Do you think Disney era Star Wars has met your expectation?

[Marvel Wars]

It doesn't matter the era, the toys sell which means there was no damage to the brand

Well if a franchise is condemned to telling stories in the past of what's already out because what happens in the future doesn't interest enough people, I don't think that's very healthy for the franchise in the long term.

[Tofali]

being malcontent is synonymous with star wars fanbase so I don't think Lucasfilms are that much concerned bc the fanbase identify with the franchise too closely to ever abandon it.

[thwhtGuardian]

Well if a franchise is condemned to telling stories in the past of what's already out because what happens in the future doesn't interest enough people, I don't think that's very healthy for the franchise in the long term.

...it does interest people though.

I mean, I didn't care for the sequels but plenty did as they sold a boat load of tickets.

[godisawesome]

South Park parodied both sides of the argument, but still made some decent points. Both overreact, but in the mess, there are some points. On both sides. A female lead in the main films? Sweet. One that requires no training on, anything, let alone development? Uh, pass. Is it the end of the franchise? Not even remotely.

Disney + series though, have been the main positive force in mainstream media. Even though I wish a certain character to be brought back, even I admit that the series runners know what to do with the universe. They build upon characters and other minor story arcs, and do a great job in developing them without breaking anything.

This is actually something I think should be brought up for the more nuanced analysis of the franchise - Kathleen Kennedy as a producer pulled a lightning quick and hugely successful transition from “Plan A” to “Plan B” when it looks like most of Hollywood and much of LFL would have stuck with Plan A to potential danger.

There arguably *should* have been an unscheduled “dead period” in Star Wars development once Solo came out and bombed in TLJ’s wake; the spin-off idea had just slammed into cruel reality, the ST was having Abrams coming in to reluctantly finish it off after it got compromised before TLJ’s release, let alone afterwards... and yet before TROS premieres, Kennedy had shifted almost all of LFL’s resources to Disney + shows under Favreau and Filoni, which quickly turn things around.

I mean, there was that week or two before Solo where, ostensibly, the future of Star Wars was a Rian Johnson trilogy on one hand and another spin-off featuring Boba Fett. Remember that? And then they ostensibly tried to get D&D from Game of Thrones to make a movie or three, and they’ve still been trying to launch a movie and keep restarting it for different reasons...

But because Kennedy was sharp enough and quick enough to drop the Johnson Trilogy as a priority and replace Mangold’s Fett film with Favreau’s Mandalorian show, and then to give Filoni more power to resurrect The Clone Wars and scope out if he and Favreau can do more. And none of that was foreshadowed until after Solo’s release, implying she leapt into action after seeing that box office returns and after putting up with Plan A’s BTS drama for all but one, highly divisive movie.

If Kennedy sticks to Plan A, the franchise might experience the backlash of TLJ across the brand, and instead, a new sub franchise is launched instead to recover their credit and launch most of the current status quo.

[Jackalope89]

This is actually something I think should be brought up for the more nuanced analysis of the franchise - Kathleen Kennedy as a producer pulled a lightning quick and hugely successful transition from “Plan A” to “Plan B” when it looks like most of Hollywood and much of LFL would have stuck with Plan A to potential danger.

There arguably *should* have been an unscheduled “dead period” in Star Wars development once Solo came out and bombed in TLJ’s wake; the spin-off idea had just slammed into cruel reality, the ST was having Abrams coming in to reluctantly finish it off after it got compromised before TLJ’s release, let alone afterwards... and yet before TROS premieres, Kennedy had shifted almost all of LFL’s resources to Disney + shows under Favreau and Filoni, which quickly turn things around.

I mean, there was that week or two before Solo where, ostensibly, the future of Star Wars was a Rian Johnson trilogy on one hand and another spin-off featuring Boba Fett. Remember that? And then they ostensibly tried to get D&D from Game of Thrones to make a movie or three, and they’ve still been trying to launch a movie and keep restarting it for different reasons...

