MARVEL's success was not solely on "universe" but movie quality, they forgot it

[Colossus1980]

Of course, it made such money because it's SW, we all know how powerful this brand is.

Just like MCU didn't get bad box office right way after they lost their idea, also TLJ and EP9 got a quick drop due to its quality.

If it was a huge success, we would have more and more movies rather than a 5 years hold. Especially right now all the hollywood companies are digging big old franchises. Even the TV series got little to do with the ST era.

Search on the internet to see if the new toys are selling. If the ones from the new TV shows and movies are selling, it's popular. If the merch isn't moving that's the proof.

[Slowpokeking]

Both Mando and Ahsoka directly set up the ST, though so you're wrong on that last part.

And my point is it was still successful because of how much it made. But I'm not going to keep going back and forth about it.

They are post RotJ, got little to do with the ST era.

Also EP8 and EP9 both started strong but losing legs quickly. EP9 even made Disney less money than RO.

https://deadline.com/2020/04/star-wa...lm-1202915179/

It's certainly not what they have expected from the ending of the trilogy. It has to do with its own quality and TLJ.

TLJ's opening was on par with TFA but dropped quickly.

[Colossus1980]

Sigh. We are never really going to know if Captain Marvel is popular. The first movie came at the height of MCU mania and between Infinity War and Endgame. The second movie came at a MCU low point and she had to share the spotlight. Marvel Comics believes in the character and makes sure she will always have a book but never hires A list talent for her book.

https://****************/brie-larson...stumes-of-2023 If this is accurate then I'm going to say CM is nowhere near as popular as the MCU wants her to be.

[Slowpokeking]

Search on the internet to see if the new toys are selling. If the ones from the new TV shows and movies are selling, it's popular. If the merch isn't moving that's the proof.

On most of the places, the OT characters are still on top. Some of the TV series were ok, but it has nothing to do with ST.

[Largo161]

It was Iron Man's success which started MCU. And other than a post credit scene, there was no infinity gem plot.

Avengers 1 also was very fun, you don't need to watch other movies to enjoy it.

Then in phase 2 we got CA2 and GotG, CA2 probably is the best MCU solo movie. Yeah we got infinity gems plot, but they didn't affect the movie's own quality until like Avengers 2.

Only phase 3 mainly rely on a "main plot" to push on and attract ppl to watch all the MCU movies, I already started to feel boring about their formula. But IW was really good, then the infinity gem plot ended with Endgame, most of the main heroes have left.

So after Endgame, MCU needed to pick up their own, use well known heroes or. But no, they just thought their success only got to do with their "universe", so they just keep making movies about tier N characters without build them well. Expand the universe and setup for the future instead of making good movies.

“Tier N”? N?? Not C-list or D-list, but N! I am ROFL 🤣🤣🤣.

[Slowpokeking]

“Tier N”? N?? Not C-list or D-list, but N! I am ROFL ������.

As long as you get the point it doesn't matter, I'm not very familiar with those Marvel characters.

[Largo161]

As long as you get the point it doesn't matter, I'm not very familiar with those Marvel characters.

Oh, yes, no one could miss your point. You put it in such a hilarious way. I’m not laughing at you. I’m laughing with you. I plan to start using “tier N.” LOL

[HollowSage]

It was Iron Man's success which started MCU. And other than a post credit scene, there was no infinity gem plot.

Avengers 1 also was very fun, you don't need to watch other movies to enjoy it.

Then in phase 2 we got CA2 and GotG, CA2 probably is the best MCU solo movie. Yeah we got infinity gems plot, but they didn't affect the movie's own quality until like Avengers 2.

Only phase 3 mainly rely on a "main plot" to push on and attract ppl to watch all the MCU movies, I already started to feel boring about their formula. But IW was really good, then the infinity gem plot ended with Endgame, most of the main heroes have left.

So after Endgame, MCU needed to pick up their own, use well known heroes or. But no, they just thought their success only got to do with their "universe", so they just keep making movies about tier N characters without build them well. Expand the universe and setup for the future instead of making good movies.

So now we got The Marvels' failure. The character herself wasn't very popular, the plot was meh, no clear target audience and ppl are not that interested in superheroes anymore.

Most of the "universe" failed also because they focused too much on "building a universe" instead of making good movies, and they flop their first or second movie=The End.

Marvel needs to learn from their lesson. It's not too late yet.

What exactly is the “lesson” here?

Make good movies? No one tries to make bad movies.

