Is hard work a thing of the past?

[mortari]

I thought I already replied to this thread but I don't see it. my apologies if I'm repeating myself.
I've been working for a national garage door company for about 2 1/2 years. I've been the customer service department. When I started working there they had about 20 employees. Last Christmas about 6 people who had been with the company for 10+ years all quit. My supervisor had been with the company 22 years, she passed away about then. For the last year Management has been just expecting me to handle everything that the other people we're doing and just keep going.
My old boss let me read when I was done with everything and just waiting for calls, also they leaned heavy on the causal part of business causal. It wasn't a great job but there were a few perks, my new supervisor yells. they spent $1000's redecorating this empty building and the warehouse. The warehouse went for 6+ people to 3. I asked my new supervisor if they were going invest back into the employees that were left, they said NO and they took away my reading privilege, then during the last sale team employee meeting my supervisor ran out and stopped my car by standing in front of when I was trying to drive away. He started pounding on my passenger side window. He said I was dressed to causal for the meeting and it was unacceptable. He insisted I get new clothes. I told a few of the people what happened the next day (no one thought it didn't sound like him). Finally, they convinced me to let HIS boss know what happened. The next Monday, I had to talk to Building Operations person and he said he'd look into it for me. 3 days later they let me go, with 5 weeks severance. When I mentioned that my contract with the company said that they couldn't just fire me without giving me 60 days notice, they didn't know what I was talking about. I had to get a lawyer, He talked to them. It took 8 weeks but they are paying me for the 60 days and 5 weeks and because they didn't check first to see if had a contract, where they could have just given my 60 notice and cut me free. they are paying me to sit at home read while I look for a new job. And the package with the NDA they had me sign only means I can't talk about the Garage Door tech but I tell me work story to anyone who wants it.
This is why it looks like people aren't working as hard as they used too. Management rarely has your back.

[DanMad1977]

It certainly makes sense that you're going to be more invested in your company than the people who work for you would be.

There may be potential differences with the labor situation in Germany, but I wonder if it there is an issue with misaligned incentives.

If people work harder, they could get paid more. Maybe instead of salary increases, it would be bonuses, so that there's a constant incentive.

Maybe there are ways for them to benefit from the company's success, like stock options.

There may be ways to offer other benefits, like paying people for results rather than time (obviously this doesn't always work- some jobs like security guards require people to be present.)

The labor situation is not much different. There are good ideas coming from you, I will consider it.

And yes, a business owner is always more invested in his company than any employe. I know that if I were an employe I wouldn't do what I am doing today. And I would call in sick, when I have the flu. And I would want to be home or in the gym in the afternoon, and not in the night.

[DanMad1977]

I thought I already replied to this thread but I don't see it. my apologies if I'm repeating myself.
I've been working for a national garage door company for about 2 1/2 years. I've been the customer service department. When I started working there they had about 20 employees. Last Christmas about 6 people who had been with the company for 10+ years all quit. My supervisor had been with the company 22 years, she passed away about then. For the last year Management has been just expecting me to handle everything that the other people we're doing and just keep going.
My old boss let me read when I was done with everything and just waiting for calls, also they leaned heavy on the causal part of business causal. It wasn't a great job but there were a few perks, my new supervisor yells. they spent $1000's redecorating this empty building and the warehouse. The warehouse went for 6+ people to 3. I asked my new supervisor if they were going invest back into the employees that were left, they said NO and they took away my reading privilege, then during the last sale team employee meeting my supervisor ran out and stopped my car by standing in front of when I was trying to drive away. He started pounding on my passenger side window. He said I was dressed to causal for the meeting and it was unacceptable. He insisted I get new clothes. I told a few of the people what happened the next day (no one thought it didn't sound like him). Finally, they convinced me to let HIS boss know what happened. The next Monday, I had to talk to Building Operations person and he said he'd look into it for me. 3 days later they let me go, with 5 weeks severance. When I mentioned that my contract with the company said that they couldn't just fire me without giving me 60 days notice, they didn't know what I was talking about. I had to get a lawyer, He talked to them. It took 8 weeks but they are paying me for the 60 days and 5 weeks and because they didn't check first to see if had a contract, where they could have just given my 60 notice and cut me free. they are paying me to sit at home read while I look for a new job. And the package with the NDA they had me sign only means I can't talk about the Garage Door tech but I tell me work story to anyone who wants it.
This is why it looks like people aren't working as hard as they used too. Management rarely has your back.

