Things to keep in mind when concocting behind-the-scenes conspiracy theories...

[ZeroBG82]

Hey Mr. Slott, there is something I've been curious about and was wondering if you could talk about if you find a minute.

Specifically, the new look for the Ben Reilly version of the Jackal in Clone Conspiracy. The red suit with the black/gold Anubis mask is fire.

I'm curious how something like that, a new costume in this case, comes about. Did you have an idea in your head of what he'd look like that you communicated to the artist? Does an artist pitch an idea for a radically different look? Does it come from editorial? How much leeway do you have when designing a new look for a character, even one that may only show up in one story? I've always kind of assumed that the Jackal look was a nod to Ben's identity, kind of a Scarlet Spider visual pun, but then I wonder if that's something that was actually talked about or just a happy accident?

And, as a follow-up: How often has an artist done something a little bit unexpected with a page or design that then goes on to inform what you do with the story at a later time? Like, something so good you didn't know you needed it in your story until you saw it and it just resonated in some way you didn't see coming?

[Dan Slott]

Hey Mr. Slott, there is something I've been curious about and was wondering if you could talk about if you find a minute.

Specifically, the new look for the Ben Reilly version of the Jackal in Clone Conspiracy. The red suit with the black/gold Anubis mask is fire.

Everyone drew the hell out of it. And not keeping it as the Jackal visual was an eventual regret on my part.

I'm curious how something like that, a new costume in this case, comes about. Did you have an idea in your head of what he'd look like that you communicated to the artist?

Usually I leave costume design almost entirely with the artist, because their design sense is way better than mine. I'll just say who the character is, what they're about, what their power set is, or what I need their costume to do in the story. For example: With the Red Goblin I mentioned what their deal was, and that I'd like it if their version of pumpkin bombs were like Carnage heads... that could also cackle, scream, and talk when Red Goblin threw them. And that the Red Goblin glider should have a Carnage like mouth and could bite down on things. Other than that, I was good with whatever the artists came up with. And, BOY, did Ed McGuinness kill on those designs!

With that version of the Jackal though, that was a rare outlier where I knew specifically what I wanted. I knew we were going to start out with a mysterious man in a red suit and tie-- where we'd never get a good look at their face-- who was bringing characters' loved ones back from the dead. The misdirect would be the devil, a demon, and/or Mephisto. But the eventual payoff would be a man in "scarlet" who was using cloning technology. And then we'd add a new Jackal/Anubis mask.

Does an artist pitch an idea for a radically different look? Does it come from editorial? How much leeway do you have when designing a new look for a character, even one that may only show up in one story?

In my experience, I've usually pitched for doing a refresh of a design (Hobgoblin, Scorpion, Vulture). If editorial is good with doing that, then the artist takes some swings at it-- usually developing a couple of different looks. Then editorial gives their approval. If it's a MAJOR character-- like Spider-Man getting a new costume for a couple years, or the debut of a new character like Spider-Boy-- then the Editor-In-Chief and Publisher and other Powers That Be will probably chime in.

Also (and this is my personal take/preference) if a character has just gotten a recent refresh, it's best to not do another refresh right away-- and the same goes for snapping back to their original visual right away. You need to give the refresh a chance. I wasn't overly fond of the version of Electro where his face was electrically scarred/burned. But I didn't want to be the person who undid what another creative team had done right away. There's always the chance that you (meaning "me") is wrong about what might be a cool new visual.

And, as a follow-up: How often has an artist done something a little bit unexpected with a page or design that then goes on to inform what you do with the story at a later time? Like, something so good you didn't know you needed it in your story until you saw it and it just resonated in some way you didn't see coming?

All the time. Comics are a group effort and everyone needs to be able to express themselves and contribute to the finished product. And sometimes the gifts your fellow collaborators give you can pay off later in all the best ways.

[t-spider]

Everyone drew the hell out of it. And not keeping it as the Jackal visual was an eventual regret on my part.

I really do wish they would've kept the new Jackal look, and used it for Warren. Such a good upgrade...

[Kevinroc]

I really do wish they would've kept the new Jackal look, and used it for Warren. Such a good upgrade...

Characters changing their look and that sticking is easier said than done.

[Mercwmouth12]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/the-...shops-of-2023/

[Mercwmouth12]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/the-...shops-of-2023/

That's a lot of Batman there and nice to see Star Wars make the list

[Dan Slott]

Quick things to keep in mind:

1. That's a list based on 144 shops, not the entire market.

2. If you read the statements I've made on this thread, they've always been based on Marvel's best selling titles, and I've always been clear on that. The core Batman book regularly outsells the core Spider-Man book. It's been that way for ages. That's why for the past couple of decades the comic index (the comic book version of the gold standard) used BATMAN's sales as the book all others were measured against, and you could figure out the specific sales of any indexed book by converting the index number off of BATMAN's index number.

