Geoff Johns question

[EmeraldGladiator]

You either believe Johns' delays caused DC to ignore Doomsday Clock, or Doomsday Clock was ignored by DC's brass, causing Johns to rewrite it.

Given Johns' long history of delayed comic books, I believe it was the former.

I believe Johns had a story he wanted to tell that would redirect all of DC comics, Didio et al didn't want Geoff to reclaim golden boy status because he would be less easier to control than say a Scott Snyder who would just be the latest top writer as opposed to the Return of a King, with a second reign on the Iron Throne. I believe Doomsday has finished strips and artwork that told a completely different story that had to be rewritten and redrawn mid series because of politics. Just like Bendis Legion was delayed because art had to be redone for the Bennetoning of the cast. I am sure Johns would be po'd if DC begged him to use his "Rebirth" move on all of DC just to pull the plug midstream. Johns has been late but never as late as DC and JSA and strange things were afoot at DC comics coinciding with those badly delayed books.

[kingaliencracker]

I believe Johns had a story he wanted to tell that would redirect all of DC comics, Didio et al didn't want Geoff to reclaim golden boy status because he would be less easier to control than say a Scott Snyder who would just be the latest top writer as opposed to the Return of a King, with a second reign on the Iron Throne. I believe Doomsday has finished strips and artwork that told a completely different story that had to be rewritten and redrawn mid series because of politics. Just like Bendis Legion was delayed because art had to be redone for the Bennetoning of the cast. I am sure Johns would be po'd if DC begged him to use his "Rebirth" move on all of DC just to pull the plug midstream. Johns has been late but never as late as DC and JSA and strange things were afoot at DC comics coinciding with those badly delayed books.

Again, Johns has a LONG history of delays, which has only gotten worse in recent years. If you believe there was some conspiracy against him, fine. But I'll remind you that at one point, he had a higher position at DC as an executive for WB than Didio or Lee.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Again, Johns has a LONG history of delays, which has only gotten worse in recent years. If you believe there was some conspiracy against him, fine. But I'll remind you that at one point, he had a higher position at DC as an executive for WB than Didio or Lee.

Oh I know which is why they probably didn't relish him regaining that level of power. There are delays but Doomsday was the worst by far until now. If not for the Image Comics announcement and the seeming change in direction on DClock, I would agree.

[exile001]

Oh I know which is why they probably didn't relish him regaining that level of power.

At worst he could have succeeded Didio, but he wasn't getting DC(E)U level power again.

[Felipe Silveira]

His last two major works at DC were trying, and failing, to emulate Alan Moore(Doomsday Clock isn't bad but it didn't need 12 issues, and what he used to fill those 12 issues isn't good, Three Jokers is just a disaster ).
At first Johns was everything Didio wanted, bronze age with more blood and guts. But as time passed, more Johns name and status grew, the quality of his stories declined.

[EmeraldGladiator]

No idea of the behind the scenes politics but they seem to be involved but book wise aren't pitches and outlines turned in when a project is greenlit? I mean like the issue with Fables, the writer said he finished his part more than a year ago so the delays are more political. Now on some books it can be a slow artist, I recall a few Green Lantern delays because the high quality artist that Johns wanted weren't able to meet deadlines. The Doomsday Clock and the JSA delays don't seem to be artist driven if so it would have been leaked that it was art delays to save his reputation, though he isn't one to throw his collaborators under the bus, but I must also say it was leaked that artistic delays were behind some of the late Johns books in the past. I just find it hard to separate the Ghost Machine Image announcement from the lateness of JSA and Stargirl, just like I find it hard to separate the delays in Fables from DC's fallout with it's creator.

[Thor-Ul]

I believe Johns had a story he wanted to tell that would redirect all of DC comics, Didio et al didn't want Geoff to reclaim golden boy status because he would be less easier to control than say a Scott Snyder who would just be the latest top writer as opposed to the Return of a King, with a second reign on the Iron Throne.

And in the end everything went wrong for DiDio, as Snyder himself was the one who make the bosses showed DiDio the backdoor.

I believe Doomsday has finished strips and artwork that told a completely different story that had to be rewritten and redrawn mid series because of politics. Just like Bendis Legion was delayed because art had to be redone for the Bennetoning of the cast.

Oh, for sure than there was another story. The whole concept of DdC is betrayed by the appearance of the Bennetoning Legion

I am sure Johns would be po'd if DC begged him to use his "Rebirth" move on all of DC just to pull the plug midstream. Johns has been late but never as late as DC and JSA and strange things were afoot at DC comics coinciding with those badly delayed books.