But because Kennedy was sharp enough and quick enough to drop the Johnson Trilogy as a priority and replace Mangold’s Fett film with Favreau’s Mandalorian show, and then to give Filoni more power to resurrect The Clone Wars and scope out if he and Favreau can do more. And none of that was foreshadowed until after Solo’s release, implying she leapt into action after seeing that box office returns and after putting up with Plan A’s BTS drama for all but one, highly divisive movie.

If Kennedy sticks to Plan A, the franchise might experience the backlash of TLJ across the brand, and instead, a new sub franchise is launched instead to recover their credit and launch most of the current status quo.

True. But you know, in the back of many fans' minds, is that the Rey trilogy fenced in a lot of those series. So, while yes, the Mandolorian and such were able to find footing and their own standing for the fans at large, there is still the point in the films that you can only go up to before having to acknowledge unpopular parts of the films.

Dragon Ball Super has a similar issue, though with a far less controversial ending. Everything in it is supposed to take place between the end of the Buu Arc, and the End of Z, when Goku flies off with Uub to train him. By the count of fans that have done the math, the manga at least, has gone past that technically, but not in story (yet). Star Wars, unlike Dragon Ball, is probably expected to keep a time frame steady.

[ChrisIII]

I'm not sure but I think it's possible anime/manga views canon a bit differently.

Just take a look at Gundam. Sure there's alternate universes which are marketed as such (Wing, Seed etc) but even the Universal Century stuff can get a bit complicated, as the original series alone has like three versions-the TV show, the compilation movies which change certain details such as mecha designs, the order of events or even one or two character fates; and the whole "Origin" continuity.

Even Zeta Gundam has an alternate telling with the movie compilation in which Camille doesn't go crazy and then into a coma.

Then there's Recognista in G and Turn A Gundam which say that all the Gundams happened in the same universe and it's some kind of historical loop or something.

....

Or several anime that adapt manga, but often change several of the details (The adaptations of Rumiko Takahashi's work for example)

[ChrisIII]

Any thoughts on how Disney has utilized the force ghosts of Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda?

In the old post-ROTJ EU they basically ascended to a higher plane right at the start with Heir to the Empire saying Luke needs to do the rest on his own, although they do appear in the Truce At Bakura, set almost immediately after ROTJ.

FORCE AWAKENS has Ewan give Rey some advice with the "steps" dialogue, and of course Anakin/Vader and Yoda show up in a more visual style in Ahsoka and Last Jedi, while also giving Rey encouragement at the end of ROS vocally. Anakin's ghost also tries to help warn his son about Exegol in the Shadow of the Sith novel I think.

The sequel trilogy also seems to imply that Palpatine impersonated Vader's force ghost at some point to fool Ben.

[godisawesome]

Any thoughts on how Disney has utilized the force ghosts of Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda?

In the old post-ROTJ EU they basically ascended to a higher plane right at the start with Heir to the Empire saying Luke needs to do the rest on his own, although they do appear in the Truce At Bakura, set almost immediately after ROTJ.

FORCE AWAKENS has Ewan give Rey some advice with the "steps" dialogue, and of course Anakin/Vader and Yoda show up in a more visual style in Ahsoka and Last Jedi, while also giving Rey encouragement at the end of ROS vocally. Anakin's ghost also tries to help warn his son about Exegol in the Shadow of the Sith novel I think.

The sequel trilogy also seems to imply that Palpatine impersonated Vader's force ghost at some point to fool Ben.

Live Action-wise, I think Anakin’s been used best by the Ahsoka show with his appearance in the World Between Worlds; the only issue with that scene and episode is how the back half of Ahsoka is fairly light on story compared to the front half, and how that sort of appears in Anakin/Vader’s appearance for Ahsoka (she doesn’t have much of an arc in the show, and the episode comes off more as background info and getting her to deal with Vader’s legacy.) Anakin was an active character, with an ethereal, spiritual portrayal that still didn’t hijack the story, and perfectly served Ahsoka’s story and that series.

