New Illuminati lineup Spoiler Thanos #1

[JudicatorPrime]

I am not against White Queen on the grounds of the sexual issues around her/influence. I don't like it when men or women are/aren't held to unrealistic standards when it comes to love, marriage etc. I believe in polyamory.

Regardless,

why not go with someone like MoonDragon? Now here would be someone to add conflict and grist to 'any' gathering.

Formidable telepath etc. Female

represents a more cosmic or space oriented region of cooperation.

I concur. Moondragon would have been perfect. But I don't honestly know how Cantwell would write her...and maybe we're lucky she's not on this team.

[Oberon]

I think I like Blue Marvel as an Illuminati. Of any of them how much do we know about what he has been doing from his origin to the turn of the century? It wouldn’t surprise me to know he’s been busy since he was discarded as a black man superhero and was doing things in the background much like the Black Panther. I wouldn’t be surprised if T’Challa and Blue Marvel had been secretly cooperating all this time. After all, how surprised were we to find out Nick Fury was the man on the wall?

I would be interested to find out Blue Marvel had some secrets on a level like Nick Fury. How would you feel if the country you live in rejected you on the basis of your colour? I’d certainly try to effect society in some way secretly. I would have a few hangups due to that situation.

Ever since I learnt of Blue Marvels situation I had thought “What does a guy feel in that situation?” My feeling was I’d be extremely pissed to be treated like that.

Very good point. Blue Marvel has a perfect case for being "around" during some big events over the last 60 years, as well as possibly rewriting our understanding of them.

Interactions, covert or otherwise with parents or grandparents of heroes or scientists of today... etc.

[PowerPlay25]

I know LOL! She was the b

est they could do? I know that X-fans worship the ground the character walks on but I have never found her to be that impressive. She wasn't the best member of The Hellfire Club nor was she the best queen

Believe it or not some X-fans agree with you. I for one just want the Zsa Zsa Gabor parody to take her "Darlings" and Go away. If they wanted a femme fatale I would have preferred a real one like Viper or Natasha.

[Alan2099]

est they could do? I know that X-fans worship the ground the character walks on but I have never found her to be that impressive. She wasn't the best member of The Hellfire Club nor was she the best queen

I think White Queen was at her absolute best during her Generation X days. She was trying to adjust to being a good person while still having an edge to her. She was facing the facts that she was getting older and didn't command the respect she once did, and whenever she started to push things too far, Banshee would have a few words with her about how wrong she was and she generally had to agree (even if she hated it). She really felt like she was growing as a character.

Then she joined the X-men and all of that was forgotten. She got younger too.

[JudicatorPrime]

I think I like Blue Marvel as an Illuminati. Of any of them how much do we know about what he has been doing from his origin to the turn of the century? It wouldn’t surprise me to know he’s been busy since he was discarded as a black man superhero and was doing things in the background much like the Black Panther. I wouldn’t be surprised if T’Challa and Blue Marvel had been secretly cooperating all this time. After all, how surprised were we to find out Nick Fury was the man on the wall?

I would be interested to find out Blue Marvel had some secrets on a level like Nick Fury. How would you feel if the country you live in rejected you on the basis of your colour? I’d certainly try to effect society in some way secretly. I would have a few hangups due to that situation.

Ever since I learnt of Blue Marvels situation I had thought “What does a guy feel in that situation?” My feeling was I’d be extremely pissed to be treated like that.

Some good points here.

I've argued in other threads that even if the USA ended Blue Marvel's career in that country, I don't quite understand how that would prevent him from continuing to be a hero for the rest of the world, especially since his base of operations, Kadesh, is in international waters. Cynically, I think writers pen stories to the lowest IQ of its readership in order to make the logic of their narratives viable. But the more likely outcome of the US legally banning Blue Marvel would be that he would continue his humanitarian efforts around the world. After all, many of the greatest threats this fictional Earth has faced didn't observe borders. They came from all over the planet, and in many cases, off-world.

