New Illuminati lineup Spoiler Thanos #1

[Tony Stark]

But the Ultimates, didn't they operated in secret?

Yeah. Although I don’t think anyone else knows about this incarnation.

[mung]

But the Ultimates, didn't they operated in secret?

Nope, First thing he says to Carol is how they can't be like the Illuminati. there is a scene T'challa talking about the team with the secretary general. Not to mention they showed up in crossovers in stuff like regular teams.

[Ultimate Captain America]

That's beside the point. I don't see you complaining about Tony's inclusion, but he's also not in the best position right now.
They're both characters guaranteed to have strong roles in their respective franchises, so that's why they're included. Not because of whatever is happening to them this month.

Right, I forgot about Stark. I thought about him too when I first saw the thread, but I forgot him when I actually had time to write.

In any case, Emma was just a member of a directorial government, not "the" head of state, not even the primus inter pares who calls the shots there. And now she's not even that.

[Factor]

Right, I forgot about Stark. I thought about him too when I first saw the thread, but I forgot him when I actually had time to write.

In any case, Emma was just a member of a directorial government, not "the" head of state, not even the primus inter pares who calls the shots there. And now she's not even that.

Nothing about the team says they have to be a head of state, though. They just need to be influential and powerful figures within their corners of the MU. Emma certainly is that and will continue to be.
Even Reed Richards is not holding a particular position of power. But he is influential, so nobody questions his inclusion.

[Thor-Ul]

Nope, First thing he says to Carol is how they can't be like the Illuminati. there is a scene T'challa talking about the team with the secretary general. Not to mention they showed up in crossovers in stuff like regular teams.

Oh, thanks. I had thought BM's Ultimates had operated in secret. I didn't remembered that part.
But then it is make his ppresence in this Illuminati weird.

[Ultimate Captain America]

In any case, the discussion is pointless. I have just checked the comic. Thanos himself is a cameo, the Illuminati are a cameo, it's all about that uninteresting goth girl from out of nowhere. What a scam.

[dkrook]

The thing with the Illuminati is that they were not meant to be simply just another superhero group, but a secret cabal of superheroes with great influence and clout. Kings like Namor and Black Bolt, leaders on their fields like Stark, Richards, and Strange, and so on. Xavier was not there as the token mutant, he was there as the leader of the mutant community.

Emma Frost and Blue Marvel may be fine as characters in general, but being here is way above their pay grade. If they wanted to have a woman in there to fill some representation quota, it could have been Madelyne Pryor, the queen of hell. And for someone black, Nick Fury would be right at home in a secret cabal like this.

Not sure why a black and a woman would ever be considered a quota of any kind, anyway, but Black Panther should be a default member

[Tofali]

In any case, the discussion is pointless. I have just checked the comic. Thanos himself is a cameo, the Illuminati are a cameo, it's all about that uninteresting goth girl from out of nowhere. What a scam.

It's a freaking BORING comic book. All those pages wasted on lyrics

[JudicatorPrime]

The thing with the Illuminati is that they were not meant to be simply just another superhero group, but a secret cabal of superheroes with great influence and clout. Kings like Namor and Black Bolt, leaders on their fields like Stark, Richards, and Strange, and so on. Xavier was not there as the token mutant, he was there as the leader of the mutant community.

Emma Frost and Blue Marvel may be fine as characters in general, but being here is way above their pay grade. If they wanted to have a woman in there to fill some representation quota, it could have been Madelyne Pryor, the queen of hell. And for someone black, Nick Fury would be right at home in a secret cabal like this.

Thank you! Been telling Marvel for years that they need to do something with Blue Marvel. If not to distinguish him, then to keep him on par with his power elite "peers," who are usually kings, gods, and industry magnates and mavens. But do they do anything with the brotha man? Hell no. And because Marvel writers haven't done a damn thing with him except undercut and diminish him, he sticks out like the token add-on whenever he is used. Not expecting Cantwell to improve on that at all in the upcoming series.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Blue Marvel is just fine in this group in the hands of a writer who isn't Cantwell.

He has decades of experience, scientific knowledge and power on scale with Thor. He's a better fit for a secret group than say, Namor, a loose cannon who is an obstacle to overcome instead of an asset.

(and don't give me 'He's king of Atlantis! They're as useful as towel underwater).

The problem is that Cantwell has written him poorly in the past and I'm certain will do so again. As the strongest there, he's almost certain to get steamrolled by Thanos, and WTF is the point of a secret group when an entire American city has been taken?

