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  1. #1
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Default Jean Grey #4 (2023) Review *spoilers*

    Jean is surrounded by her various facets—Marvel Girl, time-displaced teenage Jean, Jean before she piloted the shuttle to safety, Dark Phoenix, Madelyne Pryor, Jean during her New X-Men and X-Men Red days, et al.—all of them brimming with fury and desperate to remind her that she, along with everyone else, is dead. Marvel Girl says to her, “And it’s your fault. Or that’s what you keep telling yourself.” Jean responds, “It isn’t fair. I tried…so hard.” New X-Men Jean retorts, “Life isn’t fair. Why should death be? And, fair or not, you’re dead!”



    As Jean ascends toward an ethereal light, her facets struggling to pull her back down, she responds, “No. Not quite. Not permanently. Maybe…” Suddenly, she winces as if in pain, “Why are you all so angry? It can’t be just because we’re dead. We’ve been dead before.” She turns to see herself as she was right before she piloted the shuttle. Shuttle Jean asks, “Don’t you get it? We’re figments of your past. Fragments of your nightmares.” Madelyne continues, “Products of imaginary stories you’ve been telling yourself. None of this is real. But then…I was never real.”

    Phoenix, in all of its fiery glory, ascends, with Jean positioned at its heart, flanked by Madelyne and Shuttle Jean, or really, Marvel Girl. “Except here,” Phoenix clarifies. “In the White Hot Room, everything is real…in its own way.” Jean asks, “What do you mean?” Time-displaced teenage Jean responds, “You’re joking, right? I saw a dozen realities. And my gut said—forget them all!” She goes on to detail how Jean preventing her from erasing the X-Men’s memories of the future eventually caused everyone’s deaths. “You should have trusted me! You’re mad at yourself,” she exclaims before overwhelming Jean with Phoenix fire.

    Next, Marvel Girl approaches Jean. “Why did you force that nightmare on me,” she asks. “Scott dead. Wolverine dead.” Jean responds, “[I thought] Maybe it would have been better if someone else was in charge. Maybe it wasn’t all up to me.” Marvel Girl retorts, “Whereas, in reality, the Phoenix had hidden your body, and while you healed, it took on your aspect…until your true will asserted itself and stopped it. You died, of course…But that wasn’t the end…All was restored. How is that terrible?” Jean responds, “Because of what came afterward! Impulsive arrogance didn’t work. So I tried logic.” Now, Jean/Phoenix responds, “And set them up to die. Not everyone—just your dearest loves…”

    Jean, in the midst of attacking and before replying to Jean/Phoenix, is approached by Madelyne, who continues, “From that perspective, the reality was so much kinder…to you, anyway. Surely you haven’t forgotten about me, as much as you all would rather?” Jean responds, “Maddie. Madelyne Summers. Scott’s wife. My clone.” Madelyne continues, “Mr. Sinister’s broodmare. Mother of the Mutant Nathan Christopher renamed Cable.” Madelyne then describes how she was “given free reign over a techno-organically transformed world” in Jean’s previously created alternate reality. She goes on to note that Jean rejecting Phoenix caused both her initial emergence in the current continuity and the aforementioned alternate reality’s destruction.

    Suddenly, Jean manifests a pink Phoenix raptor, her words outlined in red and awash in gold just like Phoenix’s throughout this and previous issues. She says, “So now you’re saying I should have made a different choice? Accepted the Dark Phoenix, tainted as it was, with the deaths of millions…because that would have spared you? It would have cut the drama. But would you have been better off? Lacking power from any source…never alive? …Never feeling? No Scott? No baby Nathan? No kingdom to rule in Hell?” Madelyne responds, “Now you’re getting it. We have fine minds, as minds go. But that’s not our greatest asset. Heart. Depth of feeling. That’s what called the Phoenix to us. Love is what you’re all about. I have…other priorities.” Jean interrupts, “Inferno happened. For better or worse.” Madelyne, naked, collapses in Jean’s arms. Jean continues, “And it’s not the worst thing we’ve had to face. Life is a process, however you’re created. We all learn…even you. Even me,” Jean says, cradling Madelyne.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Once again, Phoenix rises and speaks directly to Jean. “That’s better. You’ve been creating worlds to prove you had no choice. Nightmare tales about how we—you and I—brought death and destruction. How you were damned if you did. Damned if you didn’t. All paths lead to death. Is this really the story you wanted to tell yourself? Your dreams, so much more terrible than even this reality.”

