Immortal X-Men #17 Spoiler Recap and Review

[Tank]

Immortal Xmen issues have spotlight the character narrating the story and given us insight into their mind, motivations, thoughts and feelings.
Xaviers, Emmas, Exodus, Nightcrawler, Destinys were all very good and definitive character studys. Helping you to boil down to the core parts of what makes the character tick. They shape how most modern fans view these characters.

So when we have an Immortal Xmen book with jean on the cover and supposed to be the narrator, people are expecting to have a character study or atleast narration that gives insight into jeans mind.

She doesn't even have to be an active player. She could be physically incontinent on panel, while her mind can still give narration to the readers and showcase her thoughts and feelings.

If you check, other people have noted disappointment that Jean did not do much in her own issue. That it focused too luch on xavier and others. Having the narration be a confused jean mumbling bits and pieces of old dialogue that barely strings into a vague narrative of some connection to the phoenix doesn't build or develop jeans character. It doesn't tell us much what her thoughts on the situation (FoX, MR plans, the WHR situation with mutants) and doesn't do anything to make you feel like jean is a 3 dimensional character and not just a plot device.

Yes, the story is about mother righteous using jean as an object to obtain power, but jean fans that will buy the book to read her voice, will obviously be disappointed. Having jeans coherent narration would have atleast given her a form of functionality/agency.

Imagine reading all the previous issues and getting character breakdowns for all these Xcharacters, then its your favourite characters turn and the writer just gives you, "she's babbling and incoherent again"

And notice i said again, because it's a problem that jean always has with writers. Endsong, here comes tomorrow, phoenix Resurrection, the recent jean grey solo.
We go through multiple issues of jean being not in sync, out of her mind, incoherent or not being able to function properly as a character, then a finale issue of jean as a character with minimal character work being done(also notice how its always in phoenix stories). Its why i love the teen Jean grey solo, new xmen, revolution era xmen, Xmen red and the Judgement day issue. Jean is given agency, able to talk and convey her thoughts clearly, and grow as an Interesting character.

Yes, i get it. They are waiting for the big finale for jean and phoenix to do something. They are not giving jean action now because they are waiting to use her later as a big gun. That is the story they are telling and i get it.

But that's not my main point. I am annoyed at jean being only a plot device or tool in her Spotlight issue.

The Xavier issue is my favourite Immortal Xmen issue. It didn't have charles running around,saving the day. No, it had the xmen hunting sinister and taking him down.
All Xavier did was provide narration that gave insight into who he is, his motivations, his fears, the reason he formed the xmen, his arrogance and his self hate. Heck gillen did it again with Judgement day preludes, having the characters and plot move forward with the mysterious voice of the unborn celestial watching and commenting without actively interfering.
He did it in some issues of Eternals where the Machine narrated the issues and gave insight to his feelings while the characters and plot did their own thing (a reason why the death/rebooting of the Machine into a monotonous A.I at the end of Judgement Day really hurt)

When Gillen said he did a deep dive into Jeans history and would be doing an Al Ewing style issue for Jean (Ewing being someone who is great with character work and tying threads of a characters disjointed history into a coherent tapestry), I was expecting a story or narration that would open a door into jeans mind and tell us "this is what makes jean grey tick, this what makes her who she is".
So i think its quite understandable to be disappointed that what i got was quite less than that.

I love the issue, the stuff with xavier, hope, exodus and sinister. But jeans function as only a plot device left me disappointed. I was expecting a 10/10 issue and got a 8/10. Gillen is one of my top Xmen writers and i get what he was going for with Jean, he did something similar with dark phoenix scotts mind going in and out of time in AvX and narrating his thoughts as the final battle happened. But even that still showcased scotts personality and gave insight to the way he was feeling then netter than this issue did for Jean. Plus, like i said, with the standard set by the previous issues of Immortal Xmen, I was already expecting a character study on Jean.

I agree with this so much. Which is why overall I thought Endsong, phoenix resurrection, here comes tomorrow and her recent series could have been so much better. I don’t want to read 2-3 issues of Jean being confused/disoriented just to have her come to her senses the last issue with barely any room for new insight or character development because she has spent most of own series confused or disassembled. I just want her to finally accept her destiny so we can get in to new stories where she doesn’t question her role as Phoenix again and just BE.

