Wait....Wasn't Amanda Waller always evil? (Spoilers)

[Frontier]

Her original background story depicted her as an escapee of the housing projects of Chicago, while being illustrated as an obese, angry, Black woman with a bunch of kids. Sure, she is "self-made" in the end, but that origin story rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer her more recent incarnation, where she doesn't have THAT in her background. She worked her way up in the government ranks as a career bureaucrat. And as much as people disliked her New52 origin, I did like the added bonus that Waller was an ex-field agent for "Team Seven", along with Slade Wilson, Black Canary and a number meta- and non-meta-humans. JMO.

I feel like her family dynamic and losing said family helped humanize her a lot.

[marhawkman]

We need a live action CC Pounder as Waller.

She's old now, but... having future Waller talk to present Waller? ooohh.... CCH Pounder as future Waller would be great.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Her original background story depicted her as an escapee of the housing projects of Chicago, while being illustrated as an obese, angry, Black woman with a bunch of kids. Sure, she is "self-made" in the end, but that origin story rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer her more recent incarnation, where she doesn't have THAT in her background. She worked her way up in the government ranks as a career bureaucrat. And as much as people disliked her New52 origin, I did like the added bonus that Waller was an ex-field agent for "Team Seven", along with Slade Wilson, Black Canary and a number meta- and non-meta-humans. JMO.

That feels like an over simplification to make Waller fall into stereotype.

She was a part of a middle class family, who lost one child to violence and lost her husband who sought revenge. She focused her anger on her family and politics, until she proposed the Suicide Squad.

Her basic character, from the start, was that she wasn't a field operative like EVERY OTHER CHARACTER.

[dswynne]

That feels like an over simplification to make Waller fall into stereotype.

She was a part of a middle class family, who lost one child to violence and lost her husband who sought revenge. She focused her anger on her family and politics, until she proposed the Suicide Squad.

Her basic character, from the start, was that she wasn't a field operative like EVERY OTHER CHARACTER.

As opposed to being an adult welfare recipient, with ZERO governmental experience, who just happens to suggest the reconstitution of a clandestine government operation from WWII? I have no problem if Waller grew up in the projects, but Ostrander's background origin story for Waller, as it was written, strains credulity to me. But, that's just me.

[The Cool Thatguy]

As opposed to being an adult welfare recipient, with ZERO governmental experience, who just happens to suggest the reconstitution of a clandestine government operation from WWII? I have no problem if Waller grew up in the projects, but Ostrander's background origin story for Waller, as it was written, strains credulity to me. But, that's just me.

You use 'adult welfare recipient', as if she simply sat on her ass doing nothing all day.

I don't know if you've been following the news, but raising kids is damn expensive. In the same damn scene where it established she was on welfare, it also established that she worked herself to the bone to support her family, after her husband and child were murdered. She put her kids then herself through college, the degree that she earned helping her get into politics and eventually, the Suicide Squad.

[ducklord]

You use 'adult welfare recipient', as if she simply sat on her ass doing nothing all day.

I don't know if you've been following the news, but raising kids is damn expensive. In the same damn scene where it established she was on welfare, it also established that she worked herself to the bone to support her family, after her husband and child were murdered. She put her kids then herself through college, the degree that she earned helping her get into politics and eventually, the Suicide Squad.

What this guy said. Waller's origin story, although not without its cliched elements (I believe both her and Microwavabelle share the "husband killed by gang violence" origin, and I'm sure you could find others in the 80's), nevertheless had elements of originality. She was a grown-ass older woman who had picked herself off the ground to become a savvy bureaucrat. In a genre that was soon to be overrun by freakish wasp-waisted abominations, she was a solid mass of a human being who embodied her nickname. And despite her size, she was about as far from an Aunt Jemima/Black Mammy character as you could get - one could even argue that, most of the time, Waller's blackness didn't play into her character much at all (except for those few stories in which it pointedly did).

Turning her into another gorgeous super-spy was, not to put too fine a point on it, lamer than industrial-sized box of lame, sandblasting everything somewhat original about her away in one doofy decision (it's not as bad as Twilight Lobo, or Vic Sage running the Suicide Squad, but it's close). And trying to shoehorn that idea into a "oh, Waller used to be a bad-ass hot super-spy when she was younger, but now she's let herself go," retcon somehow feels even worse. 'Cause seriously, is The Wall someone who would "let herself go?"

Of course, even that mistake isn't nearly as bad as what's being done to Waller *these* days. Like I said before, she's gonna need a full Yellow Fear Bug treatment to get out from under this one.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Waller's depiction isn't helped by ping pong writers, going from one extreme to another.

It seems like everyone has forgotten that in the last Suicide Squad series, Waller f**ked off to go to the Crime Syndicate's world and take it over.

The why of it still has me baffled.

[Frontier]

Waller's depiction isn't helped by ping pong writers, going from one extreme to another.

It seems like everyone has forgotten that in the last Suicide Squad series, Waller f**ked off to go to the Crime Syndicate's world and take it over.

The why of it still has me baffled.

I think it was something like "this world needs" me .

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Waller has suffered from, IMO, subsequent writers who didn't (and don't) appreciate her moral greyness as a character, especially when it led her into direct confrontation with the more morally black-and-white hero characters like Superman and Batman -- and those confrontations didn't lead to her going directly to jail for daring to be on the other side of the argument with the Morally Pure and Steadfast Heroes.

[dswynne]

You use 'adult welfare recipient', as if she simply sat on her ass doing nothing all day.

I don't know if you've been following the news, but raising kids is damn expensive. In the same damn scene where it established she was on welfare, it also established that she worked herself to the bone to support her family, after her husband and child were murdered. She put her kids then herself through college, the degree that she earned helping her get into politics and eventually, the Suicide Squad.

Well, I will say that while I do understand where you are coming from, the fact that Ostrander crafted Waller's background in such a manner bothers me, and I will leave it at that. The fact of the matter is that there is NO WAY of someone with THAT background would get anywhere near the top echelons of power to create the Suicide Squad/Task Force X. Maybe, IRL, someone with Condoleezza Rice or Susan Rice's background, both of whom actually have the credentials to be given top secret credentials to warrant their presence on the National Security Council. But then again, this comic books, so we're allowed to indulge our fantasy simply because we happen to like certain comic book writers. Eh.

[Kaijudo]

Waller only counts when she's written by Ostrander or by somebody who understands Ostrander, which there obviously aren't many. She was never meant to be some sinister shadowy Machiavellian schemer. I get that a character can evolve over time, but when you get so far from the starting point and just see the surface-level stuff (i.e. she runs the Suicide Squad), you get to where we're at, where folks are trying to have her out-Max Lord Max Lord (another victim of this, though at least that's a little bit built into his overall character).

I'm trying to think of a good parallel to Waller and I can't draw an exact line, so I guess I'd say she's kind of a hybrid between the original Nick Fury and George Smiley. She's in the espionage game, she's surrounded by fantastical elements, but at the end of the day she's an ordinary person who's basically doing the pencil-pushing grunt work to keep the world safe.

[Frontier]

They're just basically writing her as a government Supervillain at this point and that's not the character.

[Rac7d*]

They're just basically writing her as a government Supervillain at this point and that's not the character.

At this point she kinda is. Character change over decades. Waller goal is still the same but at any cost and stepping on whomever.

[Frontier]

At this point she kinda is. Character change over decades. Waller goal is still the same but at any cost and stepping on whomever.

But not all change is good.

[Kaijudo]

At this point she kinda is. Character change over decades. Waller goal is still the same but at any cost and stepping on whomever.

The line between evolution and assassination is a fine one.