3. The rankings I've mentioned (how Zeb's run dominated Marvel's Top 25 best selling issues this year, how SPIDER-MAN #1 was Marvel's #1 issue based on units in 2022, and how SPIDER-BOY #1 was Marvel's #1 issue based on units and dollars in 2023) are from Marvel's numbers. Ever since Marvel and DC moved away from Diamond, both companies have been keeping their sales figures close to the vest. Companies don't like to share data when they don't have to.

4. When the EIC of a company comes out and says a book is Marvel's best selling issue of the year ( https://www.scifinow.co.uk/exclusive...uing-a-legacy/ ), it would be silly of them to say that if it wasn't true.

[Moxxi517]

Quick things to keep in mind:

1. That's a list based on 144 shops, not the entire market.

2. If you read the statements I've made on this thread, they've always been based on Marvel's best selling titles, and I've always been clear on that. The core Batman book regularly outsells the core Spider-Man book. It's been that way for ages. That's why for the past couple of decades the comic index (the comic book version of the gold standard) used BATMAN's sales as the book all others were measured against, and you could figure out the specific sales of any indexed book by converting the index number off of BATMAN's index number.

3. The rankings I've mentioned (how Zeb's run dominated Marvel's Top 25 best selling issues this year, how SPIDER-MAN #1 was Marvel's #1 issue based on units in 2022, and how SPIDER-BOY #1 was Marvel's #1 issue based on units and dollars in 2023) are from Marvel's numbers. Ever since Marvel and DC moved away from Diamond, both companies have been keeping their sales figures close to the vest. Companies don't like to share data when they don't have to.

4. When the EIC of a company comes out and says a book is Marvel's best selling issue of the year ( https://www.scifinow.co.uk/exclusive...uing-a-legacy/ ), it would be silly of them to say that if it wasn't true.

I’m not sure if you would be aware of this. But what do Marvel’s internal numbers look like? Like do they literally have a tally of the point of sale orders to customers for each issue they sell? The bleedingcool top 10 and the icv2 numbers are both sourced using ComicsHub. But the internal numbers you reference seem to be more comprehensive than that.

The other thing to keep in mind is that this is just a top 10. And doesn’t really contradict any statements made by you or CB in the past. I mean you’ve referenced icv2 frequently cause they always show your books doing pretty well. (I just mention this to say that the bleedingcool numbers are the same numbers as the ones that frequently show spider-boy and whatnot selling well. So I don’t think this top list should be seen as contradicting that) Batman is just built different I guess.

[Dan Slott]

Okay. Let's play the long game.

Even if you doubt me, if what C.B. said about SPIDER-BOY is true, then that sounds like a very good reason why a comic book company would have faith in a title and give it a long, healthy commitment (or, say, re-up someone's contract ).

So let's put a pin in this and see if I'm still working on a SPIDER-BOY title a year from now. How about that?

Just leaving this here on December 28th, 2023. See you next year.

[Dan Slott]

I’m not sure if you would be aware of this. But what do Marvel’s internal numbers look like? Like do they literally have a tally of the point of sale orders to customers for each issue they sell? The bleedingcool top 10 and the icv2 numbers are both sourced using ComicsHub. But the internal numbers you reference seem to be more comprehensive than that.

There have been times where I've seen the Bleeding Cool Top 10 and it does not line up with things I've seen at Marvel Summits. Where it will be close, but off in some big ways. And there were times in the past, when Comichron was still putting out lists based on Diamond DC/Marvel numbers, where the Bleeding Cool Top 10 lists (based on the finite number of retailers sending in their info to BC) where things really wouldn't shake out at the end of the month when Comichron would post. That's probably different *now* that BC is going off ComicsHub. That said, in the past, while waiting for Comichron and Diamond to post, I'd look to ICV2 numbers and rankings, and they *mostly* matched up with Comichron's numbers, with very few outliers at the end of the day. So this has made me a little more biased for them, even though you're looking at a similar sample size of retailers, they just always felt like a better (temporary) indicator to me. If someone wants to do a deep dive and compare the Pre-Marvel/DC-Diamond-Shift numbers and rankings for Bleeding Cool and ICV2 against Comichron, that could be interesting.

The other thing to keep in mind is that this is just a top 10. And doesn’t really contradict any statements made by you or CB in the past. I mean you’ve referenced icv2 frequently cause they always show your books doing pretty well. Batman is just built different I guess.