Also the art on her issues always seems to get downgraded. This issue has this guy’s art which is a huge drop off from Luka Werneck and Jean is even one of Lukas’ favorite characters so it was a huge disappointment. Same with say xmen 120 her new xmen focus issue had Kordey art. Etc

Hopefully we get a Jean with more agency and some definitive answers in immortal 18 and xmen forever.

[captain Qball]

Overall I enjoyed it, as I have all of Immortal. Felt heavy, I'll have to give it another read layering in some Jean/Phoenix context.

The Xavier/Sinister stuff was good. It had some the of the same feeling as most of FoX right now- explaining and tying up stories they never got to. We know everyone not Xavier is clean from Sinister. We know Sinister has no other real copies, and they informing characters about the dominion threat. But I found it a neat exploration of Sinister as he is right now, and wonder where this leaves Xavier's character.

The book did Hope dirty - not only by saying she's going to die in Jean's/Phoenix's name. That glorious red dress from Jean Grey 4 was no where to be seen.

I though Apocalypse killed Exodus at first. Interesting to see a faith feedback loop between Phoenix Hope and Exodus. Such a tease that Destiny was going to reveal what she actually knows if not for a small case of stabbing.

Curious to see Mother Righteous's end game, and why she needed all the other mutants in the White Hot Room.
I have a bad feeling that Hope, Exodus, Destiny and the thousands of unnamed mutants are going to be sacrificed for a Dominion or Phoenix powering.

[PyroFN]

Except JDW and the writers keep claiming that if we don't see known mutants in the casts of other books, its to be assumed that they're among the mutants in the desert.....which means tons of Academy X kids, Acolytes, MLF members, a lot of former members of X-Factor, X-Force and other affiliate teams, SWORD personnel, etc. And if they're going to claim that, they're opening yourself up to criticism when they continually act like this mass of 250K mutants is largely helpless or non-combatants aside from Hope & Exodus.

One thing I will NOT miss about this era is the plot contrivance and the extremes of suspension of disbelief they keep demanding in order to make their Big Picture plots work. Every era has it to some degree or another but several of the writers in this era are way too casual about it. Oh well.

The issue with that is he has the perspective of months in advance of work. We do not. So, we don't know ahead of time of who is in what book until this plot ends and all mutants return, which could very well be by the end of this entire Krakoa era. I am not saying its wrong to wish they would use other characters or demand us to keep making up excuses for them. I am more saying we still don't know enough about what's going on to say for certain that the writers are doing something. Like, for instance, we had no clue of Cloak and Dagger's whereabouts until Uncanny Spider-Man when we are told that Orchis had captured them. It's just too soon in my eyes personally.

[PyroFN]

Well. I guess this issue at some level explains why Professor Xavier has a long history of being a jerk.

There was a foreboding symmetry in this issue: Xavier being led by Sinister, and Jean being literally led on a leash by another Sinister.

With so much symmetry and rhyming, maybe Jean’s most recent death and now afterlife experience are another manipulation and attempt to corrupt the Phoenix. Her inner monologue toward the end seemed to be increasingly focused on Dark Phoenix moments.

If I had to hazard a guess: Mother Righteous is the Sinister that achieved Dominion. She knows Phoenix is most vulnerable when it (Jean) is respawning in WHR. So she is manipulating Jean / Phoenix to prevent it from resetting reality.

This bolded part is actually really smart that I did not even think of. If I had a cookie, I would give one.

[BobbysWorld]

The issue with that is he has the perspective of months in advance of work. We do not. So, we don't know ahead of time of who is in what book until this plot ends and all mutants return, which could very well be by the end of this entire Krakoa era. I am not saying its wrong to wish they would use other characters or demand us to keep making up excuses for them. I am more saying we still don't know enough about what's going on to say for certain that the writers are doing something. Like, for instance, we had no clue of Cloak and Dagger's whereabouts until Uncanny Spider-Man when we are told that Orchis had captured them. It's just too soon in my eyes personally.