[Ultimate Captain America]

Not sure why a black and a woman would ever be considered a quota of any kind, anyway, but Black Panther should be a default member

Some months ago, the Illuminati have appeared in Ultimate Invasion #1. Reed, Namor, Black Panther, Black Bolt, Xavier, Iron Man... and in the thread for it we had users bitching that it was an outrage to have an all-male group, that there has to be female representation, that we have to give subliminal messages to the children, and all that.

Well, there it is. The Illuminati have a female member now. Not that it changes much, so far the Illuminati have been just a cameo and have not done anything character-specific. The story would have been the same and the comic would have sucked with any line-up, either this one or the previous one.

[OldManLogan]

I like this line up. Even if they didn't do much this issue, there will be others, and who knows where they might show up next? Curious about Blue Marvel, never read much about him.

Some months ago, the Illuminati have appeared in Ultimate Invasion #1. Reed, Namor, Black Panther, Black Bolt, Xavier, Iron Man... and in the thread for it we had users bitching that it was an outrage to have an all-male group, that there has to be female representation, that we have to give subliminal messages to the children, and all that.

Well, there it is. The Illuminati have a female member now. Not that it changes much, so far the Illuminati have been just a cameo and have not done anything character-specific. The story would have been the same and the comic would have sucked with any line-up, either this one or the previous one.

Not to sound pedantic, since you already voiced your opinion that the illuminati's formation matters little to this book, but you really think people bitching about lack of female representation in a CBR thread is what led to Emma being part of this lineup? Because I seriously doubt it. We had Black Swan and Medusa as Illuminati before, so if that was the case Marvel would just bring one of those back.

Emma Frost was introduced as a member of a secret society made of influential people pulling the strings behind the scenes in her very first appearance (1979) and remained as such until the 2000s, when she lost the White Queen title. That's 20+ years of her publication story.
Then, she was a member of another secret society in the early 2010's, The Cabal - which was an evil counterpart to the Illuminati, by the way - but the society itself was short-lived. In the late 2010's she restored her position in the Inner circle of the Hellfire Club and in the Krakoa era turned it into the Hellfire Trading Company.
That is to say, Emma Frost has been a part of a secret society made of influential people ever since her introduction... and that's what the Illuminati are. This is literally her modus operandi, she's right at home with this team IMO. In fact, being a part of a society like this was part of her character decades before it became a thing for any of the original Illuminati. I'm surprised it took Marvel this long to put her on this team.

This is also not without precedent. Hickman wanted her as part of his Illuminati team a decade ago, but because she was part of Bendis' X-Men team she was off-limits to him. So writers considering her for this team isn't a new concept.

[Sutekh]

The Illuminatti is a concept that I really wish they would just let go. All it does is make whoever is involved in it look worse and mess up things for everybody else.

That is true, which is why I don't mind Emma being part of it, because she's always been sketchy and 'superior' and this is just another Hellfire Club to her. I love the character, but she's never been 100% 'heroic' by nature. She's got layers. Tony and Reed, unfortunately, have drunk that 'I'm smarter so I should make decisions for everyone else' kool-aid as well, so it's in-character for them as well. They may be heroes, but also tend to buy their own hype and think papa knows best, and y'all should sit back and let them be the decider. Dr. Strange is somewhat less elitist, even if he's not exactly Captain America levels of egalitarian (and not Namor levels of egotistical!), so it's not totally out of character for him, but not nearly as good a fit.

But Adam Brashear? Really, really an odd fit, personality-wise. He seems like the sort who'd only join such a group to keep an eye on the others and try to vote them away from anything *too* over-the-top. (Like the terrible choices Illuminati groups have made in the past...)

[king of hybrids]

In fairness the biggest issue with the Illuminati is that, from the moment Bendis created them, is that even by the abysmal standards of secret hero cabals they are woefully useless.

[The Cool Thatguy]

In fairness the biggest issue with the Illuminati is that, from the moment Bendis created them, is that even by the abysmal standards of secret hero cabals they are woefully useless.

I know, rite?

They tried to tell the skrulls to back the f*ck off, and get punked, and instigate Secret Invasion.

They banished Hulk, and well...

The less said about that dumb Beyonder reveal, the better

The only good thing they did was declaw Grant Morrison's Marvel Boy.

I never understood the logic of their chosen members, either.

Namor and BB might be kings, but no one listens to them (no pun intended). They would have had zero pull on the hero community, and can barely use the resources of their own kingdom at the best of times.

Dr. Strange makes a certain degree of sense, but the crap he handles he doesn't need the others for.

Really, Bendis just read Identity Crisis and said to himself 'I wanna do that!', and we're still paying for it today.