During the entire Snyder/Capullo run of BATMAN they regularly kept my team's run of ASM out of the top spot. And hats off to Scott & Greg! Nothing but respect! It'd take either a centenary issue, an anniversary issue, or the start or climax of a major Spidey story for us to wrest that #1 spot from them, and even then that'd *only* be for one month. Marvel didn't mind because we were a twice-a-month book, so ASM would be getting two issues high up in the rankings to BATMAN's one-- and Marvel cares far more about the bottom line than they do about awards or rankings. But I'd be greedy for both. It's good to have another team to egg you on though, and Scott & Gregg were always supportive and generous with their praise, and I like to think that our team was very reciprocal too.

[t-spider]

I'm honestly not sure what the issue is here? Marvel would likely know more on this... but either way, Spider-Boy seems to have gotten buzz and fans, seems like a win-win to me.

[Konnik92]

Quick things to keep in mind:

1. That's a list based on 144 shops, not the entire market. ...

So does this mean that this ICV2 data you've been using as a defense for Spider-Boy sales and how Wells's run achieved far more than you is NOT accurate? Well I'll be ...

[Dan Slott]

Pretty sure I just said...

There have been times where I've seen the Bleeding Cool Top 10 and it does not line up with things I've seen at Marvel Summits. Where it will be close, but off in some big ways. And there were times in the past, when Comichron was still putting out lists based on Diamond DC/Marvel numbers, where the Bleeding Cool Top 10 lists (based on the finite number of retailers sending in their info to BC) where things really wouldn't shake out at the end of the month when Comichron would post. That's probably different *now* that BC is going off ComicsHub. That said, in the past, while waiting for Comichron and Diamond to post, I'd look to ICV2 numbers and rankings, and they *mostly* matched up with Comichron's numbers, with very few outliers at the end of the day. So this has made me a little more biased for them, even though you're looking at a similar sample size of retailers, they just always felt like a better (temporary) indicator to me. If someone wants to do a deep dive and compare the Pre-Marvel/DC-Diamond-Shift numbers and rankings for Bleeding Cool and ICV2 against Comichron, that could be interesting.

[Rich Johnston]

Quick things to keep in mind:

1. That's a list based on 144 shops, not the entire market.

2. If you read the statements I've made on this thread, they've always been based on Marvel's best selling titles, and I've always been clear on that. The core Batman book regularly outsells the core Spider-Man book. It's been that way for ages. That's why for the past couple of decades the comic index (the comic book version of the gold standard) used BATMAN's sales as the book all others were measured against, and you could figure out the specific sales of any indexed book by converting the index number off of BATMAN's index number.

3. The rankings I've mentioned (how Zeb's run dominated Marvel's Top 25 best selling issues this year, how SPIDER-MAN #1 was Marvel's #1 issue based on units in 2022, and how SPIDER-BOY #1 was Marvel's #1 issue based on units and dollars in 2023) are from Marvel's numbers. Ever since Marvel and DC moved away from Diamond, both companies have been keeping their sales figures close to the vest. Companies don't like to share data when they don't have to.

4. When the EIC of a company comes out and says a book is Marvel's best selling issue of the year ( https://www.scifinow.co.uk/exclusive...uing-a-legacy/ ), it would be silly of them to say that if it wasn't true.

Also, the ComicHub stats I use measure sales in store to customers. CB and Marvel may look to sales to retailers. Spider-Boy had 1:100 covers will may have encouraged some stores to overorder Spider-Boy #1 to get those 1:100 covers, which they could then sell for top dollar, and subsidise the cost of those extra orders. Now maybe they didn't sell all the extra they ordered - though they probably sold some of them. Maybe they will use them for promotional reasons, give them away to certain customers to encourage them to pay full price for issue 2, maybe they will use them to promote the store on FCBD. All of that becomes part of the equation retailers make when making such orders. But it may explain the difference in numbers.

[WebLurker]

Also, the ComicHub stats I use measure sales in store to customers. CB and Marvel may look to sales to retailers. Spider-Boy had 1:100 covers will may have encouraged some stores to overorder Spider-Boy #1 to get those 1:100 covers, which they could then sell for top dollar, and subsidise the cost of those extra orders. Now maybe they didn't sell all the extra they ordered - though they probably sold some of them. Maybe they will use them for promotional reasons, give them away to certain customers to encourage them to pay full price for issue 2, maybe they will use them to promote the store on FCBD. All of that becomes part of the equation retailers make when making such orders. But it may explain the difference in numbers.

So, if there's an approx. difference between company to store sales and store to customer sales, what would be the takeaway?