To clarify, I'm not talking about the location of specific mutants, or the possibility that one individual mutant might still show up in one of the other Fall of X books here or there. I'm talking about painting the Krakoans in the WHR as being virtually devoid of any protection or combatants aside from Hope or Exodus themselves, when in terms of just sheer numbers, we know there's no WAY for the dozens if not hundreds of mutants yet to appear in any Fall of X books, and who have useful powers or combat experience, to ALL not be present or relevant to the WHR scenes because they're meant to appear elsewhere.

Its not a criticism about any specific mutant 'well why isn't this particular Academy X kid or Acolyte appearing to defend the endangered mutants in the WHR scenes'....its a criticism about 'how can you possibly expect us to believe only Hope and Exodus are capable of stepping up to protect the WHR mutants from the various dangers they've encountered there, when there are hundreds of mutants who've appeared in the X-books over the years as being capable fighters, and you're claiming that most if not all of those countless mutants are there in the WHR, and yet these two omegas are the only ones capable of protecting fellow mutants'?

The issue isn't about individual characters, its about painting the collective Krakoans, all 250K of them, as toothless with the exception of these two defenders....when the entire premise of Krakoa was that it brought together all the many, many mutants we've seen throughout the decades, often in opposition to each other, and put them under one banner in a united cause. But now that they've done that, they keep trying to act like all those mutants who were so capable and dangerous when fighting against each other, are collectively a bunch of sheep incapable of any kind of self-defense from their external aggressors.....and the very history of the franchise and how much they hammered home that Krakoa is the cumulation of all the mutants we've seen in decades of prior stories....are the very things that MAKE this particular element so hard to suspend disbelief on.

And I don't think its too soon to be able to float that particular criticism, when its been my most consistent criticism the entire era and this is following along the exact same lines. I don't need any single character to show up. I just think they shouldn't have written the story in a way that presents only a handful of mutants as capable protectors and casts everyone else as helpless in the face of dangers without a couple omegas around to defend them.

[Sutekh]

The issue isn't about individual characters, its about painting the collective Krakoans, all 250K of them, as toothless with the exception of these two defenders....when the entire premise of Krakoa was that it brought together all the many, many mutants we've seen throughout the decades, often in opposition to each other, and put them under one banner in a united cause. But now that they've done that, they keep trying to act like all those mutants who were so capable and dangerous when fighting against each other, are collectively a bunch of sheep incapable of any kind of self-defense from their external aggressors.....and the very history of the franchise and how much they hammered home that Krakoa is the cumulation of all the mutants we've seen in decades of prior stories....are the very things that MAKE this particular element so hard to suspend disbelief on.

I feel like the bit where the Morlocks, in particular, where indicated to have said 'nope' to Krakoa and established a separate community somewhere else, and that kid was shown just running off to explore Otherworld, despite the danger, I feel like were the tips of an iceberg that we should have been shown, to establish that *lots* of different mutants and groups of mutants were explicitly not part of Krakoa, off doing their own thing, and either nowhere near a gate, or in some other way out of range of Xavier's command to flee through the gates, so that there'd be a lot more room to say, 'Oh, character X didn't use their convenient power to undo all of this, because character X is one of the mutants who *didn't* get wished into the cornfield with Hope and Exodus.'

Names don't even need to be named. But suggesting that there's a lot more squirreled away in Otherworld or Asgard or Shiar space or Limbo or otherwise beyond the reach of Xavier's command, and perhaps nowhere near a gate, or even totally unaware of the crap going down on Earth, so that it's a little more palatable that Team Useless Stones Around Hope's Neck in the desert doesn't include anyone who we know *isn't* useless.

I don't at all like that the mutant population of Marvel Earth has a hundred thousand or more mutants who are faceless hordes that exist to mostly get depowered or killed en masse in places like Genosha and Mutant Town, and don't seem to have any useful powers, *but* I'd surely rather assume these historically useless walking statistics are the faceless hordes in the desert rather than actual established experienced and competent heroes, some with impressive feats or histories (like fighting and defeating the likes of Belasco!) are just relegated to being helpless sheep that Hope and Exodus have to shepard and protect.

