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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I have a problem with Raven's powers working like that. So she's basically a skrull now? Imitating not just appearances but full genetic codes? How does she access this information? Just from looking at someone?
    Her power never really made sense. She can look at a 2D photograph and somehow replicate every fine detail of a person's irises and fingerprints, etc. So, obviously there was some kind of subconscious mental ability to do more than she could do consciously. It is weird to give her explicit genetic-level [subconsciously] manipulating abilities, but she can't replicate other mutants powers. Whatever.
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  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant X View Post
    Nemesis didn't know she replicated Azazel's mutant gene and passed it to Kurt.
    Basically confirming her as a Omega.
    To be Omega, you have to be the best at that ability. I think Meggan actually still outclasses Mystique in the shape-shifting department. At least with Rachel's [subconscious?] assistance, she was able to replicate the mutant powers of all the X-Men in that one issue of Excalibur back in the day.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #78
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I've never really been a fan of Spurrier's work, and this issue did not change that sentiment. What a sloppy story. I mean, I'm glad the whole Azazel thing was undone essentially, but they should have just let Lord Claremont tell this story if they were going to do it. And have Irene at least look like a 50 year old, even if she was much older, to kinda align with her elderly appearance in the 1980's books. Kurt turned 21 in that era, so it's not a big gap. For her to go from fresh faced 20-something to 70+ wrinkled granny in about 20 years doesn't really make sense.

    Also, Professor mindwiping them while walking doesn't make sense; he was paralyzed at about age 25 or so, a little after leaving Oxford and the war, explicitly 10 years before X-Men#1. He had only met Ororo, Shadow King, Magneto, Sage, and Amelia Voght at that point, and returned to the US with Amelia, crippled. So either that scene takes place before he left for Oxford(at like, age 16), or it happens when he's back in the US with Amelia, pre-X-Men, but paralyzed. Maybe I missed some other retcons about him and Mystique's history, but the timing just doesn't work. Also, canon has been clear that Rogue was a more like a tween-young teenager when she was adopted, not a tiny child.
    Another hole in this story that I hadnt thought ot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant X View Post
    Nemesis didn't know she replicated Azazel's mutant gene and passed it to Kurt.
    Basically confirming her as a Omega.
    Um no. The issue was explicit in mentioning the clear limitation that prevents her from being an omega. She can not access powers. Thats the limitation. Skrulls exist and negate any speculation that she could be an omega bc they can do that and have surpassed her on that front

    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    To be Omega, you have to be the best at that ability. I think Meggan actually still outclasses Mystique in the shape-shifting department. At least with Rachel's [subconscious?] assistance, she was able to replicate the mutant powers of all the X-Men in that one issue of Excalibur back in the day.
    Also wasnt there n omega shapeshifter in Xmen Red/SWORD? The one that fought Storm
    Last edited by Havok83; 11-29-2023 at 08:09 PM.

  4. #79
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    There can only be one per ability has never actually been something stated by Hickman. He himself literally put two people on the omega list with omega telepathy listed as their ability. Omega is a classification that denotes mutants with powers beyond conceivable measurement. It does not actually create a there can only be one hierarchical ranking as a lot of people often claim it to mean. If it did, Hickman would never have put both Jean and Quentin on the list with the same power. By the very definition people are attributing to his list, only one of those two could have been the most powerful telepath and thus hold the omega telepath title. They’re both on the list because his definition of omega simply said their power can not be surpassed by non mutant means. Two mutants can exist in that indeterminate measureless stratosphere. Omegas are essentially mutants without ceiling…they just have to clear a certain floor that exists as any non omega’s ceiling.

    Otherwise NO omega’s place on that list would actually be guaranteed. Instead it would be a constantly revolving merry go round the second any new mutant was born that was more powerful than someone previously stated to be the omega of that ability.

  5. #80
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    This was a wild ride for me. My knowledge of Kurt's parentage was that Mystique was mom and that "maybe" Azazel was dad. I have no idea what the Draco is, and it sound's like I should probably keep it that way. I was genuinely confused why Mystique chose to have a baby bump at the same time as Destiny, maybe I misunderstood, but if she didn't appear pregnant wouldn't the Count she was hitched to at the time been less suspicious of her infidelity with Azazel? I'll have to re-read the issue for that. At the end of the day though now Mystique is DadMom and Irene is Mom, I like the family aspect of it, and I like that Kurt seemed to be happy to finally learn his true lineage. I understand why this was a one shot, but Spurrier did an amazing job at making it feel like another issue of Uncanny Spiderman. If this gets collected than this issue will fit perfectly in with the others.

    One other thing I was a bit confused about. The issue says that Mystique can't replicate mutant power's but haven't we seen her do this before? I'm pretty sure she shifted into Logan and used claws in Aaron's "Get Mystique" book. It's been awhile since I read it so I definitely could be wrong about that.
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  6. #81
    Astonishing Member RAWRlrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    This was a wild ride for me. My knowledge of Kurt's parentage was that Mystique was mom and that "maybe" Azazel was dad. I have no idea what the Draco is, and it sound's like I should probably keep it that way. I was genuinely confused why Mystique chose to have a baby bump at the same time as Destiny, maybe I misunderstood, but if she didn't appear pregnant wouldn't the Count she was hitched to at the time been less suspicious of her infidelity with Azazel? I'll have to re-read the issue for that. At the end of the day though now Mystique is DadMom and Irene is Mom, I like the family aspect of it, and I like that Kurt seemed to be happy to finally learn his true lineage. I understand why this was a one shot, but Spurrier did an amazing job at making it feel like another issue of Uncanny Spiderman. If this gets collected than this issue will fit perfectly in with the others.