Use A list characters? Iron Man was B/C list until the movies. GOTG were Z list until the movies.

[krazijoe]

The only thing Marvel has failed at is blowing the budget. That’s it. All the other stuff you’re talking about is noise.

[Aahz]

Yes, I'm aware of what franchise we're talking about. And you're still applying an arbitrary qualifier to measure success. It still made billions of dollars and Rey is still very popular with kids, as are the shows.

Disney also paid billions to buy the franchise and make the movies.

Star war clearly meant to be a movie franchise of the size of the MCU for Disney and that clearly didn't happened.

[HollowSage]

Disney also paid billions to buy the franchise and make the movies.

Star war clearly meant to be a movie franchise of the size of the MCU for Disney and that clearly didn't happened.

They paid 4 Billion. Does anyone think they haven’t made that back and then some?

Do they want more? Of course and they haven’t given up but their original plans were unrealistic. Imagine if they had actually put out SW movies at that pace. People would be talking about Star Wars fatigue.

[Aahz]

They paid 4 Billion. Does anyone think they haven’t made that back and then some?

Hard to say since most of what they made will come from stuff like merchandise, and I have no idea how much profit they make from that.

But I'm pretty confident that they have far less money with Star Wars than they did with Marvel.


And I'm also pretty sure that the movies and streaming shows didn't made them 4 Billion.

Than they also had this Star Wars Hotel that they had to shut down, so they likely lost also money on that thing.

And I have no Idea how their Star Wars Theme Park stuff is doing.

[Zauriel]

It was Iron Man's success which started MCU. And other than a post credit scene, there was no infinity gem plot.

Avengers 1 also was very fun, you don't need to watch other movies to enjoy it.

Then in phase 2 we got CA2 and GotG, CA2 probably is the best MCU solo movie. Yeah we got infinity gems plot, but they didn't affect the movie's own quality until like Avengers 2.

Only phase 3 mainly rely on a "main plot" to push on and attract ppl to watch all the MCU movies, I already started to feel boring about their formula. But IW was really good, then the infinity gem plot ended with Endgame, most of the main heroes have left.

So after Endgame, MCU needed to pick up their own, use well known heroes or. But no, they just thought their success only got to do with their "universe", so they just keep making movies about tier N characters without build them well. Expand the universe and setup for the future instead of making good movies.

So now we got The Marvels' failure. The character herself wasn't very popular, the plot was meh, no clear target audience and ppl are not that interested in superheroes anymore.

Most of the "universe" failed also because they focused too much on "building a universe" instead of making good movies, and they flop their first or second movie=The End.

Marvel needs to learn from their lesson. It's not too late yet.

I haven't watched the Marvels yet but don't count chickens until the eggs are hatched.

Yes, The Marvels had a terrible box office opening gross. So did Elemental. The Marvels film gets a lot of negative reviews. So did Super Mario Bros animated film.

The Marvels will be lucky to score $600 million before the thearical run is over.

[Emperorjones]

One of the problems I see is that Disney/Marvel fell into the trap of focusing more on the next movie or project instead of the one they were working on at the moment. Too much attention was put on mid/end credit scenes that would excite the audience for the next time. This worked for the Infinity Saga, for the most part, because each movie was arguably the next chapter in a book, or a puzzle piece. With the less focused multiverse saga, it's not working. And sometimes the mid/end credit scenes come off as stunts (Harry Styles anyone?) or they waste them with "humor" (which to me seems like it's insulting the audience, to have us wait all that time for some unfunny bit that doesn't give us any clues about what's next anyway).

The first MCU movies told more complete stories, with the end credits being the icing, not the cake. It feels more today like the MCU movies have a harder time standing alone as interesting, character-driven stories in their own right. It's like the character development takes a back seat to the jokes, Easter Eggs, and the supposedly exciting "what's next".

[Zauriel]

Hard to say since most of what they made will come from stuff like merchandise, and I have no idea how much profit they make from that.

But I'm pretty confident that they have far less money with Star Wars than they did with Marvel.


And I'm also pretty sure that the movies and streaming shows didn't made them 4 Billion.

Than they also had this Star Wars Hotel that they had to shut down, so they likely lost also money on that thing.

And I have no Idea how their Star Wars Theme Park stuff is doing.

They also lost money on mega-budget failures such as Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny and especially Strange World which earned very far less than its reported budget. Haunted Mansion also bombed, but Disney didn't lose much money from it.