Thoughts on X-23/Wolverine v Talon

[Havok83]

Talon is the on true Laura and quite frankly I dont think much has really been done with the cloned clone to keep her

That’s irrelevant in terms of whether or not they have a history because the resurrection process was the same either way. That process has a specific step to reinstate the person’s personality and memories. By that logic, did Laura only cease to have a history when we found out Talon was alive? Either all the resurrected characters ‘count’ as originals, or none of them do. And if none of them do, it’s basically a brand new set of characters…which, admittedly, it does feel like sometimes.

None of the resurrected characters are originals; they're clones. Im with Davetvs. We ignore that but it is what it is. Its like the Magik that was resurrected in the mid 00s whom was acknowledged as not the original in story but everyone ignored that bc the original wasnt there to challenge it. Really Talon should have made a bigger issue out of this but Duggan didnt want to tell that story

[Frontier]

I blame Gerry Duggan .

[Ambaryerno]

Talon is literally the original.

It will be a cold day in hell before I recognize Synch’s jewelry as a CHARACTER, much less the rightful Laura.

[Rift]

Resurrections are true revivals and that's been long established. I don't know why people are still discussing it years later, when the books never questioned it, it doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint to say that all the characters are fake, and Death herself basically confirmed thr Protocols are legit. What that means for Laura, we don't know - they basically ignored the question and gave up on exploring the implications, and at best they'll just write around it.

The "Young Laura isn't the real Laura" argument is also moot. Because when the time comes to do away with this whole plot thread and start fresh, they're most likely combining Talon and Laura into young Laura's body, or going to reveal that Talon is an impostor. They're going to default to the more recognizable Laura in the end.

[Frontier]

Resurrections are true revivals and that's been long established. I don't know why people are still discussing it years later, when the books never questioned it, it doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint to say that all the characters are fake, and Death herself basically confirmed thr Protocols are legit. What that means for Laura, we don't know - they basically ignored the question and gave up on exploring the implications, and at best they'll just write around it.

The "Young Laura isn't the real Laura" argument is also moot. Because when the time comes to do away with this whole plot thread and start fresh, they're most likely combining Talon and Laura into young Laura's body, or going to reveal that Talon is an impostor. They're going to default to the more recognizable Laura in the end.

This is kind of what ticks me off. There are so many implications and what they mean for the Resurrection Protocols but nobody really wants to dwell or talk about it because all that matters is Synch got his girlfriend back and what Jean says goes.

[Wiccan]

Kill them both and merge them for resurrection.

Unless that's officially over.

This. It's a pretty easy solution to keep them both while going back to having just one Laura.

[Wiccan]

Resurrections are true revivals and that's been long established. I don't know why people are still discussing it years later, when the books never questioned it, it doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint to say that all the characters are fake, and Death herself basically confirmed thr Protocols are legit. What that means for Laura, we don't know - they basically ignored the question and gave up on exploring the implications, and at best they'll just write around it.

The "Young Laura isn't the real Laura" argument is also moot. Because when the time comes to do away with this whole plot thread and start fresh, they're most likely combining Talon and Laura into young Laura's body, or going to reveal that Talon is an impostor. They're going to default to the more recognizable Laura in the end.

To me it always felt obvious that Hickman was going with the idea that a person's "soul" was really just their mind, their "essence", that could be recorded by Cerebro: Memories, personality and DNA. This obviously doesn't work along with the stories where a more mystical/spiritual concept of a "soul" exists, but I don't think they wanted to let that get in the way. And because the world "soul" was used when describing the process, more people bought the idea and didn't consider them as just clones (and there's also people who agree with that idea even without the word soul, the current Black Widow is "a clone" with her original memories).

I know that since then other writers have gone a bit more into resurrection as a literal ressurection and some kind of spiritual connection was implied. But it still feels pretty vague.

[Gray Lensman]

It will be a cold day in hell before I recognize Synch’s jewelry as a CHARACTER, much less the rightful Laura.

It's got to be horrible to realize that she is written more like Laura than the actual Laura has been since Bendis of all people was still actually writing rather than phoning it in (which would be sometime between BotA and Black Vortex).

[Havok83]

It's got to be horrible to realize that she is written more like Laura than the actual Laura has been since Bendis of all people was still actually writing rather than phoning it in (which would be sometime between BotA and Black Vortex).

she's written more like Laura bc she is the actual Laura, not a XEROX copy

[MakubeX]

I blame Gerry Duggan .

I agree, Duggan is one of the problems now, but didn't Laura's characterization turn the worst under Bendis writing?

Also, Talon is just Synch's main squeeze, nothing more, nothing less. Original Laura or not, Talon does nothing for the X-men but be a love interest.

[a moment closer]

Hopefully, Talon sticks around and we get a book that has a large focus on her and Synch. They are some of the oldest and most experienced X-Men now. They should be leading a team like what we saw in First Strike. A Red Cross/Emergency Services team book, a la Damage Control. A story centered around difficult situations and how they help mitigate the loss of life, as well as lessening any structural and environmental damage, showing the X-Men engaging with the survivors and starting the healing process, with some flashbacks sprinkled in of their survival in the vault and how their situationship developed there. That First Strike one-shot was a breath of fresh air and could really be useful in changing the in-universe oppressive continuous hate that humans have for the mutants. It really was a modern take on what the X-Men should be.

[davetvs]

It will be a cold day in hell before I recognize Synch’s jewelry as a CHARACTER, much less the rightful Laura.

Marvel doesn't care and neither do I.

[marhawkman]

I consider X-23 and Talon acceptable. She's not Wolverine.

[Hakka84]

I admit what little I know about the two I learned by lurking around here on the forums, so I might be wrong.
Even though I think two same characters from two different "eras" shouldn't be running in the X-Corner at the same time, and the inclusion of the second version should be fixed-term... I would sound quite hypocrite, being a fan of the long stay of the teen!timedisplaced!O5.
I don't like that the two character are running around getting both good panel time and I hope Marvel would stop doing that. We have so many characters that aren't even used, do we really need two Lauras (which are, sadly, two Wolverine derivatives)?

Said this, I think they should use Talon for what she is - an experienced warrior. Remove her from the usual titles, get her her own solo or a team that is more fitting to her. Or, at least, a role that takes her further from young!Laura as they can. Perhaps even outside of the X-Corner?4

Also. Perhaps they already did this. But authors should heavily focus on their differences. The experience Talon has should have transformed her in an almost completely different person, so much that - if they didn't mention her name - you shouldn't even recognize her as a "wizened Laura" in the first place. IMHO.
It's just... I'm reaching 39 in few days and I'm so, so different, from the person I was at 20. I can't even imagine what I could be if had spent (150? what was?) years in an harsh environment to then return to the present - that would be, for me, a past, and to discover few months has passed by in said present while I was away.

Ignore the rambling if I got something wrong. As I said - I haven't read the titles with them, just kept broadly updated on their whereabouts.

[Celgress]

I consider X-23 and Talon acceptable. She's not Wolverine.

My thoughts exactly. I prefer Laura to have her own unique identity or at least name.