Do you think we'll ever see Tim and Stephanie as a pairing again

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Yet his Robin series bombed, and the majority of projects with him in the last decade have been sales disappointments. They made him a regular in Batman to help establish his return to Robin, but it turned out to be a failure on multiple fronts. He’s not there because of demand or because he generates anything these days.

I mean Knight Terrors Robin shows in the right hands he does generate something. Also in this CBR poll Tim was 17

https://www.cbr.com/dc-top-superheroes-20-16/

I think people like him it's just what is being put out doesn't appeal to his fans.

[CPSparkles]

I mean Knight Terrors Robin shows in the right hands he does generate something. Also in this CBR poll Tim was 17

https://www.cbr.com/dc-top-superheroes-20-16/

I think people like him it's just what is being put out doesn't appeal to his fans.

You site CBR lists as evidence of popularity yet you discount multitude users on Twitter, Tumblr, AO3 and Tik tok as a sign of popularity.

You keep twisting any harder you're gonna end up in knots.

At some point you guys are going to run of people to blame and have to face the fact that Tim isn't the character he used to be and readers change.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

You site CBR lists compiled by ONEas evidence of popularity yet you discount multitude users on Twitter, Tumblr, AO3 and Tik tok as a sign of popularity.

You keep twisting any harder you're gonna end up in knots.

If we took A03 and tumblr seriously we'd have to believe Tim's most popular pairing among fans is with Jason...........

Pretty sure at least the CBR voters read comics.

[CPSparkles]

If we took A03 and tumblr seriously we'd have to believe Tim's most popular pairing among fans is with Jason...........

Pretty sure at least the CBR voters read comics.

Jay/Tim or Tim/Kon are his most popular pairing by a lot.
CBR voters do read comics and everyone of them bought a copy of Tim's book. That's 1000 issues sold.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Jay/Tim or Tim/Kon are his most popular pairing by a lot.
CBR voters do read comics and everyone of them bought a copy of Tim's book. That's 1000 issues sold.

A03 also has Jason's most popular pairing be with Dick..........and that overshadows Dick with Kory and Dick with Babs. Do you think that is reflective of most Dick fans or just people who see these characters as shipping muses?

How do we know CBR voters bought Tim's recent book and didn't base their decision off other stuff with him?

[CPSparkles]

Here's the thing, most of these people are just niche shippers/fanon crwond who don't even know a thing about Tim that much and won't invest much in the actual material at all if ever and won't earrn money (same with Jaytim). Social media loves Olicity from Arrow and still post about it and it trends more than Green Arrow and Black Canary but where is Felicity Smoak now? The point of marketing is also to get returns but if the demograph you are marketing towards won't actually invest money in you then why bother? Do you think Miles is just carried by fan art?

And if the general public knowledge was good enough the Inhumans would still be a big thing and more pushed.

There other gains from public awareness that Robin is Bi.
Such as Corporate Social Responsibility awards and meeting Industry regulated DEI Best practise standards.

DC as a brand has had a tough time due to the live action movies. wB and Discovery would like to be seen as progressive and positive so having two known conic mantles be associated with LGBtQ inclusive ganers goodwill for the brand.

The couple doesn't need to sell comics. They just need to be a thing that was in a canon comic at some time and general public be reminded every now and again that there's a bi Robin. Dc doesn't even need to put him in a series. Just pull him out every Pride or occasionally reference the fact that he's dating a guy.

Tim wasn't earning DC a bunch anyway, at least now he has a boyfriend he can be some value to WB by helping them tick some boxes they need to be compliant with DEI standards.

[CPSparkles]

A03 also has Jason's most popular pairing be with Dick..........and that overshadows Dick with Kory and Dick with Babs. Do you think that is reflective of most Dick fans or just people who see these characters as shipping muses?

How do we know CBR voters bought Tim's recent book and didn't base their decision off other stuff with him?

are their people who aren't fans of their muses?

Stuff with Tim has been divisive for years now. YJ by Bendis, Tec, TT by Lobdell, Batman Beyond and Chip's Batman. The only positive stuff with him in recent years was Robin Eternal and UL.

So it could be either. It doesn't matter since a poll is worthless and Tim's solo sold more than a 1000 copies.
That poll isn't a sign of popularity. I can however gurantee you that more than 1000 of those shippers across social media did 100% buy his solo

[CPSparkles]

Tim is around as he has fans but as for Bernard....no idea. His so called "fans" don't seem to support him where it counts

You mean that Tim's so called fans didn't show up to support him where it counts. That is what happened. There are no such thing as fans of Bernard. There are Tim fans who like/tolerate Bernard but there isn't a fanbase for Bernard.