    One other thing I was a bit confused about. The issue says that Mystique can't replicate mutant power's but haven't we seen her do this before? I'm pretty sure she shifted into Logan and used claws in Aaron's "Get Mystique" book. It's been awhile since I read it so I definitely could be wrong about that.
    I thought the point was so Mystique could claim that she was the one who gave birth to Kurt and allow him to be kept at the castle with her. Although the doctor's would have complicated that.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    One other thing I was a bit confused about. The issue says that Mystique can't replicate mutant power's but haven't we seen her do this before? I'm pretty sure she shifted into Logan and used claws in Aaron's "Get Mystique" book. It's been awhile since I read it so I definitely could be wrong about that.
    Well, a claw is a claw. She can change hair, nails and even bones, after all. A slightly more outré example is the time she grew functional Angel-style wings in X-Factor during Onslaught, but even that is a wing-is-a-wing to some extent (although there's the whole thing about how, even with hollow bones, Warren actually needs super-strength to be able to fly...). But she can't teleport/telepath/telekine, nor turn into steel or whatever.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    This was a wild ride for me. My knowledge of Kurt's parentage was that Mystique was mom and that "maybe" Azazel was dad. I have no idea what the Draco is, and it sound's like I should probably keep it that way. I was genuinely confused why Mystique chose to have a baby bump at the same time as Destiny, maybe I misunderstood, but if she didn't appear pregnant wouldn't the Count she was hitched to at the time been less suspicious of her infidelity with Azazel? I'll have to re-read the issue for that. At the end of the day though now Mystique is DadMom and Irene is Mom, I like the family aspect of it, and I like that Kurt seemed to be happy to finally learn his true lineage. I understand why this was a one shot, but Spurrier did an amazing job at making it feel like another issue of Uncanny Spiderman. If this gets collected than this issue will fit perfectly in with the others.

    One other thing I was a bit confused about. The issue says that Mystique can't replicate mutant power's but haven't we seen her do this before? I'm pretty sure she shifted into Logan and used claws in Aaron's "Get Mystique" book. It's been awhile since I read it so I definitely could be wrong about that.
    Bone claws and wings are one thing... Replicating Scott or Alex Summers's powers like is second nature to her is quite another

  9. #84
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanityOrMadness View Post
    Well, a claw is a claw. She can change hair, nails and even bones, after all. A slightly more outré example is the time she grew functional Angel-style wings in X-Factor during Onslaught, but even that is a wing-is-a-wing to some extent (although there's the whole thing about how, even with hollow bones, Warren actually needs super-strength to be able to fly...). But she can't teleport/telepath/telekine, nor turn into steel or whatever.
    That makes sense but I’m fairly certain she had “metal claws” when she shifted. I’ll have to dig out those issues.
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  10. #85
    Incredible Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Having not read the issue yet but this literally being the obvious return since this was announced i have mixed feelings. Why would destiny not forsee what Kurt would become as she bore him?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I was genuinely confused why Mystique chose to have a baby bump at the same time as Destiny, maybe I misunderstood, but if she didn't appear pregnant wouldn't the Count she was hitched to at the time been less suspicious of her infidelity with Azazel? I'll have to re-read the issue for that. At the end of the day though now Mystique is DadMom and Irene is Mom, I like the family aspect of it, and I like that Kurt seemed to be happy to finally learn his true lineage.
    Appearing pregnant helped Mystique string meal ticket hubby along a bit longer.
    And Sympathetic pregnancy takes on a whole new meaning when you're the father but also a shapeshifting woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  12. #87
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    So does this mean there could be other women who have been impregnated by Mystique?

    Are we entering Raven's deadbeat dad era?

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    There can only be one per ability has never actually been something stated by Hickman. He himself literally put two people on the omega list with omega telepathy listed as their ability. Omega is a classification that denotes mutants with powers beyond conceivable measurement. It does not actually create a there can only be one hierarchical ranking as a lot of people often claim it to mean. If it did, Hickman would never have put both Jean and Quentin on the list with the same power. By the very definition people are attributing to his list, only one of those two could have been the most powerful telepath and thus hold the omega telepath title. They’re both on the list because his definition of omega simply said their power can not be surpassed by non mutant means. Two mutants can exist in that indeterminate measureless stratosphere. Omegas are essentially mutants without ceiling…they just have to clear a certain floor that exists as any non omega’s ceiling.

    Otherwise NO omega’s place on that list would actually be guaranteed. Instead it would be a constantly revolving merry go round the second any new mutant was born that was more powerful than someone previously stated to be the omega of that ability.
    Ok, that's fine, but you still have to be better than anything or anyone else out there in that power to be Omega. And Meggan and that Arrako shapeshifter Havok83 mentioned would both eclipse her limitation(and that Arrako shapeshifter committed suicide, so it's down to Meggan).
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Ok, that's fine, but you still have to be better than anything or anyone else out there in that power to be Omega. And Meggan and that Arrako shapeshifter Havok83 mentioned would both eclipse her limitation(and that Arrako shapeshifter committed suicide, so it's down to Meggan).
    Okay that's fine but why reply to me if you're not going to read what I wrote. If you still have to be better than anything or anyone else out there in that power to be Omega, then again...how are Jean and Quentin both omega level telepaths.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    This issue could have been an email.

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