Geoff Johns question

[Hol]

Agree. I don't care for profanity in comics either. But I grew up in a different time. Most young people use profanity the same way they constantly use the words 'like" "basically" and "literally".

My parents never cursed so I never picked up the habit.

I was surprised by it in the Super Sons animated movie. Movie was just about perfect except for that. Was also surprised because Jeremy Adams wrote it as based on his other writing it didn't seem like a decision he would make.

[CaptCleghorn]

I really like Doomsday Clock. I think Geoff Johns and Gary Frank really did a good job. That being said, the one thing I did not like (and do not like in general with DC) is all the cursing in the book. Especially when coming from the DC part of the story...I would get it more with the Watchmen characters. Is it just me or does it bother anyone else when DC heroes or characters curse in comics and other media?

And full disclosure I have nothing against cursing in general. I drop F bombs quite often. I just don't think it fits with DC characters. I feel the same about scenes that are too sexual.

My take on DClock is that it is unfairly criticized. Simply due to the fact that a lot of what people didn't like about it had reasons we don't know, but can only guess at. The art was very good but the shifting mid-range about the story and the lateness were annoying.

As for DC characters swearing, I think Bruce, Clark, and Diana would not swear. Well, maybe Bruce undercover. Guy Gardner, Ollie Queen? Sure. What gets me is the use of Grawlix, particularly Tom King's excessive use of them. Somehow, the effects of reading a character actually swearing as opposed to rattling off keyboard symbols make a big difference in how I read a story.

[marvelprince]

I love about 75% of Johns work. Stars and Stripe, JSA, his first Flash run, Hawkman, Teen Titans and most of his GL.

But man some of his stuff is repetitive and terrible. I have always said Flash Rebirth is literally a copy of his Green Lantern Rebirth. Even down to the pages where major parts happen. AND its a bad story on top of that. Then how many times did he have character mantle swapping in his later GL? Barry was Parallax and the Black Flash, so was Kyle...then how many different lanterns was Batman? Hal? Barry? It seemed at one point he was more interested in having his artists create action figures.

That all being said he is still one of my all time favorite writers. Nobody is perfect.

Don't forget his Aquaman run. Its def up there. Eventually all really popular creators will get hate. Its the cycle of fame. Johns will always be one of my favorites though. His wins and ideas and concepts are way more hit than miss. And i'll go a step further, I really think if Geoff Johns was a driving voice behind the scenes during the launch of the DCEU those movies would've been even better. He could've been DC's Kevin Feige YEARS ago.

[All Star Superman]

I understand that the announcement of Johns' foray into creator owned independent comics heralds the end of his DC comics run but I find it curious that Johns was helming a linewide reboot, Doomsday Clock, when some sort of coup de etat happened and the reins of DC were handed over to the Metal crew which led to massive delays in Doomsday Clock. Then Johns seemingly secured certain corners of the DC universe to run, JSA, Stargirl and LSH this project experiences massive delays and it turns out that once again plans had changed and now Johns was on the way out. Johns is one of my all time favorite DC writers but obviously he made some powerful enemies or wasn't the best head honcho back when he was the golden child at DC. Things like this have happened before I think about Jim Shooter and Paul Levitz rumors back in the day. I am personally disappointed because it appeared Johns had plans to reinvigorate two of my favorite DC franchises the JSA and the LSH that haven't had the best care recently. Is this a matter of someone more liked by the PTB had alternate plans for the properties or was this just the end of a relationship that reached the irreconcilable differences phase? There was a time when he could do no wrong where I was concerned he breathed new life into two of my favorite franchises, GL and JSA and even brought back my favorite version of the Legion with the Retroboot. To be honest it has been a while since he put out a banger, I had high hopes for Doomsday Clock but alas but I will never forget the joy of the Sinestro Corps War the last time of pure comic bliss for me. I know we might not know the truth of it because Johns might be to professional to spill the tea but I have been surprised at the level of intel people on this site can get from "inside sources" from time to time.