If we frame Blue Marvel's history in that light, then yes, he'd have a remarkable number of untold adventures and insights simply because he was probably the most powerful man on the entire planet for decades. Heck, if Marvel wants to give us an Illuminati book, why not bring us a series introducing a precursor for that group starring Blue Marvel, the Ancient One, Agatha Harkness, T'Chaka, Venus, the High Evolutionary and the Black Knight (the ghost of Sir Percy) or something like that? But I get it: that book wouldn't sell.

Although I still believe that Adam would absolutely refuse to join a cabal like the Illuminati, I guess I should be happy that he's appearing somewhere. They haven't quite relegated him to limbo just yet.

[Frontier]

I think White Queen was at her absolute best during her Generation X days. She was trying to adjust to being a good person while still having an edge to her. She was facing the facts that she was getting older and didn't command the respect she once did, and whenever she started to push things too far, Banshee would have a few words with her about how wrong she was and she generally had to agree (even if she hated it). She really felt like she was growing as a character.

Then she joined the X-men and all of that was forgotten. She got younger too.

Well, she was still kind of like that even with the X-Men.

[Tendrin]

I've argued in other threads that even if the USA ended Blue Marvel's career in that country, I don't quite understand how that would prevent him from continuing to be a hero for the rest of the world, especially since his base of operations, Kadesh, is in international waters. Cynically, I think writers pen stories to the lowest IQ of its readership in order to make the logic of their narratives viable. But the more likely outcome of the US legally banning Blue Marvel would be that he would continue his humanitarian efforts around the world. After all, many of the greatest threats this fictional Earth has faced didn't observe borders. They came from all over the planet, and in many cases, off-world.

Think about the backlash to Sentry and how many fans screamed about howi he 'changed all their favorite events forever' for years on end, even if that *never actually happened*. They don't want to open that door and cause Blue Marvel to suffer the same whine.

[Will Evans]

Maybe the number of iLLuminati is too small?

Black Panther should def be on. So should Namor. There a few others of course.

Maybe Illuminati should not be so secret (name change) and should have rotational abilities and a fluid number not less than 6 or 7 members?

Seems they aren’t going for Kings in this incarnation.
So no T’Challa, Namor or Black Bolt

[Oberon]

Seems they aren’t going for Kings in this incarnation.
So no T’Challa, Namor or Black Bolt

My best friend says I'm the most ambivalent person they've ever known.

And now I think they should defnitely not be a comic, but just recurring characters. Maybe it should be an in-joke, no one thinks anything of them (worthless)
I'm not being fair, I have to read this and maybe the next.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Seems they aren’t going for Kings in this incarnation.
So no T’Challa, Namor or Black Bolt

Other than T'Challa, kings really didn't bring much to the group

[JudicatorPrime]

Think about the backlash to Sentry and how many fans screamed about howi he 'changed all their favorite events forever' for years on end, even if that *never actually happened*. They don't want to open that door and cause Blue Marvel to suffer the same whine.

Well, that always depends on the writers. It doesn't take a brilliant one to use Blue Marvel or Sentry in a way that makes them a bridge between eras, as opposed to canon killers. You just have to introduce unique stories and leave the rest to the audience's imagination...as they did when they retconned the Invaders into Marvel's historical existence. Or any of the antediluvian characters like Conan, Red Sonja, Kull, etc.

The simple reality is that it's quite normal for us to forget our own history and events. Sometimes when we try to recollect, it's only after the fact that we realize that there may have been other factors that played a part in our collective past. Because of our own human limitations, we're not always aware of those initial conditions and seed values, although subjectively, we'd like to think that we are. As long as a writer artfully takes advantage of that in introducing a historical "deviation," the end product should be net positive.

Oh sure, there will always be fans who hate it when you mess with established history. But if you carve out the right segment in a timeline, you'll come out a winner. Just look at Wolverine, who every time we turn around is getting a new retcon encapsulating some historical event or connection that he impacted. No one ever seems to complain about that. Ever.

