Superman Reborn - What the heck did I just read?

[Kuwagaton]

Oh, and let's not forget that the Superman: Rebirth book, that had the remaining Superman explaining a chunk of the new status quo, is so poorly crafted that it read like the Rebirth Superman is a villain. Or it was intentional for a planned storyline that was immediately dropped.

I don't quite remember that?

[superduperman]

I'm firmly of the belief that Convergence killed New 52 Superman. Had DC not moved their offices, he might still be the official Superman.

[bat39]

The throwing out of the New 52 origin is probably the thing that angers me the most about that time. There were ways to "merge" them properly and keep the popular stuff from New 52, like the origin, but the attitude at the time was very much "New 52 sucks! Get rid of all of it!" But because Johns was in charge, it was his mediocre origin that got kept. Which bolsters my argument that one person shouldn't have that much power. The New 52 origin is probably the best comic origin he's ever had. With maybe the exception of the pre-Crisis one.

Bottom line was that they wanted to get rid of the New 52 Superman. The 'merger' was just a way to do it without alienating fans or invalidating him completely, by claiming that 'notionally' he was still part of the Rebirth Superman. But the goal all along was to bring back the Post-Crisis Superman.

I sometimes think it might have been better if they'd gone with the idea that some kind of multiversal 'shuffling' had occurred, and that the New 52 Superman was a Superman from another earth who'd been abducted and forcibly 'integrated' into the main DCU. New 52 Superman and Lois could go back to their world (where we could potentially follow them again), and the Post-Crisis versions could be 'reintegrated' and take over again, without the pretence that their New 52 versions were 'merged' into them in any way.

I'm firmly of the belief that Convergence killed New 52 Superman. Had DC not moved their offices, he might still be the official Superman.

You're right. Convergence bringing back Post-Crisis Superman and Lois (with a kid no less) set the stage for them returning as the main versions.

That said, eventually we'd have gotten back to something like the Post-Crisis Superman anyway once Rebirth came along...its just that it'd have happened gradually the way it has with other characters like Wonder Woman or Green Arrow. The classic suit with trunks would be back, Clark and Lois would probably get into a relationship, (with maybe the marriage happening 'again'), some in-universe cosmic retcon would happen to bring back the Kents etc. Actually, a lot like how the DCAMU Superman developed with the Death/Return films and beyond.

[Laser_Man]

Yeah, the execution of it all was all a mess, even though Rebirth as a concept was pretty promising. The general idea was to reverse the New 52 and bring back something akin to the 'classic' Post-Crisis DCU. The conceit was that someone (namely Doc Manhattan) messed with time to create the New 52 reality. But Wally West returns, having regained his memories of the Post-Crisis timeline due to being trapped in the Speed Force, and that was supposed to set the stage for the heroes discovering what caused the New 52, and having a showdown with Dr. Manhattan (and other Watchmen characters) to restore what was lost.

Except...that the whole plan was never executed to the fullest. Doomsday Clock was delayed massively and was shunted off to quasi-canon status. Dark Nights: Metal, and its sequels, became the focal point of DC multiversal sheningans. Continuity became a mess again, and aspects of the Post-Crisis DCU were restored piecemeal and in an inconsistent manner, to the extent that we don't really know how things stand right now.

Superman was another big piece of the puzzle that complicated things even further. Unlike the other characters, where making them like their Post-Crisis versions meant restoring their memories, or 'organically' bringing them closer to Post-Crisis status quos, in the case of Superman and Lois they literally physically brought back the previous versions of the characters, along with a kid whom they never actually had in the original reality, but did in the Convergence version of the Post-Crisis DCU (who then grew up in the New 52 timeline). And they wanted to make this version the main Superman again...while not totally negating the New 52 Superman and Lois either by dismissing them as 'fakes'. So what did they do? A convoluted plotline wherein we're told that Superman and Lois were 'split' in two at some unknown point in the past, and they're now 'merged' together again, restoring a version of Superman's Post-Crisis history to the New 52/Rebirth timeline, albeit with Jon's birth and upbringing shoehorned in. And supposedly, we were going to get answers on how and why the Supermen were 'split', but those were never really forthcoming. And in the end, the New 52 Superman and Lois were effectively erased anyway, barring a flashback scene post-Reborn where we see Post-Crisis Superman briefly wearing the New 52 uniform before Jon's birth.

The whole mess becomes messier if you consider Mr. Oz who SPOILERS...