How can there be.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

You mean that Tim's so called fans didn't show up to support him where it counts. That is what happened. There are no such thing as fans of Bernard. There are Tim fans who like/tolerate Bernard but there isn't a fanbase for Bernard.

How can there be.

You can be a fan of a person and not buy their current direction. Sales dipped for Ric Grayson and Batman after the Wedding fiasco, and it was due to fans voting with their wallet about the current direction.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

are their people who aren't fans of their muses?

Stuff with Tim has been divisive for years now. YJ by Bendis, Tec, TT by Lobdell, Batman Beyond and Chip's Batman. The only positive stuff with him in recent years was Robin Eternal and UL.

So it could be either. It doesn't matter since a poll is worthless and Tim's solo sold more than a 1000 copies.
That poll isn't a sign of popularity. I can however gurantee you that more than 1000 of those shippers across social media did 100% buy his solo

Most of people are fans of the version they invented in their HC rather than the actual characters and don't consume the source material. These people admit it all the time.

Maybe relying on the poll was a bad idea, I admit. But it stands there were not enough fans of tim's solo to keep it going. Like all the stuff above you cited outsold it. Even Ghostmaker outsold it.

[Frontier]

There other gains from public awareness that Robin is Bi.
Such as Corporate Social Responsibility awards and meeting Industry regulated DEI Best practise standards.

DC as a brand has had a tough time due to the live action movies. wB and Discovery would like to be seen as progressive and positive so having two known conic mantles be associated with LGBtQ inclusive ganers goodwill for the brand.

The couple doesn't need to sell comics. They just need to be a thing that was in a canon comic at some time and general public be reminded every now and again that there's a bi Robin. Dc doesn't even need to put him in a series. Just pull him out every Pride or occasionally reference the fact that he's dating a guy.

Tim wasn't earning DC a bunch anyway, at least now he has a boyfriend he can be some value to WB by helping them tick some boxes they need to be compliant with DEI standards.

I've yet to be convinced they're making their value back with this.

[Godlike13]

I mean Knight Terrors Robin shows in the right hands he does generate something. Also in this CBR poll Tim was 17

https://www.cbr.com/dc-top-superheroes-20-16/

I think people like him it's just what is being put out doesn't appeal to his fans.

Its shows events generate something. Sold on his own, he bombed. Its very telling how quickly they ended his book and put together a Batman and Robin book with Damian. Tim is not generating in comics, or out of comics. Thats not really arguable at this point.

[Frontier]

Its shows events generate something. Sold on his own, he bombed. Its very telling how quickly they ended his book and put together a Batman and Robin book with Damian. Tim is not generating in comics, or out of comics. Thats not really arguable at this point.

You can't always count on tumblr.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

You can never count on tumblr

[skyvolt2000]

The couple doesn't need to sell comics. They just need to be a thing that was in a canon comic at some time and general public be reminded every now and again that there's a bi Robin. Dc doesn't even need to put him in a series. Just pull him out every Pride or occasionally reference the fact that he's dating a guy.

NO NO NO NO That is pure tokenism and will get called out every time as it should be.

See Prodigy at X-Men since coming out as bi-he has been killed twice (including by a man who killed LGBTQA+ but we NEVER saw the story), made a joke by Antman, background duty, and stuck in pride books.
Only 1 book treated him as something other than a bisexual black male-the Coates run of Black Panther.

Like Prodigy-you have to sell Tim as something other than the bisexual (Male LGBTQA+ hero) in the Bat Family. Because what will most likely happen is he'll be used for some ABC Afterschool Special issue of Batman or DC.

We have all seen them-show that has been POC free or the token POC rarely talk to other POC suddenly have a racism, sexism or homophobia episode or issue.

Muhammad X in Superman anyone???
Bloodsport always going after Ron Tremble (Lana's husband in the old DC)?
Batman Seduction of the Gun (made in response to a WB executive's son being killed by a gun)

I've yet to be convinced they're making their value back with this.

You can but much like with Duke Thomas (and a LOT of others) your money is going to have to be earned OUTSIDE of the comic book store.

You can't do a comic of adventures of Tim Drake and his boyfriend but you CAN do an OGN of that.

You can get away with a graphic novel.

You can't always count on tumblr.

You can NEVER EVER Count on Tumblr.

They will call you everything in the book and lecture you like nobody's business.

Example-CW's Tom Swift. As MUCH complaining as I saw about the show being axed and how the CW hated black gay males.

Search through Tumblr- 90% of the posts for that show was shirtless pic of Tian Richards (Tom Swift), Tom Swift sexing his boyfriend, pics of Zenzi and WAY too many pics of Tom's outfits and where to buy them.
I could NOT tell you a thing about that show if I had to go by Tumblr. A show with Levar Burton.

Those folks do not show up to SUPPORT.