Do you think we'll ever see Tim and Stephanie as a pairing again

[ComicNoobie]

There isn't a need for a thread about Steph's place in the bat-family or direction because that place is clear. She's the 'normal one,' taking Tim's niche from when he was a good character, and she's the one nobody wanted or believed in. Those 2 aspects when combined with her plucky nature, determination, and hopeful outlook give her a great dynamic with most other characters in the bat-family. Unlike Tim, the issue isn't how to write her or what to do with her, but whether the writers and editors bother to give her the attention and respect she deserves. She could be put into any book and make it better, and it's criminal how no one at DC or Warner Brothers realizes how compelling the concept of the failed sidekick who Batman rejected is.

With Tim, there's such a vacuum of character and potential that people feel the need to throw out wacky ideas in the hope something will stick and give him something going forward. With Steph, all that has to happen is for a decent writer to start writing.

I wish they would play up the "failed sidekick that Batman rejected" more. That in itself makes Steph's place in the Batfamily unique. She doesn't excel in the same areas the other Batfamily members do and the qualities that Batman has in his sidekick/partners, but that has always made the character so compelling to watch. Her role in the Batfamily and mythos in general feels so underrated and underappreciated. It's one of the reasons she's my favorite.

[Restingvoice]

Yes
It will probably take some time but yes
How long was Barry dating Patty Spivot, Meena Dhawan and others before returning to Iris, or Dick breaking up with Barbara before currently dating, my estimate it will be about that long
So 10 years ish?
Could be faster though because the above cases was during Didio's no happiness for you era

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I dunno DC keeps trying to hype up Bernard as a replacement for Steph as Tim's love interest

[Godlike13]

Yes
It will probably take some time but yes
How long was Barry dating Patty Spivot, Meena Dhawan and others before returning to Iris, or Dick breaking up with Barbara before currently dating, my estimate it will be about that long
So 10 years ish?
Could be faster though because the above cases was during Didio's no happiness for you era

Problem is characters like Barry and Dick aren’t Tim’s contemporaries. Those are iconic characters that have stood the test of time, and those are iconic pairings that have been seen across multimedia. With Tim we should be comparing him to characters more along the lines of Kyle Rayner and asking when’s the last time we have seen him with Jade.

[Restingvoice]

Tim is more known than Kyle just being a bat character but Noct has a point that they've been pushing Bernard in casual media like WFA and Titans so to non comic readers people may know him as THE love interest to Tim compared to Steph
That said comic writers are also known to not follow casual media
Like for example multiple writers have been course correcting Talia to be less evil compared to movies live action and animated where she mainly appears as a villain so just because it's iconic to casual fans doesn't mean the writers won't return to what's been more long lasting in comics

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Tim is more known than Kyle just being a bat character but Noct has a point that they've been pushing Bernard in casual media like WFA and Titans so to non comic readers people may know him as THE love interest to Tim compared to Steph
That said comic writers are also known to not follow casual media
Like for example multiple writers have been course correcting Talia to be less evil compared to movies live action and animated where she mainly appears as a villain so just because it's iconic to casual fans doesn't mean the writers won't return to what's been more long lasting in comics

Also there is the fact I don't think WFA and Titans were really successful in building that much of a fanbase for Bernard or making people really care that much for him.

[Godlike13]

Tim is more known than Kyle just being a bat character but Noct has a point that they've been pushing Bernard in casual media like WFA and Titans so to non comic readers people may know him as THE love interest to Tim compared to Steph
That said comic writers are also known to not follow casual media
Like for example multiple writers have been course correcting Talia to be less evil compared to movies live action and animated where she mainly appears as a villain so just because it's iconic to casual fans doesn't mean the writers won't return to what's been more long lasting in comics

Talia has been a villain for well over a decade now. They haven’t really course corrected that, they just toned her down from killing her child. She is still ruthlessly taking over countries though and what have you. Tim might be a little more know but Kyle is still closer to the same vein as Tim, not the likes of Barry or Dick. No writer in DC is going to walk back him being representation anytime soon, not in today’s cultural climate, while 10 years from now it is questionable if Tim will even be around. He’s proving to not have the staying power of character’s like Barry or Dick let alone what’s going to be the lasting romantic pairing. It’s why Steph needs to move on. Because if she has to rely on Tim circling back to her, Steph is going to find herself in serious jeopardy.

[Fergus]

There isn't a need for a thread about Steph's place in the bat-family or direction because that place is clear. She's the 'normal one,' taking Tim's niche from when he was a good character, and she's the one nobody wanted or believed in. Those 2 aspects when combined with her plucky nature, determination, and hopeful outlook give her a great dynamic with most other characters in the bat-family. Unlike Tim, the issue isn't how to write her or what to do with her, but whether the writers and editors bother to give her the attention and respect she deserves. She could be put into any book and make it better, and it's criminal how no one at DC or Warner Brothers realizes how compelling the concept of the failed sidekick who Batman rejected is.

With Tim, there's such a vacuum of character and potential that people feel the need to throw out wacky ideas in the hope something will stick and give him something going forward. With Steph, all that has to happen is for a decent writer to start writing.

Isn't Babs the 'normal one'?

