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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shugahfree View Post
    For one, not every character (including the A-Listers) need to be on the team at all times IMO. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

    Secondly, I'd split up some of the bigger named characters throughout the line to

    A) Forge new dynamics
    B) Give star power to 'riskier' titles/concepts

    I do think fewer titles (ideally 4) with tighter casts and big rotating supporting players is the way to go.

    I think its also time to let some characters cook in other parts of the MU.

    Magik should be Sorceress Supreme or at least be on the journey to that title.

    Kurt is a very Avenger-y type of character.

    Let Cece Reyes join the Daredevil supporting cast.
    I very much agree with the forging of new dynamics bit. It was great when the X-Men split into Blue and Gold teams, and we got to see A) Jean and Scott on different teams, and B) Jean and Ororo really getting to bond and hang out.

    I definitely would like to see some new mix ups. Tons of characters have interesting connections we've never seen. (What does Proteus think of Jamie and Rahne, who were *raised by his mom* while he was locked in a cell, like the Thing Under the Stairs? We'll probably never know. What does Tran think of Amal Farouk, who did to his sister (with him trapped inside to experience it) what he used to do to others before his sister stopped him? What do the many X-characters with similar powers think of each other? Do they train together, all those force field chicklets; Skids, Armor, Unuscione, Cecelia Reyes?, or all those Bug-Wing-Girls; Papillion, Butterfly, Pixie, Angel Salvatore, Sprite, or all those timey-wimey-manipulators; Tempus, Tempo, Timeslip, Lacuna, Sway, Visionary? There are thirty odd telepaths, sure, but what about those half-dozen teleporters, or technopaths, or precognitives?)

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    You know since they are ending Al Ewing Avengers title at 5 I hope he sticks with the X-office in the new era and they give him time to cook and do a long run with A-list X-Men.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    All right, for some reason I actually bothered to think about this over the weekend. This is a rough idea of what I came up with for teams.

    I included more than six members for some teams and less for others. I will limit myself to six characters for this thread and then list the other characters that I would have included.

    I also tried to come up with comics that I thought would have a good chance of selling well enough to last past 6 to 12 issues. I also gave some thought on how to rebuild the X-Factor and Excalibur brands so that they would at least be on the level of X-Force.

    1) Uncanny X-Men
    Storm
    Colossus
    Nightcrawler
    Starfire
    Prodigy
    Moonstar
    I had also included I think it was Jubliee without the six member limit.

    This comic shouldn't have to much trouble selling issues seeing as it would have Storm, Nightcrawler, and Colossus from the ANAD team. I wanted to keep Starfire in the group so that she could keep ascending up the X-Men ranks. Moonstar and Prodigy would be newish members to the team to keep the lineup a little different.
    Jubilee would have been included because I thought that she would bounce off of the more serious personalities and she might help sell the comic.
    With the tittle Uncanny X-Me I don't think that you have to worry about the brand name or premise that much. You just need a writer to pitch you good idea.

    2) X-Men
    Sync
    Wolverine
    Gambit
    Rouge
    Psylocke
    Greycrow
    Siryn would have been on the team but she gets cut because of six member limit.

    I wanted to keep Sync and make him the leader so that he could try to keep his momentum up from Krakoa era. To offset the chance that you are taking by making Sync the team leader I included Gambit, Rouge, Wolverine, and Psylocke to make sure the comic would sell issues. This lineup should benefit from having old as well as new character interactions from the newish members like Sync and Kwannon. I kept Greycrow over Siryn because of the character interactions that Greycrow brings with Gambit and Psylocke.
    Since this is X-Men and I put some sells boosters in the lineup I don't think that you have to worry about the brand name as much.

    3) X-Force
    Cable
    Bishop
    Domino
    Warpath
    Laura Kinney
    Magik
    X-Force has a brand that you recognize as soon as you see it. You know that you are getting a wetworks team that kills it's enemies, so I wasn't really worried about the brand name on this comic. My X-Force team lost a lot of members because of the six member limit. Off the top of my head I had also included Deadpool, Sunspot, Shatterstar, and I believe 1 or 2 others.

    4) X-Factor
    Cyclops
    Jean Grey
    Archangel
    Beast
    Iceman

    I chose this lineup for X-Factor because I believe that the X-Factor brand name has become really damaged. It's no longer a big name tittle and I felt that starting off with this lineup for 2 or 3 years could help make the comic feel big again. I know that a lot of people don't like the O5, and normally I wouldn't want to see this, but they can sell issues given what we saw from All New X-Men and X-Men Blue. So you let the O5 rebuild this brand for 2 or 3 years, and after the comic feels big again you start to cycle a few of the O5 members out and start cycling other characters in. The new characters could come from other versions of past X-Factor lineups or characters who hadn't been members of the team before.
    I know that this leaves characters like Polaris without something to do for while, but I think that having a healthy X-Factor brand that can last for more than 12 issues will be worth the wait.
    For a premise I think that you use the detective/investigator idea that some of the later teams had. I think that you should also go back to how the O5 always had human support characters.