[Kingdom X]

The issue isn't about individual characters, its about painting the collective Krakoans, all 250K of them, as toothless with the exception of these two defenders....when the entire premise of Krakoa was that it brought together all the many, many mutants we've seen throughout the decades, often in opposition to each other, and put them under one banner in a united cause. But now that they've done that, they keep trying to act like all those mutants who were so capable and dangerous when fighting against each other, are collectively a bunch of sheep incapable of any kind of self-defense from their external aggressors.....and the very history of the franchise and how much they hammered home that Krakoa is the cumulation of all the mutants we've seen in decades of prior stories....are the very things that MAKE this particular element so hard to suspend disbelief on.

And it’s not the first time Gillen has done. Judgement Day painted Krakoa as such a vulnerable nation when really they should have been just fine fighting the Kaiju’s off.

I’m gonna say something that maybe should be saved for the “controversial opinions” thread but whatever. Gillen is a talented writer and his X-work can be entertaining, but I don’t think he was the right choice to LEAD the line after Hickman’s departure. It’s always felt like he’s only interested in a handful of characters even though his books (Immortal, SoS, etc.) should be impacting the nation of Krakoa as a whole. Even in Judgement Day it felt like mutants were a plot device to being his Eternals run to a close.

MAYBE RotPoX will change my mind since it seems like he’s writing characters beyond his usual favorites, but atp I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dominion is taken down by Diamond Sinister wielding a Phoenix sword and going out in a blaze of (annoying) glory.

[lefthanded]

This is the first Gillen Xbook of the Krakoa era that I found to be actively terrible. I bounced off hard on his Uncanny Avengers run, but have largely been enjoying his Krakoa-era books until this one.

As others have pointed out, the narration does not add anything to the narrative nor does it add to insight on the character. Yes, Jean is confused, but we really did not need a whole issue of confusion to learn that Jean is confused. In terms of the narrative, the narration doesn't add any additional insight to the proceedings. All the narration text boxes could be removed from the issue, and our understanding of what each character is going through would remain exactly the same.

Outside of the narration, it also feels like we are missing an issue or a few scenes. In both the Xavier-Sinister and the Hope-Exodus storylines, Gillen has skipped to the 'villain gives the speech to reveal their plans to the hero' instead of having the preceding scenes where the hero convinces the villain to spill their plans.

Emma's usage in this issue perfectly captures my feelings on this issue - receiving a random call out of the blue, being told a major spoiler in a nonchalant way, and then an abrupt hanging up.

[Nicoclaws]

And it’s not the first time Gillen has done. Judgement Day painted Krakoa as such a vulnerable nation when really they should have been just fine fighting the Kaiju’s off.

I’m gonna say something that maybe should be saved for the “controversial opinions” thread but whatever. Gillen is a talented writer and his X-work can be entertaining, but I don’t think he was the right choice to LEAD the line after Hickman’s departure. It’s always felt like he’s only interested in a handful of characters even though his books (Immortal, SoS, etc.) should be impacting the nation of Krakoa as a whole. Even in Judgement Day it felt like mutants were a plot device to being his Eternals run to a close.

MAYBE RotPoX will change my mind since it seems like he’s writing characters beyond his usual favorites, but atp I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dominion is taken down by Diamond Sinister wielding a Phoenix sword and going out in a blaze of (annoying) glory.

He seemed to enjoy writing character outside of his usuals, especially during Judgement day. His Nightcrawler was stellar and his Jean was quite good I think. So I do hope he gets to write more. The problem with Immortal is he was limited to half his actual cast to really dig in, as they were used elsewhere.
I'm not sure he was the leader of the line during Destiny. I thought that was Duggan.

[PhoenixStudies]

Jean's narration does have serious implications for her character though. Gillen is brining back and validating aspects of Jean's Phoenix mythos that have been ignored or overshadowed.

The line "My form, consciousness, and ability to communicate on this plane derive from you" was said by the Phoenix to Jean Grey during the shuttle encounter (Classic X-Men #8 backstory, FF 286 flashback, and was referenced by Death in Classic #43 backstory.)

This re-establishes that Jean's mind has influenced and shaped what we know as the Phoenix force to a large degree and may even hint that it really is a figment of her imagination (after all thoughts and ideas can be made real in the White Hot Room).