The issue with Steph is what to do with her. On writers and editors giving her the respect and attention she deserves?
Comics characters only deserve to get used if they are making money. batgirls didn't sell great likely why Steph doesn't have a home.

The failed sidekick and the Robin Batman rejected are compelling and are often explored in Damian and Jason storylines so those aren't unique.

I don't know why fans would want Tim and steph back together or what the incentive is for DC writers to get them back together.

Tim does nothing to elevate Steph's characters and vice versa so don't know why anyone besides hardcore shippers would want the duo back together.

Tim is bi therefore he needs a significant male love interest to off-set the Bi=sleeps around stereotype.

DC has a reason to keep Tim dating boys but until Tim has a Male lover that can be comparable to Steph then that pair ain't getting back together.

Even if Tim and Bernard break up. He's not going to date Steph. He'll date another boy.

[Fergus]

@Godlike is correct.

I would be more concerned about Tim still being around 10 years from now. His future has been bleak for a while now. There's only so many lifelines he can cling to. Making him representation was a last ditch lifeline.
Lets hope he sticks around and that Steph doesn't get dragged down with him.

[Fergus]

Tim/kon has made it into tumblrs top 100 ships list for the first time.

No 89 in the 2023 list. Superbat also made the list so maybe Tim should date Jon next.

[Jackalope89]

Tim/kon has made it into tumblrs top 100 ships list for the first time.

No 89 in the 2023 list. Superbat also made the list so maybe Tim should date Jon next.

Yeah, no. I don't even care for fake/aged up Jon, and even I don't want the Super brand dragged down as an anchor just because two characters happen to be bisexual.

Also, I don't care what Tumblr, AO3, or even X/Twitter says. Those people just like to oogle at pics of pretty boys and write bad fanfics of them. Buying a comic to actually support the real characters? Yeah, we saw how that goes with Tim recently.

Maybe Tim will get his "Red Hood" story down the line. But right now, even 1980s Jason was more relevant, given that people actually called to vote on his fate. Tim doesn't have that right now. Best to do his "ride off into the sunset, for now" with him until writers figure out an actually GOOD story for him, rather than kill him off ala Heroes in Crisis and what not. Could do his college and private life thing, then come back down the line for some big event or something. But right now, trying to yoink other characters' brands (most of which are smaller than Robin) or make him a new minority by altering his sexuality and revolving his life around that, is NOT a good story. He's on the razor's edge right now.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Tim/kon has made it into tumblrs top 100 ships list for the first time.

No 89 in the 2023 list. Superbat also made the list so maybe Tim should date Jon next.

Who cares what Tumblr thinks? Like really. Do you think more people really pair Superman with Batman over Lois and Catwoman or Miles with Hobie over Gwen? One of the top is Bowser and Luigi, Sonic x Shadow

[Fergus]

Yeah, no. I don't even care for fake/aged up Jon, and even I don't want the Super brand dragged down as an anchor just because two characters happen to be bisexual.

Also, I don't care what Tumblr, AO3, or even X/Twitter says. Those people just like to oogle at pics of pretty boys and write bad fanfics of them. Buying a comic to actually support the real characters? Yeah, we saw how that goes with Tim recently.

Maybe Tim will get his "Red Hood" story down the line. But right now, even 1980s Jason was more relevant, given that people actually called to vote on his fate. Tim doesn't have that right now. Best to do his "ride off into the sunset, for now" with him until writers figure out an actually GOOD story for him, rather than kill him off ala Heroes in Crisis and what not. Could do his college and private life thing, then come back down the line for some big event or something. But right now, trying to yoink other characters' brands (most of which are smaller than Robin) or make him a new minority by altering his sexuality and revolving his life around that, is NOT a good story. He's on the razor's edge right now.

Casuals and shippers don't buy comics but they buy merch and support outside media projects.

As a Jason fan you should be aware of their value more than most. Jason isn't a big seller when it comes to comics. Heck most Jason/Red Hood Fans don't know the 'Real' character from the comics.

His popularity and gains that justify DC keeping RHATO going even past cancellation numbers comes from the same social media fans who 'like to oogle pretty boys etc'


Those guys buy lots of merch, play games, watch shows and generate a lot of internet traffic. Which is why Red hood usually is in the priority grouping when manufacturers decide who gets Action Figures.

I do agree that Tim should be benched till someone comes up with a good idea.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I seriously doubt those shippers are the ones keeping Jason going. If they did TD:R would still be on. Red Hood's fanbase is beyond shippers

[Fergus]

Who cares what Tumblr thinks? Like really. Do you think more people really pair Superman with Batman over Lois and Catwoman or Miles with Hobie over Gwen? One of the top is Bowser and Luigi, Sonic x Shadow

Yes. More of the demographic that uses tumblr and that devotes time to shipping related content on tumblr do ship Bats with Supes.

Bear in mind that unlike Tim and Robins not named Dick Grayson. Batman and Superman fandoms crossover so many demographics [non tumblr age groups, age groups with no interest in ships and age groups who don't have the time to devote to online shipping content]

Tumblr users are age group = 17 - 35 that Tim's currently target audience and the age group that would have read him as Robin.

You are taking the wrong reading from that list. Just like the CBR list you cited earlier, you need to consider the source, limitations and what's not covered.