsible with her magic. She didn't apologize for her actions, she did nothing to fix the problem she caused and then went right back to it by reading the Dark Hold and summoning her alternate reality children to her world again.

Those aren't the actions of a character going on a redemptive arc...they're the actions of someone who's about to make a bigger mistake than before and that's precisely what happened.

[80sbaby]

WandaVision should've ended with her turning herself in willingly. Then MoM has Strange go get her to help him with the threat. Simple.

[Android 17]

I mean I understand and see both sides of the argument, but I have to admit I liked MoM and Wanda's heel turn.

Besides, gives her more of an incentive to inevitably join her real daddy's Brotherhood.

[80sbaby]

I mean I understand and see both sides of the argument, but I have to admit I liked MoM and Wanda's heel turn.

Besides, gives her more of an incentive to inevitably join her real daddy's Brotherhood.

Oh, I liked it too. It was unexpected for me and the fact they did a "horror" film in the MCU. However I'm thinking the set up could've been better and that Wanda fans hate her "crazy" moments, so no need to piss them off.

[chicago_bastard]

You made the claim. I didn't specify a number. Just that it happened. You claimed it was a minority so the burden of proof is on you. Sorry.

And there being a discrepancy doesn't negate what I said, which is people did want the shows to connect. You didn't show they were a minority of viewers. Folks may not have Disney Plus but go see the film. Others might watch after the movie came out.

So your point was that you know five people who wanted the movies to be linked to AoS and that was a strong enough argument for you to claim that Marvel should link the movies better to the shows. Sorry I mistook you for someone who'd make claims that are based on more than their irrelevant anecdotal observations. Won't happen again.

[HollowSage]

Oh, I liked it too. It was unexpected for me and the fact they did a "horror" film in the MCU. However I'm thinking the set up could've been better and that Wanda fans hate her "crazy" moments, so no need to piss them off.

If those “crazy” moments come out of nowhere with no set up then I can see why fans would be pissed but that’s not the case with MoM.

As a child she lost her parents in a bombing done with Stark weapons. This is why she wanted to kill Tony Stark and the Avengers. She and her brother were part of experiments to create human weapons for Hydra. Her mistake killed people and inadvertently led to the breakup of the Avengers. She had to destroy Vision and then watch as it was all for nothing. We saw how angry she was about it in Endgame.

Next we see Wanda she has taken over an entire town and held the people against their will both physically and mentally and controlled them like puppets. She also recreated her boyfriend and created fake children.

Wanda didn’t start out in a great place and she had trauma after trauma that eventually led to her emotional and mental breakdown and then you add the Darkhold to that mix and I would be more shocked if she hadn’t turned evil. Makes perfect sense to me.

The Avengers really needed some better support structure for its members during downtime. Falcon couldn’t get financial assistance and Wanda obviously didn’t get the therapy she needed after what happened to Vision.

[Frontier]

I agree Wanda did some pretty messed up stuff, especially to the people of Westview, but I thought it was pretty clear by her undoing the Hex with her family in it and wanting to understand her powers (which going out of control is what caused this in the first place) was meant to be an attempt to better herself and prevent this from happening again. It wasn't executed well ("no one will know how much you sacrificed") but I think that was the idea.

She probably wouldn't become a cookie-cutter hero but I don't think they wanted it to come off with the vibe that she would almost immediately turn evil and start killing people again to get her kids back, kids she gave up for the sake of others, because reading a book made her crazy.

Really the only amount of "taking responsibility" that she could've done that I think people would have accepted was turning herself in to the authorities, but I think I can count on one hand the amount of times that's happened in Superhero fiction. I mean, Clint basically got off scott free for playing Punisher even when the daughter of one of the people he killed came after him. There is barely any real accountability in Superhero stories.

There's also the fact that turning her into a deranged superpowerful woman with cliche'd mommy issues, like in Disassembled, was exactly what they were trying to subvert in the show.

[Maestro 216]

They wrote themselves in a corner with the Darkhold meaning a heel turn.

[HollowSage]

They wrote themselves in a corner with the Darkhold meaning a heel turn.

Is it writing yourself into a corner when it’s by design? They had her take possession of the Darkhold for a reason. They knew what they were doing. Break Wanda emotionally so that she would be susceptible to the Darkhold’s influence. Some people may not like it but that was the plan.