Interesting story from you. A bit hard to read. It reads as if you were really angry and upset when you wrote it.

Management in big cooperations are mostly cold. You are more of a number, than a human being. Its the nature of the beast, I would say. No guarantee, but the smaller it gets the more personal it gets. (mostly)

[godisawesome]

Interesting story from you. A bit hard to read. It reads as if you were really angry and upset when you wrote it.

Management in big cooperations are mostly cold. You are more of a number, than a human being. Its the nature of the beast, I would say. No guarantee, but the smaller it gets the more personal it gets. (mostly)

I listened to a podcast talking about Jack Welch (AKA "The Man Who Broke Capitalism") and how he arguably created the modern CEO and management mindset of treating everything like a spreadsheet game, and treating all workers like cogs and "tokens" to be spent or edited in Column B to make sure Column D showed an increase at a convenient time. That likely exacerbated the already removed and disconnected relationship between management and labor.

The personal relationship of smaller businesses (or even just smaller operations) tends to make everything more personal for good or ill - a local manager can still be tone deaf, but there's more of a direct "line of sight" between how treating workers impacts the business.

[thwhtGuardian]

In an interview, venture capitalist and political consultant Bradley Tusk had an interesting point on the conflict here. His view is that some people want irreconcilable things: they want a healthy work-life balance and the trappings of success that come after working ridiculously hard.

I think this is instructive.

It gets to weird impressions.

Some people want to be really successful, and aren't willing to put in the work.

There are some others who are satisfied at a particular level, and that confuses some of their colleagues who wonder why they don't want more.

Nah, what people want is to be able to afford the bare necessities, raise a family and not be afraid that if they get sick they'll go broke. Those aren't the "trappings of success" and they aren't irreconcilable with a healthy work-life balance.

[Gray Lensman]

Nah, what people want is to be able to afford the bare necessities, raise a family and not be afraid that if they get sick they'll go broke. Those aren't the "trappings of success" and they aren't irreconcilable with a healthy work-life balance.

That's basically what I want. I want enough to afford the requirements of life, some degree of comfort, and to not be afraid that one surprise illness or breakdown in the home or vehicle will result in cutting back to the bare minimum in order to avoid bankruptcy - if that is even possible. I don't want a mansion, as someone is going to have to clean the damned thing. I don't want a high end luxury car, or an expensive sports car, but would like to upgrade to a midsized crossover like a Subaru Outback or a Hyundai Tuscon. Maybe even a plug-in hybrid version thereof, as I live in the perfect environment to take advantage of one. I'd even like to be able to afford a plane-trip vacation every year or two - not to the far corners of the globe, but to areas my extended family and friends have ended up living in across the country. You know, the middle class lifestyle I remember as a kid.

Incredible wealth isn't something I really crave, as in the end, a person only needs so much money. You can't wear it, eat it, or make love to it. Once you have enough for your needs, some modest desires, and enough left over to ensure your financial security, the rest is basically trash. If it doesn't do any good for anybody outside of bragging rights, it's trash.

[mortari]

Interesting story from you. A bit hard to read. It reads as if you were really angry and upset when you wrote it.

Management in big cooperations are mostly cold. You are more of a number, than a human being. Its the nature of the beast, I would say. No guarantee, but the smaller it gets the more personal it gets. (mostly)

I didn't pre type, usually I'll through these in a word doc, proof read it and copy paste, when I like I typed

[Totoro Man]

I didn't pre type, usually I'll through these in a word doc, proof read it and copy paste, when I like I typed

I used to do that sometimes... although I used a simple text document and double spaced or put three asterisks between paragraphs to help me improve the layout after pasting.

I only did that if I felt like what I was writing was complicated enough that I needed to sort it out offline.

[Mister Mets]