...was revealed to be Jor-El, saved by Doc Manhattan from moments before Krypton's destruction! Except...which Jor-El was he, given that Mr. Oz existed during the New 52 continuity, at a time when the two Superman were supposedly 'split'? And how was he involved in his son being 'split'?

I mean, the stories were fun to speculate on, but in the end, it was a total mess.

No wonder kids don't read comic books anymore.

If this is the sort of convoluted, nonsensical storylines that a major publisher is selling about one of their top heroes, it explains why comic books have utterly failed to rope in new readers..

[Kuwagaton]

No wonder kids don't read comic books anymore.

If this is the sort of convoluted, nonsensical storylines that a major publisher is selling about one of their top heroes, it explains why comic books have utterly failed to rope in new readers..

I really wouldn't go so far as to imply it's anything damning to the industry, as historically convolutions and superheroes have been peas and carrots.

Many of us adults today can remember the X-Men, Siege Perilous to AoA, being a license to print money. Marvel rebooted and debooted with Onslaught. Batman's back, Liefeld's Cap, Ben Reilly, Zero Hour... I can't even say it's a quality thing when One More Day was a smash hit.

Spider verse is smashing through mediums right now.
Comics are such an expensive niche that even to ignore all that and focus on how good Superman is at this very moment , you still don't have something to compete for the 8-19 year old attention span.

[superduperman]

No wonder kids don't read comic books anymore.

If this is the sort of convoluted, nonsensical storylines that a major publisher is selling about one of their top heroes, it explains why comic books have utterly failed to rope in new readers..

This is pretty typical for most comics. The irony is, when comics companies DO make stuff for new readers, they don't pick them up. See, Earth One, New 52, Black Label, etc.

[exile001]

I don't quite remember that?

It was a one-shot to bridge the gap between the last New 52 book and Jurgens' and Tomasi's runs. Superman and Lana are discussing the death of New 52perman and classic Superman's death/rebirth.

However, Superman is in shadow a lot, and it's staged weirdly to give an almost threatening vibe (he often towers over her) and a few things he says can be read different ways. After deciding to be Superman again the last panel is an incredibly sinister smile.

I'd blame the art, but it's Doug Mahnke so there's no way it's not intentional.

[Kuwagaton]

It was a one-shot to bridge the gap between the last New 52 book and Jurgens' and Tomasi's runs. Superman and Lana are discussing the death of New 52perman and classic Superman's death/rebirth.

However, Superman is in shadow a lot, and it's staged weirdly to give an almost threatening vibe (he often towers over her) and a few things he says can be read different ways. After deciding to be Superman again the last panel is an incredibly sinister smile.

I'd blame the art, but it's Doug Mahnke so there's no way it's not intentional.

Oh, um... I... can't even begin to imagine that. Like no part of the dialogue suggested that to me and he smiles after constructing an homage to the New 52 Superman. the most I can comprehend is just not liking Mahnke's vibe that much but I personally have tried my best to buy everything he's drawn since his MoS days

[superduperman]

It was a one-shot to bridge the gap between the last New 52 book and Jurgens' and Tomasi's runs. Superman and Lana are discussing the death of New 52perman and classic Superman's death/rebirth.

However, Superman is in shadow a lot, and it's staged weirdly to give an almost threatening vibe (he often towers over her) and a few things he says can be read different ways. After deciding to be Superman again the last panel is an incredibly sinister smile.

I'd blame the art, but it's Doug Mahnke so there's no way it's not intentional.

I'm convinced the whole Reborn storyline was banged out in a week. I haven't read it since it came out but the impression I got at the time was that this was clearly rushed out to get rid of the New 52 Superman quickly.

[godisawesome]

They really should have just gone with “Married Superman is from the ‘present’, and New 52 Superman is his past, and we just needed to fix the timeline around the other DC characters, the end.”

Quick, simple, still has the same degree of vagaries about what in the past matters and what doesn’t, and could probably be covered in a few panels.

[exile001]

the most I can comprehend is just not liking Mahnke's vibe that much but I personally have tried my best to buy everything he's drawn since his MoS days

Mahnke is one of my top 5 Superman artists. I love the guy's work (especially in the Loeb era).

That smile at the end is just the opposite of warm or heartfelt to me. it's terrifying. There's just something innately sinister about the whole thing to me.

But you and superduperman are probably right (well, definitely as nothing more ever came from it), it's unintentional and they bashed the whole thing out in a rush so the quality suffered as a result.