Also Jean's line "Jean is the house where I live and I am the house where Jean Grey lives" is a continuation of the Phoenix speaking through Jean in New X-Men 128 saying "Jean is the house where I live", but here the circle is completed. Not only is Jean the house where the Phoenix lives, but the Phoenix is the house where Jean lives. It goes on to say that the White Hot Room is where the Phoenix lives. And in the epilogue, Exodus translates the Book of Apocalypse as saying Jean is the house where Hope dwells.

The intimate connection between Jean Grey and the Phoenix and the White Hot Room is re-established to being as close as its ever been since the original version of the story/continuity.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean's narration does have serious implications for her character though. Gillen is brining back and validating aspects of Jean's Phoenix mythos that have been ignored or overshadowed.

The line "My form, consciousness, and ability to communicate on this plane derive from you" was said by the Phoenix to Jean Grey during the shuttle encounter (Classic X-Men #8 backstory, FF 286 flashback, and was referenced by Death in Classic #43 backstory.)

This re-establishes that Jean's mind has influenced and shaped what we know as the Phoenix force to a large degree and may even hint that it really is a figment of her imagination (after all thoughts and ideas can be made real in the White Hot Room).





Also Jean's line "Jean is the house where I live and I am the house where Jean Grey lives" is a continuation of the Phoenix speaking through Jean in New X-Men 128 saying "Jean is the house where I live", but here the circle is completed. Not only is Jean the house where the Phoenix lives, but the Phoenix is the house where Jean lives. It goes on to say that the White Hot Room is where the Phoenix lives. And in the epilogue, Exodus translates the Book of Apocalypse as saying Jean is the house where Hope dwells.

The intimate connection between Jean Grey and the Phoenix and the White Hot Room is re-established to being as close as its ever been since the original version of the story/continuity.

Where is this epilogue?

[PhoenixStudies]

I meant prologue.



Among the thoughts sent from Jean to Hope, “I am the house where you dwell.”

This issue and JG 4 make it clear that Hope’s Phoenix powers come through Jean.

[Frobisher]

Background mutants seeming helpless has been a problem ever since the Mutant Massacre having a relatively small number of Marauders apparently easily wipe out hundreds of Morlocks. We know that many mutations don’t actually have martial applications but rarely actually see that, with the notable exception of the “weaponless” among the Arrakoans.

I still see it as a big plot comvenience that none of the millions of mutants in the Genoshan massacre could just have stopped the attack - for instance by reliving the last day over and over in a timeloop, warning Magneto using prescience, hijacking the sentinels with technopathy, moving the island via realty warping, etc etc… and yet it needed to happen for the story to happen.

[gambitxremy]

Well. I guess this issue at some level explains why Professor Xavier has a long history of being a jerk.

There was a foreboding symmetry in this issue: Xavier being led by Sinister, and Jean being literally led on a leash by another Sinister.

With so much symmetry and rhyming, maybe Jean’s most recent death and now afterlife experience are another manipulation and attempt to corrupt the Phoenix. Her inner monologue toward the end seemed to be increasingly focused on Dark Phoenix moments.

If I had to hazard a guess: Mother Righteous is the Sinister that achieved Dominion. She knows Phoenix is most vulnerable when it (Jean) is respawning in WHR. So she is manipulating Jean / Phoenix to prevent it from resetting reality.

My theory is that Morias ninth life Mr. sinister reach full dominion

https://x.com/richieterrones/status/...KqTw6z-sgsrizw

[SugarMan]

Been re-reading the last few Immortal issues, and some things stuck out to me….

- Immortal issues always have a narrator. Still not sure who it was in 16, but in 17 it’s “all time” Jean. It’s like she exists everywhere all at once (both in her speech and narration).

- Destiny seems to be aware of an “it”. Mother Righteous knows she’s a problem.

- the rest of the “Five” seem to not have been there as long as everyone else, which could have implications.

- Hope’s explanation to Exodus in regards to the Phoenix is in the past tense, further proof she’s not an actual host.

When you consider the teaser for the issue (17), you have to suspect nothing is wrong with Jean, but she is awakening in more ways than one.