I thought I already replied to this thread but I don't see it. my apologies if I'm repeating myself.
I've been working for a national garage door company for about 2 1/2 years. I've been the customer service department. When I started working there they had about 20 employees. Last Christmas about 6 people who had been with the company for 10+ years all quit. My supervisor had been with the company 22 years, she passed away about then. For the last year Management has been just expecting me to handle everything that the other people we're doing and just keep going.
My old boss let me read when I was done with everything and just waiting for calls, also they leaned heavy on the causal part of business causal. It wasn't a great job but there were a few perks, my new supervisor yells. they spent $1000's redecorating this empty building and the warehouse. The warehouse went for 6+ people to 3. I asked my new supervisor if they were going invest back into the employees that were left, they said NO and they took away my reading privilege, then during the last sale team employee meeting my supervisor ran out and stopped my car by standing in front of when I was trying to drive away. He started pounding on my passenger side window. He said I was dressed to causal for the meeting and it was unacceptable. He insisted I get new clothes. I told a few of the people what happened the next day (no one thought it didn't sound like him). Finally, they convinced me to let HIS boss know what happened. The next Monday, I had to talk to Building Operations person and he said he'd look into it for me. 3 days later they let me go, with 5 weeks severance. When I mentioned that my contract with the company said that they couldn't just fire me without giving me 60 days notice, they didn't know what I was talking about. I had to get a lawyer, He talked to them. It took 8 weeks but they are paying me for the 60 days and 5 weeks and because they didn't check first to see if had a contract, where they could have just given my 60 notice and cut me free. they are paying me to sit at home read while I look for a new job. And the package with the NDA they had me sign only means I can't talk about the Garage Door tech but I tell me work story to anyone who wants it.
This is why it looks like people aren't working as hard as they used too. Management rarely has your back.

I'm sorry to hear that. Best of luck with the job hunt.

It's dumb how badly they misunderstood their own agreements.

This does get to a modern problem in labor. New leaders will change policies, often not realizing the things that worked in the past. There isn't much job security, as companies are purchased by new owners who try to get around existing contracts, and changes in technology make jobs redundant.

I listened to a podcast talking about Jack Welch (AKA "The Man Who Broke Capitalism") and how he arguably created the modern CEO and management mindset of treating everything like a spreadsheet game, and treating all workers like cogs and "tokens" to be spent or edited in Column B to make sure Column D showed an increase at a convenient time. That likely exacerbated the already removed and disconnected relationship between management and labor.

The personal relationship of smaller businesses (or even just smaller operations) tends to make everything more personal for good or ill - a local manager can still be tone deaf, but there's more of a direct "line of sight" between how treating workers impacts the business.

I don't know how meaningful Jack Welch is. People were always going to realize ways they could make more money.

Small businesses have some additional issues. There's much less stability, since small businesses can fail. There are also concrete limits on spending.

Nah, what people want is to be able to afford the bare necessities, raise a family and not be afraid that if they get sick they'll go broke. Those aren't the "trappings of success" and they aren't irreconcilable with a healthy work-life balance.

I wouldn't say that everyone wants the same thing, but it is worth considering the group that says they want the basic necessities.

In some cases, it may be a self-serving argument as one person's definition of necessities.

There is a problem that some things are really expensive that can be seen as necessities, like rent, child-care, higher education, health insurance and home health care. The solutions here aren't really about working hard, or changing labor laws because it's more about why these things are expensive, rather than why the middle-class can't afford them. Much of it's based on supply and demand.

Anything that is labor-intensive is going to be expensive, especially when you add minimum wage and further regulations. This can be worth the tradeoff, but it is a tradeoff. And if it's subsidized, that money has to come from somewhere.

The situations are more about regulations.

Every unnecessary requirement makes college degrees and health insurance premiums more expensive. Giving people the option of paying for the most essential services will mean it won't be so expensive to afford the bare necessities (and it should lower the price of other plans since those plans would have to offer something worthwhile.)

The big problem with rent is that there isn't enough supply. If you reduce regulations so that there anybody who wants a one bedroom apartment with decent public transportation options in New York City or San Francisco can get one for a $1,000 a month (and a two-bedroom from $1,500), the cost of shelter would be much lower. The increased supply should also make it possible for people to buy houses in decent areas.

[DrNewGod]

The Wall Street Journal had an interesting piece on how boys are intellectually falling behind, as a result of falling prey to distractions and other ADHD-fueling influences at a greater rate than girls. I wonder how much any perceivable change in work ethic might be traced to a failure to train youth to focus?

I listened to a podcast talking about Jack Welch (AKA "The Man Who Broke Capitalism") and how he arguably created the modern CEO and management mindset of treating everything like a spreadsheet game, and treating all workers like cogs and "tokens" to be spent or edited in Column B to make sure Column D showed an increase at a convenient time. That likely exacerbated the already removed and disconnected relationship between management and labor.

A lot of business ethics researchers attribute that to "the Freidman Doctorine," from which the term "Shareholder Value" was coined in the early 1970s. The Wharton School, in particular, dove heavily into it on its publication, and most business schools followed suit. It's resulted in generations of MBAs convinced that owner's equity outweighs all other concerns.