Variety article on "Crisis at Marvel"

[Bunch of Coconuts]

They should've just made an Alternate Strange the villain in MoM. Then he and Wanda have to team up to beat him.

They also had the perfect setup for a villainess Wanda, in the shape of the comics character known as Lore (who is an alternate reality Wanda).

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Wanda...(Earth-TRN955)

[Celgress]

I will say this much, I was a huge fan years ago I never missed a show or movie but I now have little interest in anything MCU-related the same applies to Disney Star Wars. I think there is too much material being produced too quickly which has caused a notable dip in quality and thus general fan interest: it is a classic example of the law of diminishing returns. I know I'm exhausted with all things Disney.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

But MoM basically works better if you hadn't watched WandaVision because they completely ruined Wanda's character arc from that show just to make her the villain.

The show quite literally ends with Wanda escaping authorities and spending her time reading the Darkhold, I'm not sure how many other ways that was supposed to go

Yeah and it showed how far Wanda was going as we saw. The show was a set up obviously and a perfect lead in to follow Wanda into that film. An alternate Wanda wouldn't have really been as impactful or been as good really.

Plus I have to hand it to Marvel , Multiverse of Madness was the company giving us a very good horror film and going with Raimi was a great move. It was really the 1st Marvel Universe film you could sit and think....it was drastically different than the stuff Marvel Films was doing the past few years.

[Frontier]

The show quite literally ends with Wanda escaping authorities and spending her time reading the Darkhold, I'm not sure how many other ways that was supposed to go

But the point of the ending was Wanda taking responsibility for her actions (well, minus facing legal repercussions for them) and trying to process her grief in better ways. It was meant to subvert a lot of the cliche's that MoM ended up falling into.

But then come MoM we get "boom! The Darkhold made Wanda evil!" and lost a lot of the nuance. All because Feige and co. really wanted a Dissasembled type take on Wanda. But I don't think that was what the showrunners for WandaVision were going for.

But then there's absolutely no context for Billy and Tommy other than, "she had a dream where she had kids." That would make even less sense. I can buy Wanda reading the Darkhold and becoming corrupted by it (and it's not like she didn't do bad things in the show) more than buying into her emotional story to get her children back if the first time you saw them was in MoM.

But then you actually watch WandaVision to get that context and it feels like two very different writers approaching Wanda with two very different purposes.

[Scott Taylor]

Yeah and it showed how far Wanda was going as we saw. The show was a set up obviously and a perfect lead in to follow Wanda into that film. An alternate Wanda wouldn't have really been as impactful or been as good really.

Plus I have to hand it to Marvel , Multiverse of Madness was the company giving us a very good horror film and going with Raimi was a great move. It was really the 1st Marvel Universe film you could sit and think....it was drastically different than the stuff Marvel Films was doing the past few years.

Yep, MoM broke the typical Russo/Whedon/Feige mold. And it was wonderful.

[HollowSage]

But the point of the ending was Wanda taking responsibility for her actions (well, minus facing legal repercussions for them) and trying to process her grief in better ways. It was meant to subvert a lot of the cliche's that MoM ended up falling into.

But then come MoM we get "boom! The Darkhold made Wanda evil!" and lost a lot of the nuance. All because Feige and co. really wanted a Dissasembled type take on Wanda. But I don't think that was what the showrunners for WandaVision were going for.

But then you actually watch WandaVision to get that context and it feels like two very different writers approaching Wanda with two very different purposes.

Wanda took absolutely no responsibility for her actions at the end of WandaVision. She realized that the people she was holding hostage in the town were in pain. That shocked her into setting them free then she just walks away from all the pain and trauma she caused and goes into hiding where she uses the Darkhold to find a way to get her kids back.

That all fits more with a villain than a hero.

[Frontier]

Wanda took absolutely no responsibility for her actions at the end of WandaVision. She realized that the people she was holding hostage in the town were in pain. That shocked her into setting them free then she just walks away from all the pain and trauma she caused and goes into hiding where she uses the Darkhold to find a way to get her kids back.

That all fits more with a villain than a hero.

She seemed to realize she screwed up and that she needed to better understand her powers so something like this didn't happen again. It's why she gave up her family rather than let the Hex keep going at the expense of others and why she was using the Darkhold in the first place.

The intention wasn't to portray her as a villain but someone dealing with difficult and complex emotions who needed to learn to channel them better. I think they went too far in making her culpable in what happened to Westview but they definitely went way too far in portraying her in MoM.

But that's nothing new for Wanda.

[hyped78]

I really can't speak to the theater experience because I'm at the age where I prefer to stream all of this stuff. I still will tend to stream superhero movies more than others.

Now, that doesn't change the fact that anything wears thin after a while. Phase One was big. The rest got a lot of "It works so do that in every movie" with the standouts for me being ones like Black Panther and No Way Home that did a little humor but got away from the mold. Endgame really was the finale of an entire multi-year/ decade storyline. It's hard to follow that up with stuff that seems disjointed or, if it does have a theme, just is not grabbing as many people.

Basically sums up my feelings as well

[inisideguy]

She seemed to realize she screwed up and that she needed to better understand her powers so something like this didn't happen again. It's why she gave up her family rather than let the Hex keep going at the expense of others and why she was using the Darkhold in the first place.