As I understand it from insiders who have posted here and elsewhere, the failure of DC You led to Johns getting the chance to do "Rebirth." For some reason, DiDio and Lee, who had been working on other projects, returned to the publishing division in full, derailed Doomsday Clock, brought Bendis in and gave Snyder the task of "fixing" continuity while ultimately undoing Rebirth.

Make no mistake of this: the Doomsday Clock delays were not due to Johns or Frank, despite comic shill sites (and hacks like Rich Johnston) pushing this narrative for years. This was personal between DiDio and Johns. I've always thought this panel was a direct shot at DiDio from Johns. The alliteration seals it for me:

darkdirections.jpg

[Refrax5]

Agree. I don't care for profanity in comics either. But I grew up in a different time. Most young people use profanity the same way they constantly use the words 'like" "basically" and "literally".

My parents never cursed so I never picked up the habit.

I think profanity is different than using the wrong word. Just saying that as a person who frequently swears, but hates the misuse of "literally."

I feel like characters swearing depends on the character and what type of book it is.

Honestly, I'm not fond of overuse of modern slang and humor in a lot of comics these days. To some degree, it just feels like it's trying too hard to be hip and takes away from the more timeless quality of the characters. Even when I was a kid, I rolled my eyes at that kind of thing.

[Thor-Ul]

As I understand it from insiders who have posted here and elsewhere, the failure of DC You led to Johns getting the chance to do "Rebirth." For some reason, DiDio and Lee, who had been working on other projects, returned to the publishing division in full, derailed Doomsday Clock, brought Bendis in and gave Snyder the task of "fixing" continuity while ultimately undoing Rebirth.

Make no mistake of this: the Doomsday Clock delays were not due to Johns or Frank, despite comic shill sites (and hacks like Rich Johnston) pushing this narrative for years. This was personal between DiDio and Johns. I've always thought this panel was a direct shot at DiDio from Johns. The alliteration seals it for me:

darkdirections.jpg

"Dark Directions".... Good observation.

[king of hybrids]

You mean the "Billy Bratson" take?

I think it’s pretty unfairly criticised. At the time Damian was still popular despite being a sociopathic and murderous brat and the general mood across the board

It was also shown pretty quickly (as in, can’t have post dated the criticism) both a negative within the comic itself and front developed to deal with the fact that the US child welfare system isn’t exactly known for being gumdrops and ice cream

I think whatever happened in the aftermath of the JL film (I’m inclined to the most condemning end, but the main accuser has done himself no favours on consistency) seems to have pretty much destroyed Johns’ passion for DC comics. He had difficulty with deadlines before then, but after he got canned the doomsday clock delays became so much worse.

His return last year seems to have been based on the idea that Black Adam and Flash would vindicate the stories (which he wrote and then optioned as CCO) would vindicate him. And they flopped, hard.

[Morgoth]

I believe he still has his passion. But he probably was very reluctant to accept the role of just another writer, without being in position of an architect of the entire franchise. He clearly wants his work to have an impact on DC, just like in the past, he tried it with Three Jokers (which DC openly refused to acknowledge as a canon story), Flashpoint Beyond, JSA, etc. But he's not the one, who sets up a direction, and he's probably too ambitious to play along, especially if he's not really fond of the current direction.

[Thor-Ul]

We should give thanks to... "DArk DIrections" for that. Johns still had his share of ideas for DC but after all he choose to go in his own.
I mean, look at his imprint: it is pretty evident than a lot of those ideas were originally DC proposals.

[Dougbauer]

CcxpScreenshot_20231201-151149.jpg

[blunt_eastwood]

As I understand it from insiders who have posted here and elsewhere, the failure of DC You led to Johns getting the chance to do "Rebirth." For some reason, DiDio and Lee, who had been working on other projects, returned to the publishing division in full, derailed Doomsday Clock, brought Bendis in and gave Snyder the task of "fixing" continuity while ultimately undoing Rebirth.

Make no mistake of this: the Doomsday Clock delays were not due to Johns or Frank, despite comic shill sites (and hacks like Rich Johnston) pushing this narrative for years. This was personal between DiDio and Johns. I've always thought this panel was a direct shot at DiDio from Johns. The alliteration seals it for me:

darkdirections.jpg

That's crazy. Also, I never understood why he referenced Extant instead of Hal or Parallax. He was the main antagonist of the story, not Extant. And he even invented Parallax, so it's not like he isn't aware of the character.