    Suddenly, Jean’s various facets point out, “You’re starting to awaken, aren’t you? You’re starting to remember.” Jean recounts the events of the Hellfire Gala, how Orchis attacked, and how she tried to protect and save all mutants. And how she failed. “Why…didn’t you come to me,” Jean asks Phoenix, now appearing as a small raptor in the palm of her hand. “How could I? I’m as dead now as you are. Like you, I exist only here—a nexus between all Phoenix hosts and our eternal flame. I’m bits and pieces. Inactive. The White Hot Room is the heart of the Phoenix, and it is broken. Why do you think I encouraged those terrible images where, when you changed things, everything went wrong? What did you think I was trying to tell you?”

    Jean responds, “My instinctive choices were right. My impulse was true.” Phoenix continues, “You did all you could…and more. But there were other forces at play. Even you, powerful though you are, can’t control everything.” Jean responds, “And…no matter what choices we make, in the end, death claims us all? But not us. At least, not yet. Not completely.” The small Phoenix raptor takes flight and circles around Jean, who continues, “We’re not alone here. And there’s one more thing we can do. Shall we do it together,” Jean asks as the small Phoenix raptor lands on her hand, their energies co-mingling.

    Suddenly, Jean sees Apocalypse confronting and proclaiming to Hope and Exodus, “Now you know. You are the mutant chalice where the future will be wrought. You must pass—or else all ends.” Jean says to herself and Phoenix, “Apocalypse. Threatening someone smaller than himself. Somehow that figures. Look at me,” she says, taking stock of her chained body. “I’m a mess. Hardly alive—probably not even that for long. And poor Hope…it’s up to her now. Welcome to the White Hot Room.” Hope says to Exodus, “Okay, Exodus. We’re in the White Hot Room. What does that mean?” Exodus responds, “It is a higher realm. Spiritual. I have often thought it akin to the Tiphareth, from the Kabbalah.” Jean notes, “Not bad. Sounds like Exodus knows his stuff. Hope’s basic power is to mimic the abilities of those near her. There may be something we can do…together. One last gambit.”

    Jean awakens Phoenix’s powers within her chained body, and suddenly, Hope manifests Phoenix wings and a flaming sword. Chained Jean says, “Hope…wings of fire. Phoenix fire. Blinding…”

    As Jean observes Hope, Exodus, Apocalypse, and her chained self, Phoenix, perched on her hand, asks her, “Did it work?” Jean responds, “No longer am I the woman you knew? I am fire and life incarnate? Now and forever—I am Phoenix? Who knows? Maybe. That or…something else. At least we did no harm.” Phoenix knowingly retorts, “So sure of yourself. So arrogant,” as if privately noting something that should be obvious to Jean by now.

    Jean responds, “Just following my gut. You know this isn’t over. Not for them. Not for us. But what comes next—be it life or death—we face it together.”



    The End?
    Last edited by Mercury; 11-15-2023 at 07:11 AM.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  2. #2
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    My thoughts: First and foremost, this issue was powerful, moving, cinematic, and thought-provoking—the capstone on a cautionary tale of losing love, trust, and faith in oneself AND the first steps on the path to gaining it all back—while also being elusive and mystifying in the best possible ways. Frankly, I was overwhelmed by it upon my first read-through. Immediately, I knew the story presented both overt and subtle hints and revelations that would take me a second and maybe even a third read-through to catch, but I wasn't prepared for how profound those hints and revelations would be. Here is some of what I've caught:

    (1) One thing that immediately struck me about the first and last issues in this series is the strategic use of dialogue balloons. In both issues, at pivotal points in the story, Jean's dialogue balloons are identical to Phoenix's, i.e., they're outlined in red and colored gold, even when she's seemingly not "bonded" with it. I think this is both purposeful and indicative of their intrinsic connection.

    (2) While Jean from issue #2—an alternate reality Jean who took Logan's advice and allowed him to pilot the shuttle (she could also be viewed as an aspect of current Jean's own psyche)—states, "Phoenix had hidden your body, and while you healed, taken on your aspect," she also asserts, "Your true will asserted itself and stopped it. **You died, of course.**” Seeming contradictions like this thrill me because they underscore how vast and multitudinous Jean is. In other words, if Phoenix had truly replaced Jean and was operating from a simple template or clone of her rather than bonded and imbued with her "aspect," Jean wouldn't have died. It's as if Simonson is establishing or underscoring that Jean's psyche was split between her Phoenix body and cocooned body, much like her mind is split between bodies and realities in this series.

    (3) Jean's pink Phoenix raptor, which coincides with her dialogue bubbles mirroring Phoenix's... 'Nuff said.