The intention wasn't to portray her as a villain but someone dealing with difficult and complex emotions who needed to learn to channel them better. I think they went too far in making her culpable in what happened to Westview but they definitely went way too far in portraying her in MoM.



But that's nothing new for Wanda.

To me Frontier she walks away from all responsibility and consequences of what she did. No one holds her accountable. And what she did was horrible. She then goes off to isolate herself with an evil book. What probably happens if you actually think about it is not good. I think all of it made perfect sense.


Now people may not like the fact that she went evil. I get that. But to say it didnt make sense or was not done well plot wise overall I think is not being honest. Look in the end these are comic book movies. If you or any people actually read comic books over the years this is not abnormal. For cripes sake Loki 2 is happening right now and he is going through a transformation after probably being an evil god for a thousand or more years who had backstabbed and killed unknown amounts of people and creatures to becoming a new man.

People seem to accept this more. Because its the opposite of what has happened to Wanda. if we can accept redemption in these movies we sure as heck should be able to see how someone can break the other way.


Heck they actually show it happened to a alternate Doctor strange within that movie. He screwed up then got seduced by the dark hold. If it can happen to him how the heck can it not happen to Wanda. It makes total sense.

[Android 17]

Wanda definitely took accountability for her actions at the end of WandaVision. Did she go up to each citizen of Westview and personally apologize for what she did to them in her hex? No, but at the same time, she also didn't selfishly keep the hex going and living in her illusion with Vision and her boys. She did the right thing in the end. However, where she f'ed up at was studying the Darkhold and letting it slowly corrupt her, then making her THE villain.

Again, I don't know why anyone who watched WandaVision and saw her studying that book thought it was going to end well for her.

[chicago_bastard]

You have no actual data to back up this assertion.

You gave no data to back up your claim that a significant number of people wanted the movies to be linked to AoS, so why should I be obligated to provide data for my claim?

That said, of course there is data, one can look up the box office numbers of the movies and the viewing numbers of the shows and see the discrepancy.

I'm not arguing that point, nor do I think Wandavision was bad or a bad idea.

But Multiverse of Madness made $952,224,986 worldwide. That's a lot of ticket sales (even assuming some people saw it more than once.)

Do we have evidence that 30,000,000 people watched Wandavision (and this gets us to the point about whether they need to watch most of the episodes to be described as caring about it)?

Overall, WandaVision earned 4.8 billion minutes-watched over its nine-episode, eight-week run. https://observer.com/2021/04/disney-...ldier-ratings/

Dividing the minutes-watched by the total runtime of the show one gets 14.7 million views.

[inisideguy]

Wanda definitely took accountability for her actions at the end of WandaVision. Did she go up to each citizen of Westview and personally apologize for what she did to them in her hex? No, but at the same time, she also didn't selfishly keep the hex going and living in her illusion with Vision and her boys. She did the right thing in the end. However, where she f'ed up at was studying the Darkhold and letting it slowly corrupt her, then making her THE villain.

Again, I don't know why anyone who watched WandaVision and saw her studying that book thought it was going to end well for her.

She may have held herself accountable. But no one else freaking did. And your right she isolates herself and is studying the Dark hold at the end. Who actually thought ok this is going to be good for her? I mean I dont think they could have set things up better if they tried in the MCU.

[inisideguy]

You gave no data to back up your claim that a significant number of people wanted the movies to be linked to AoS, so why should I be obligated to provide data for my claim?

That said, of course there is data, one can look up the box office numbers of the movies and the viewing numbers of the shows and see the discrepancy.



Overall, WandaVision earned 4.8 billion minutes-watched over its nine-episode, eight-week run. https://observer.com/2021/04/disney-...ldier-ratings/

Dividing the minutes-watched by the total runtime of the show one gets 14.7 million views.

Is 14.7 million views good? And this is another thing I dont get. With any streaming show. If its there, for 3 years or more who the freak keeps track of views and reports on them?

[Android 17]

She may have held herself accountable. But no one else freaking did. And your right she isolates herself and is studying the Dark hold at the end. Who actually thought ok this is going to be good for her? I mean I dont think they could have set things up better if they tried in the MCU.

This is why I'm very curious about the Agatha show, so many Westview characters are in the cast. They "killed" Wanda off too soon, would've been interesting to see if they tried to retaliate against her or not.

[80sbaby]

You gave no data to back up your claim that a significant number of people wanted the movies to be linked to AoS, so why should I be obligated to provide data for my claim?

That said, of course there is data, one can look up the box office numbers of the movies and the viewing numbers of the shows and see the discrepancy.



Overall, WandaVision earned 4.8 billion minutes-watched over its nine-episode, eight-week run. https://observer.com/2021/04/disney-...ldier-ratings/

Dividing the minutes-watched by the total runtime of the show one gets 14.7 million views.

You made the claim. I didn't specify a number. Just that it happened. You claimed it was a minority so the burden of proof is on you. Sorry.

And there being a discrepancy doesn't negate what I said, which is people did want the shows to connect. You didn't show they were a minority of viewers. Folks may not have Disney Plus but go see the film. Others might watch after the movie came out.