[blunt_eastwood]

No one is going to tell you what to like or dislike, so if you really enjoyed DDC, then you enjoyed it.

But considering it was more or less a sequel to Watchmen, crashed in terms of execution, and has essentially been ignored by DC since its conclusion, I would say its criticism is just. I'd also argue that it's hard to call a story underrated that had as much hype as it had.

Unfairly criticized probably articulates what I meant better than underrated. The delivery certainly didn't match the potential and hype that it had, but a lot of that is apparently due to outside factors.

I thought the actually story itself was a very entertaining and satisfying ending to The New 52.

I also thought the idea of Superman and Dr. Manhattan acting as symbols of hope and cynicism was logical and a clever way of restoring hope to the DCU, while also criticizing the impact that Watchmen had on the industry.

And I liked the explanation of moving Alan's lantern as the cause of the New 52 much more than Pandora randomly showing up and merging a bunch of universes as well.

[EmeraldGladiator]

As I understand it from insiders who have posted here and elsewhere, the failure of DC You led to Johns getting the chance to do "Rebirth." For some reason, DiDio and Lee, who had been working on other projects, returned to the publishing division in full, derailed Doomsday Clock, brought Bendis in and gave Snyder the task of "fixing" continuity while ultimately undoing Rebirth.

Make no mistake of this: the Doomsday Clock delays were not due to Johns or Frank, despite comic shill sites (and hacks like Rich Johnston) pushing this narrative for years. This was personal between DiDio and Johns. I've always thought this panel was a direct shot at DiDio from Johns. The alliteration seals it for me:

darkdirections.jpg

Thanks this post comes the closest to answering the question I posed when opening this thread. Some maintained that Johns was just slow but I knew there was more to it than that. It also appears that he has been planning a rebellion of his own by convincing the A-list artists most associated with his most successful runs to join him at Ghost Machine, this feels like a big hit on DC's talent pool not quite as big as the Image boys fleeing Marvel initially but big all the same and the Ghost Machine crew was smart enough to bring some prolific writers along with them which the Image guys did not. I am excited to give the Ghost Machine a chance but I bemoan the fact that so much talent is leaving DC when their are properties that could use A-list talent to bring them back or reinvigorate them.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Unfairly criticized probably articulates what I meant better than underrated. The delivery certainly didn't match the potential and hype that it had, but a lot of that is apparently due to outside factors.

I thought the actually story itself was a very entertaining and satisfying ending to The New 52.

I also thought the idea of Superman and Dr. Manhattan acting as symbols of hope and cynicism was logical and a clever way of restoring hope to the DCU, while also criticizing the impact that Watchmen had on the industry.

And I liked the explanation of moving Alan's lantern as the cause of the New 52 much more than Pandora randomly showing up and merging a bunch of universes as well.

For me who appreciates Watchmen but never saw it as the end all be all of alternative universe tales, for me it, the Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come weren't as compelling to me as Squadron Supreme which blew my mind but I am of a certain age and there is only so many times your mind can be blown up. There is a cynicism to Watchmen and a Darkness to Dark Knight returns that doesn't really fit into the ethos of DC. Days of Future Past bleak future fits in the "realistic" ethos of Marvel but DC always had innocence to it ala the Legion. Sort of like I don't think the Authority can work in the main DC universe and why Wildcats, an X-men analogy, doesn't really fit as well in the main DC universe. I guess while I groaned at Doomsday Clock being so Watchmen centric because like I said I never felt the feel of it fit in the main DC, looking back at it, Johns felt the same way and was trying to explain that.

[Stanlos]

We should give thanks to... "DArk DIrections" for that. Johns still had his share of ideas for DC but after all he choose to go in his own.
I mean, look at his imprint: it is pretty evident than a lot of those ideas were originally DC proposals.

?????????
My brain is still on holiday. How are his indie titles DC pitch re-gifts?