    (4) The moment when Jean, crying, asks Phoenix, "Why...didn't you come to me?" Not only does this seem like a direct response—a diametrically opposed stance—to Jean's attitude toward Phoenix in Phoenix Resurrection, but Phoenix's response to Jean's question is also telling: "How could I? I am as dead now as you are. **Like you, I exist only here**--a nexus between all Phoenix hosts and **our eternal flame.**" These statements' meanings and assertions are pretty clear to me. The statements that follow are more open to interpretation but still rather striking: "I'm bits and pieces. Inactive. The White Hot Room is the **heart of the Phoenix**, and it is broken." Where did Jean get stabbed? **In the heart.**

    (5) Jean's ability to give Hope access to Phoenix by giving it back to herself, i.e., her chained body, underscores Jean's intrinsic connection to Phoenix. Afterward, Phoenix's response to Jean passing on her abilities to Hope and wondering/stating the following is very telling: "No longer am I the woman you knew? I am fire and life incarnate? Now and forever--I am Phoenix? Who knows? Maybe. That...or something else. At least we did no harm." Phoenix retorts, "So sure of yourself. So arrogant," as if hinting at the fact that Jean hasn't learned her lesson because, yet again, she's passed on her abilities—her identity—to someone else. Delicious.

    (6) To me, Jean's final response to Phoenix is most telling. "You know this isn't over. Not for **them**. **Not for us.** But what comes next--be it life or death--we face it **together.**" I find it telling that Jean distinguishes Phoenix and herself from the other mutants, i.e., from "them."

    If you ask me, this issue constitutes the prologue to Jean's real journey, which will likely begin to unfold in Immortal X-Men 17 and 18 and culminate in X-Men Forever.
    Last edited by Mercury; 11-15-2023 at 07:12 AM.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  3. #3
    Incredible Member PhoenixStudies's Avatar
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    Ok, so when Jean says this...

    "No longer am I the woman you knew? I am fire and life incarnate? Now and forever--I am Phoenix? Who knows? Maybe. That...or something else. At least we did no harm."

    Is she talking about Hope or herself? She doesn't know if this (allowing Hope to mimic her power) will make Hope a real Phoenix or something else? Or she's not sure if she (Jean) is becoming (a typical) Phoenix again or something else (still with the Phoenix)?

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Tenebrae's Avatar
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    This mini is a very good example of, "it could have been an email". A lot of filler for not a lot of substance. A one shot or issues in an ongoing would have served it better.
    Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating

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  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Braxxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixStudies View Post
    Ok, so when Jean says this...

    "No longer am I the woman you knew? I am fire and life incarnate? Now and forever--I am Phoenix? Who knows? Maybe. That...or something else. At least we did no harm."

    Is she talking about Hope or herself? She doesn't know if this (allowing Hope to mimic her power) will make Hope a real Phoenix or something else? Or she's not sure if she (Jean) is becoming (a typical) Phoenix again or something else (still with the Phoenix)?
    I think jean isn’t sure what’s happening because she was surprised to see another her next to apocalypse

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Keno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebrae View Post
    This mini is a very good example of, "it could have been an email". A lot of filler for not a lot of substance. A one shot or issues in an ongoing would have served it better.
    Its is a fine book as a individual mini series(at least judging by the only issue i have read). I guess its main fault is them try to sell this as the stepping stone of FoX but its part of showbiz

  7. #7
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixStudies View Post
    Ok, so when Jean says this...

    "No longer am I the woman you knew? I am fire and life incarnate? Now and forever--I am Phoenix? Who knows? Maybe. That...or something else. At least we did no harm."

    Is she talking about Hope or herself? She doesn't know if this (allowing Hope to mimic her power) will make Hope a real Phoenix or something else? Or she's not sure if she (Jean) is becoming (a typical) Phoenix again or something else (still with the Phoenix)?
    I believe she's talking about herself. She is still questioning herself. Both are underscored in the end by Phoenix’s retort—”So sure of yourself. So arrogant.”—which hints at Jean still not having learned her lesson, considering the fact that, again, she’s bestowing her powers on others. Both are also underscored by Jean’s final comment, in which she distinguishes herself and Phoenix from the other mutants: “You know this isn't over. Not for them. Not for us. But what comes next--be it life or death--we face it together."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebrae View Post
    This mini is a very good example of, "it could have been an email". A lot of filler for not a lot of substance. A one shot or issues in an ongoing would have served it better.
    Nowadays, most comics can be reduced to a text. That said, this series doesn't rest on continuous plot points; rather, it focuses on character and relationship development, which was vital in order for the last issue to have an impact.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member Braxxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keno View Post
    Its is a fine book as a individual mini series(at least judging by the only issue i have read). I guess its main fault is them try to sell this as the stepping stone of FoX but its part of showbiz
    Like someone already said. It’s a nice book to fill a gap between Jean’s death and her return but promoting it as a part FoX and key to save mutants was too much. The real story will be in immortal xmen and xmen forever while Louise could wrote 3 what if issues and reintroduce phoenix to xmen again. The story could be even a one shot or part of immortal xmen as a side story