You could do the same with Blue Marvel. Marvel really ought to, given the era and community that his presence affected.

[lefthanded]

Not sure why people are so anti-Emma Frost being part of the Illuminati.

1. She was already part of the Cabal, which was Osborn's version of the Illuminati.
2. She has consistently been part of the leadership for mutants, and so is a good representative. After Xavier, the only mutant telepath in a leadership type position is... Jean Grey. With her morals, Jean would not be part of the Illuminati. Other mutant telepaths either do not have an influential leadership type role or lean more towards the evil side of the spectrum.

The Goblin Queen has been floated as an option, but she is unreliable, does not really inspire other mutants to follow her, and cannot be trusted to do what is best in terms of the big picture (for the Illuminati or for mutants).

If you go for non-telepathic mutant leaders, no one else really has the flexible morals to be in the Illuminati (Storm, Nightcrawler, etc).

Magneto would be the best option, but he is dead.

I agree that it is annoying that writers keep oversaturating Emma everywhere, but you can't deny that she is qualified for the role. Had writers done enough developing the character over the years, I would argue that Dani Moonstar would be a good mutant leader representative.

[JudicatorPrime]

Not sure why people are so anti-Emma Frost being part of the Illuminati.

1. She was already part of the Cabal, which was Osborn's version of the Illuminati.
2. She has consistently been part of the leadership for mutants, and so is a good representative. After Xavier, the only mutant telepath in a leadership type position is... Jean Grey. With her morals, Jean would not be part of the Illuminati. Other mutant telepaths either do not have an influential leadership type role or lean more towards the evil side of the spectrum.

The Goblin Queen has been floated as an option, but she is unreliable, does not really inspire other mutants to follow her, and cannot be trusted to do what is best in terms of the big picture (for the Illuminati or for mutants).

If you go for non-telepathic mutant leaders, no one else really has the flexible morals to be in the Illuminati (Storm, Nightcrawler, etc).

Magneto would be the best option, but he is dead.

I agree that it is annoying that writers keep oversaturating Emma everywhere, but you can't deny that she is qualified for the role. Had writers done enough developing the character over the years, I would argue that Dani Moonstar would be a good mutant leader representative.

Emma being part of the Illuminati is not a deal breaker imho, since we were first introduced to her as a key member of another powerful cabal, the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle. The Illuminati would be right up her alley. But I also think that someone like Mystique or even Destiny would fit in that role, too, even though they aren't necessarily telepaths. The aforementioned Moondragon works as well.

At the end of the day, Cantwell wanted to work with characters that he's written previously. Safe bet, he has unfinished plans for Emma. For all of them, really. Hope he nails it this time.

[Oberon]

Emma being part of the Illuminati is not a deal breaker imho, since we were first introduced to her as a key member of another powerful cabal, the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle. The Illuminati would be right up her alley. But I also think that someone like Mystique or even Destiny would fit in that role, too, even though they aren't necessarily telepaths. The aforementioned Moondragon works as well.

At the end of the day, Cantwell wanted to work with characters that he's written previously. Safe bet, he has unfinished plans for Emma. For all of them, really. Hope he nails it this time.

Well, at the end of my day, Emma is not a deal breaker either. With her relationship to Iron Man (they did get married, right?) that brings a sufficient level of soap to interest me. LOL.
I actually now think it would be interesting to have a story where Moon Dragon does interact with them, and possibly we see a dual of the minds between her and Emma.
I'm so little familar with Blue Marvel but still find him interesting as well as his own interactions of soap ness with Reed or Tony

but I do not know where he interacted with previous stories as either a retcon or just unknown fact.

Long ago a Dr. Strange story revisited a West Coast Avengers story which was revisiting a very old Fantastic Four story.

So in a sideways or other kind of way, I'd like to see if Blue Marvel has done similar or anyone else even.

[The Cool Thatguy]

When did Cantwell write Emma, anyways?