    EDIT: I thought about the idea of using the O5 as the start of a new X-Factor team some more and realized what a stupid idea it actually was. So if you are unfortunate enough to read this post ignore the X-Factor part.

    Excalibur
    Brian Braddock
    Meggan
    Rachel
    Shadowkat
    Betsy Braddock
    Chamber
    This is sort of like X-Factor where I chose most of the original cast except that Nightcrawler is gone and Betsy and Chamber take her place.
    I'm less sure that a retro line up will help the Excalibur brand than I am about an original X-Factor team. I didn't read the original Excalibur, and from what I have read online the comic sold on the strength of the creative team more than it's characters or story premise. So I think that this lineup could be in for some trouble.

    I was working out ideas for New Mutants and Uncanny Avengers teams. That's why you don't see some of the other popular characters. I hadn't put as much thought into them yet.
    Last edited by Thievery; 11-28-2023 at 04:35 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    (...)
    So how do we fix this? Rotating casts? The eventual sidelining of Scott, Jean, Kitty or Storm just so others can have some spotlight? Ship off characters to other corners of Marvel?

    I have no perfect plan. I just don’t want to go through periods like the one we have where so many good characters are sidelined.
    The problem is indeed that new characters keep being added for flavor, while no new spots become free (or for long), what ever it's hero or villain. While there is not enough buyership to sustain enough space for all these characters.
    It's like a reverse battle royal, where the ring keeps getting smaller, but instead of characters dying more get added.

    Perhaps the harsh truth both the readers and the comic division at Marvel have to eventualy accept or at least consider as possible, is that the entire idea of trying to maintain a perpetual ongoing narrative, but with a stagnat world state and only the same few characters as central focus for over several decades of continuous publishing, has created a dead end situation.

    How are people supposed to become and stay invested when they eventualy realise that nothing matters, yet they are supposed to stay excited for more stories?
    Characters will never reach a point where their adventures can feel completed or end. Grand goals will never be achieved. The "next generation" will keep being replaced by a new, while the old never leaves. Humanity will keep having to mirror that of the real world, despite their world being full of the fantastical to the point of mundanity.

    The "too many characters, not enough space" problem is perhaps just a sympthon of an overall issue that Marvel's comics has run into by relying on a system never meant for this kind of paradoxical story telling.

    One that can't decide if it wants to tell stand alone stories in a lose continuity, where someone can pick up any chapter/issue and just read a random story about the characters they allready know, or if it want's a serious firm continuity, where large amounts of pre-existing stories need to be understood to know what's going on in the newest one.

    Even long running shonen manga eventualy end, yet Marvel insist that it has to keep the same characters going in an perpetual narrative without major changes, end points or even worse constant regression, perhaps because of the feeling that this is how it was always done and with the change to a mainly collectors oriented buyership in the 1990's it worked well enough for them so far.

    But with more and more american comic book shops closing down or diversifying their product offerings (mainly to sci-fi and fantasy merchandise and novels, toys, role playing systems, model sets, manga, etc.), and the collectors becoming more picky or change their focus on other IPs, it seems that perhaps sooner or later they actualy need to decide on a real direction for what these comics are supposed to be narrative wise.

    So it's unlikely that cutting down titles and teams to the same character who experienced most of their well regarded and defining stories 30+ years ago, by itself is actualy going to change things for the better.
    Last edited by Grunty; 11-27-2023 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Kind of agreeing with you all now. I think 2 main titles and 3 side titles is cool.

    And then give the other generations 6 issue mini's each year so they at least show up annually.

    New Mutants should already be part of main X-Men teams as well as GenX but if they cant give them minis.

    They did Magma and Skin dirty. The only hispanic latino character that got some shine is Rictor and Sunspot (yes hes afro latino)

    So like give Gen Hope Unlimited X-Men stories

    Academy X-Men student mini's

    etc etc

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    I require Cyclops to be prominent, although he doesn’t need to be the focus. He is required to be able to actively affect the plot, or I sign out of the entire franchise until that is rectified.

    So it's been several years since I have paid for a Marvel comic.
    Last edited by Gray Lensman; 11-27-2023 at 06:12 PM.
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  7. #22

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    X-Men
    X-Force
    X-Factor
    Wolverine
    Deadpool

    That's all I need. Classic X-Men lineup(with a few changes), back to the mansion, Shi'ar tech and all. I don't care what the current climate says, I prefer it over Krakoa. X-Factor would kinda be like the Fantastic Four of the X-books starring Cyclops, ****, ****, ****, ****, and ****. Even though I enjoyed the Remender X-Force lineup the most, I still associate X-Force with Cable and that would be his book, so no Wolverine there. Wolverine would be Madripoor based so his X-Men adventures would be limited, kinda like how Batman was with the Justice League. Deadpool would be less goofy, but still kinda goofy... deadly and unpredictable again.

  8. #23
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    While I greatly prefer ongoings, or at least a run that lasts 12 issues, one of the good things about mini's is that different characters get to be featured. If a mini like Dead X-Men does well then maybe the demand will allow for them to stay together in a second mini. If not, at least those characters were featured for 4 months.