  9. #9
    Incredible Member PhoenixStudies's Avatar
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    Jean accepting the Phoenix again is a big deal, after she disavowed it in Phoenix Resurrection. This mini was about getting Jean to a place where she would embrace the power again.

    And of course she will use it to try and save mutants. So it will tie into fall and rise of X and X-Men Forever (and of course the end of Immortal). We already know something powerful will wound her (the Phoenix will be bleeding out and time and space will be on fire).

    I do agree that the first issue and last issue are more impactful (this seems true of most mini series and maybe stories altogether since the beginning suppose to pique our interest and the end is typically the pay-off).

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member SugarMan's Avatar
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    I don’t think Jean “gave” the Phoenix to Hope. As Jean says, Hope’s ability is to mimic the abilities of those NEAR her. So she awakened the abilities within herself, so that Hope would have access. That’s why Hope isn’t manifesting a Phoenix raptor. She’s just mimicking Jean’s ability.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member davetvs's Avatar
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    As a Jean Stan I'm enjoying this mini just for the sake of its existence, so let's start there. I do think it's an example of the new BANG-FILLER-BANG style of storytelling which does make it feel unnecessarily drawn out; stan goggles off I can easily see why people would've tuned out during the Non-What-If-What-If issues we started with; this issue was the actual meat of the story. I don't think she was "giving" the Phoenix to Hope either, it read to me like she turned the Phoenix powers back on so Hope could copy them. I'm not sure how that renegotiates Hope's intrinsic connection to the Phoenix but maybe that'll be addressed in Immortal.

    I'm glad they seem to be overwriting Jean's dynamic with the Phoenix as of Phoenix Resurrection, because I hated that. We've had enough stories that establish Jean and the Phoenix are one, and that via the Phoenix she is immortal and has a higher cosmic purpose that those story beats aren't negotiable. Rosenberg's Jean "rejecting" the Phoenix just felt like a hollow attempt to justify playing pass the Phoenix like they've been doing for the last few years.

    My personal preference would be for Jean to accept her ultimate destiny as The White Phoenix of the Crown but to leave the Phoenix itself to its own devices, only channeling its power when absolutely necessary or under times of extreme, life-threatening duress.

  12. #12
    All-New Member Tũn's Avatar
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    “How could I? I’m as dead now as you are. Like you, I exist only here—a nexus between all Phoenix hosts and our eternal flame. I’m bits and pieces. Inactive. The White Hot Room is the heart of the Phoenix, and it is broken
    Not Phoenix mean both WHR and itself were dying because of Jean’s death?

  13. #13
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I'm confused about where this leaves Jean. And Hope. So... Hope has the power of the Phoenix now and Jean is still in the WHR?
    “Not as good as I once was… but I’m as good, once, as I ever was.”

  14. #14
    The Great Bull Del torro's Avatar
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    This whole series was disappointing

  15. #15
    Incredible Member PhoenixStudies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I'm confused about where this leaves Jean. And Hope. So... Hope has the power of the Phoenix now and Jean is still in the WHR?
    We won't know for sure until next week's Immortal, but in this issue Jean says Hope's base power is to mimic so Jean and the Phoenix put some phoenix flame into Jean who is in the desert with Hope and Exodus. They do this so that Hope can mimic Jean and fight the representation of Apocalypse. The Phoenix asks Jean if it worked and Jeans like dunno and they walk off into the white hot ether.

    Its kinda trippy in the way that the best Jean/Phoenix stories are, imho.

    Jean is in two places and two forms simultaneously. We see Jean with the phoenix on her arm touch Jean (the part of her that is in the dessert and in chains) with flame, so that Hope can use the power. Hope doesn't seem to manifest the whole phoenix, just fire wings and a fire sword. The Phoenix in full bird form remains with Jean.

    They are all still in the White Hot Room.

    Will Jean integrate herself and wake up from her stupor? Will she resurrect?

    I bet Hope will defeat Apocalypse but Jean will have to free them from the White Hot Room.

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