Obi-Wan’s lack of use outside of his dialogue in TFA feels more like what I’d expect in general - not enough to be a crutch, and generally an optional tool that doesn’t have to be used much at all. And I’d say the same thing applies to Qui-Gon’s appearance. It’s fun, and can make things very sweet, but you don’t need them as much as some might think (see: the PT’s lack of use compared to the OT’s abundant use.)

Yoda in TLJ... that feels to me like a perfect example of how not to use a Force Ghost, but strictly from a narrative standpoint, and on a technical level is perfect, with the issue being more how bad the story context is. He’s a tool to try and sell an out-of-character, story-hijacking version of Luke on a shallow set of life lessons the film hasn’t earned with counterintuitive and juvenile comments that often hypocritically contradict the film. If he were used more for Rey, or if Luke was ,ore in character, or if the dialogue had more substance to it, it’d be great. Unfortunately, it’s mostly a fun bit of fan service unfortunately used to try and “bribe” the audience into accepting trash.

I think the Force Ghosts are better used for either only spiritual lessons they can teach, or brief, uncomplicated cameos. Use them in a bad story in a bad way, and their spiritual nature can make it worse.

[ChrisIII]

One thing that happens that seems a bit weird is that they're able to affect the physical world/use the force on it-Yoda's lightning (Although it was 'sourced' from the cloud overhead rather than being the usual Sith stuff), Luke lifting the X-wing for example.

Granted, ROTJ had Obi-Wan interact physically by pushing aside vines and sitting on a tree.....although nothing really using the force, whereas in ESB he seemed to be fairly static and was a disembodied voice in ANH

.

[godisawesome]

One thing that happens that seems a bit weird is that they're able to affect the physical world/use the force on it-Yoda's lightning (Although it was 'sourced' from the cloud overhead rather than being the usual Sith stuff), Luke lifting the X-wing for example.

Granted, ROTJ had Obi-Wan interact physically by pushing aside vines and sitting on a tree.....although nothing really using the force, whereas in ESB he seemed to be fairly static and was a disembodied voice in ANH

.

Again, I personally feel like that's an okay thing to do if you use it well, though I'd definitely agree that its tricky when to know that.

Filoni implies that Force Ghost Anakin and the Force just flat out pulled Ahsoka into the World Between Worlds so she can't die from her duel, and I think that worked out because of how it sort of pulled her into a spirit world rather than attacking Baylan.

Yoda's lightning strike is more just the film getting cute with it heavy handed, hypocritical message, while Luke raising the X-Wing is a bit of fanservice intermixed with a middle finger to TLJ (...that I think TLJ deserved), with both really just being ostentatious without directly impacting the story in a way that the main character couldn't.

That's probably the irony, if anything - if the Force Ghost is going to interact with reality, than its probably better to bite the bullet and have them do so in a plot important event rather than as a bit of fan service for a message.

The "...why don't they just save the day?" problem still exists in both scenarios, but having it be an actually impactful moment plays it off more an actual "miracle" rather than the writer emphasizing a point that's not plot related. I think audiences can roll with "WILL help save the day a bit, just not more than the main characters" better than "COULD help save the day, but Prime Directive of the afterlife forbids it while they can still totally just show off when they want to anyways" or some ****

[BeastieRunner]

I thought Yoda's ghost in TLJ was perfect but clearly it appears to depend on if you liked the film or not.

I'd be down with some rules like the more they appear and/or what they do affects if they can show up again soon and/or with power

I.e. Yoda nukes the tree means he can't be more than a voice for X years till he gets enough power to show again and he can't really do anything until he saves up more reserves.

Or Anakin's big old thing with Asoka means he's unable to do anything again for even longer hence why Palpatine was able to mimick his ghost without interfence.

Or Luke goes space Jesus as a ghost but it fully drains him and he's gone forever.

Stuff like that. It should have a cost the more you do. With potential permanent consequences.

[ChrisIII]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Qui-Gon was the guy who 'discovered' the technique but part of the whole reason Lucas included a partial explanation tacked on to ROTS is because he *didn't* vanish.

If anything I'd think it'd be the other way around.