    I actually like the current mix of books and I'd probably aim for something similar. Four or five team ongoings that feature some big names with a few minor characters sprinkled in each, then mini's that rotate other popular characters. Brevoort said the number of books in the line under him will stay about the same so let's say there's at least 10 books at all times. With five team ongoings that leaves room for Wolverine and four rotating slots for mini's, which can be teams, solos, or duos (like CotV). Some characters will be off the board for a time but we know that's inevitable with such a large pool of characters.
    We are very much on the same page, here.

    X-Men...Featuring the O5 - A set team of 8 with supporting "behind the scenes" characters
    UXM...Made up of 2nd Generation/ANAD mutants and New Mutants characters...Rotating cast.
    Generation X...A "Mansion/Academy" book training the many new, younger mutants.
    XMRed...Stays as is dealing with Space/Cosmic drama (If it ain't broke don't fix it)
    Wolverine...with many guest appearances.
    and
    three or four Minis/LS... as wanted, featuring lesser used/known characters.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 11-27-2023 at 09:53 PM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Uncanny X-Men: New mutants / Gen X characters
    New Mutants : Academy X / Gen Hope characters
    Academy X: Youngest ones like Monet or Karma's siblings
    Brotherhood: Anti-heros and Anti-villains
    X-Factor: rotating cast

    Old X-Men: Cyclops: Starjammers. Wolverine: Alpha Flight. Storm: Thor Corps. Jean: asbtracts. Iceman: Amazing Friends. Beast: Avengers. etc.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Brevoort has already talked about how we’re getting roughly the same number of books as usual, so taking the Destiny of X era as a baseline (as it was the last big “era” before the current minis), we had X-men, Immortal, Red, X-force, Marauders, Knights of X, Legion of X and New Mutants. So 8 team books, which I think is a decent enough number.

    If it was up to me, the new line would be:
    Uncanny X-men (continuing the superheroic take, as protectors of the oppressed)
    New X-men (the young mutants lose their trust on the older ones and decide to create their own movement)
    X-treme X-men (Storm’s cosmic team)
    Excalibur (keep them as protectors of Otherworld, but bring back the Alan Davis vibe)
    X-factor (the team trying to rehabilitate mutantkind’s image)
    X-force (I like the mutant CIA concept, but they can do it better)
    Marauders (protectors of the newly reestablished nation of Genosha)
    New Mutants (a rescue team for newly-activated mutants across the world)

    CASTS (max 7 per team)
    UXM: Jean Grey, Jubilee, Synch, Cyclops, Kitty, Thunderbird, Magik
    NXM: Surge, Armor, Laura, Hellion, Hope, Anole, Wind Dancer
    XXM: Storm, Cannonball, Manifold, Sunfire, Magneto, Khora
    EXC: Betsy, Pixie, Brian, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Askani
    XFA: Emma, Iceman, Angel, Dazzler, Northstar, Monet
    XFO: Wolverine, Cable, Bishop, Sage, Domino, Tempo, Boom Boom
    MRD: Polaris, Rogue, Gambit, Frenzy, Kwannon, Greycrow
    NMs: Moonstar, Warpath, Chamber, Husk, Dust, Cuckoos

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Hmm.... oooh... I'd Make BIG rosters, and avoid duplicates. Hmm.... that'll take a lot of thonking....

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    When I saw this thread, my mind immediately went back to Alan Moore's Youngblood proposal:

    Firstly, I think the team should be designed as a smaller and sleeker unit. Six members is the upper limit, I think, and that's the number I'm going to go for. If you have more characters than that, the action gets cluttered and it becomes increasingly difficult for the writer and the artist to establish each character as a real and solid person in their own right. It's like schooling. In a class with six kids, each child will receive a lot more attention and thus get on a lot better than in a classroom with thirty kids.
    I find it hard to disagree with that. While I also like big teams and some writers have written larger team books very effectively with more than 6 characters, the truth is a lot of writers struggle to write team books and are unable to properly focus on multiple characters, so what's the point of adding characters to the roster if they're just going to be sitting around and be wallpaper?

    And while I think that writers who are unable to write a team book should just not write a team book, a narrower focus could definitely help those who are more inexperienced with large casts and force them to give every character some attention.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    I just need my GAMBIT solo ongoing.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    When I saw this thread, my mind immediately went back to Alan Moore's Youngblood proposal:



    I find it hard to disagree with that. While I also like big teams and some writers have written larger team books very effectively with more than 6 characters, the truth is a lot of writers struggle to write team books and are unable to properly focus on multiple characters, so what's the point of adding characters to the roster if they're just going to be sitting around and be wallpaper?

    And while I think that writers who are unable to write a team book should just not write a team book, a narrower focus could definitely help those who are more inexperienced with large casts and force them to give every character some attention.
    5 to 7 does seem like an ideal number.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member wlfking's Avatar
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    I like the idea someone mentioned here that writers should have to make sure an existing character doesn't fit what ever role they need before creating a new character.

    As for books.
    Erm. Youth book. Black ops book. Xmen book. Fantasy book.

    There was an X-Men series that could be about any mutant or mutants right? X-Men Unlimited or something like that? That could be used to give lesser used character something to do.
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