Most probably. The guy has been the one who most worked to keep the JSA and the Legion from being relegated to limbo. I suppose than being his own boss offers better rewards and taking care of himself is something he has the right to do. DC loss I guess.

Also, I must confess than I am a little confused about the whole rejection on Johns. The guy is in a creative low right know, but he has started his own imprint (good luck on that) but it seems like there is an antagonism against him than came from the (Zack)Snyderverse lovers mostly. I mean I don't remember him so highly crtized before that movie.

[Will Evans]

And in the end everything went wrong for DiDio, as Snyder himself was the one who make the bosses showed DiDio the backdoor.



Oh, for sure than there was another story. The whole concept of DdC is betrayed by the appearance of the Bennetoning Legion



Most probably. The guy has been the one who most worked to keep the JSA and the Legion from being relegated to limbo. I suppose than being his own boss offers better rewards and taking care of himself is something he has the right to do. DC loss I guess.

Also, I must confess than I am a little confused about the whole rejection on Johns. The guy is in a creative low right know, but he has started his own imprint (good luck on that) but it seems like there is an antagonism against him than came from the (Zack)Snyderverse lovers mostly. I mean I don't remember him so highly crtized before that movie.

I’ve read his work and first became a fan of his since he started at DC with the Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E. #0 issue and the Star Spangled Comics one shot from 1999.

The criticism of his comics work these days is his so called lack of originality making new characters (see the missing 13 retcon Golden Age characters). And now people are looking back at his older works and seeing those patterns like how he just made repetitive Lantern Corps.

This is only about his comics criticisms. Discussing his movie work and the whole controversy with Ray Fisher, is a whole another can of worms.

[CaptCleghorn]

The criticism of his comics work these days is his so called lack of originally making new characters (see the missing 13 retcon Golden Age characters). And now people are looking back at his older works and seeing those patterns like how he just made repetitive Lantern Corps.

That's pretty much it for the overall criticism of Johns. Repetitive tropes along with his late books.

[MajorHoy]

That's pretty much it for the overall criticism of Johns. Repetitive tropes along with his late books.

And we haven't even mentioned Barry Allen's retconned dead mommy yet . . .

[Will Evans]

And we haven't even mentioned Barry Allen's retconned dead mommy yet . . .

Eh. That was 15 years ago, so I wouldn’t call that recent.

[MajorHoy]

Eh. That was 15 years ago, so I wouldn’t call that recent.

And how long ago were the "repetitive Lantern Corps"?

. . . The criticism of his comics work these days is his so called lack of originally making new characters (see the missing 13 retcon Golden Age characters). And now people are looking back at his older works and seeing those patterns like how he just made repetitive Lantern Corps. . .

[CaptCleghorn]

And how long ago were the "repetitive Lantern Corps"?

The Golden Age Red Lantern was first mentioned in Flashpoint Beyond.

[Sutekh]

And how long ago were the "repetitive Lantern Corps"?

He's following an old trend there. Remember after Swamp Thing became an elemental avatar of 'the Green' and every darn character started getting saddled with elemental ties? Red Tornado, air elemental. Aquaman, water elemental. Firestorm, fire elemental. Just, so, so repetitive, and none of them a tenth as good as what was done with Swamp Thing, IMO. (And even today, endless attempts at shoehorning 'the Red' into Changeling/Beast Boy and Vixen's backstories, when both of them predate 'the Red' and don't need it. Not every animal themed hero needs to be connected to the Red! Just as not every fast character needs to be tied to the Speed Force.)

I've gone off on derivative tangents myself, and noodled up Legion fanfic about alternate users of weapons like the Atomic Axe (the Solar Spear!) or alternate users of items like the Emerald Eye of Ekron (the Topaz Tyrant, wielding the Topaz Tears of Tybalt! The Sapphire Suzerain! The Ruby Regent!). It's super-easy, and kind of a golden age-y way to pump out characters, while maintaining the illusion of being tied to pre-existing lore (even if it's being made up right at that moment), so it sort of rides on the popularity of what's already familiar to the readers. But it's not exactly high art. The first time, it's kinda genius (Swamp Thing and the Green), but when it becomes the latest go-to (B'wana Beast the latest to tap the Red?), not so much.

[MajorHoy]

The Golden Age Red Lantern was first mentioned in Flashpoint Beyond.

No, not Golden Age Red Lantern.
I was assuming "repetitive Lantern Corps" referred to the Care Bear Lanterns (including Blue and Indigo) from the pre-Flashpoint days.