No-Prize: 616-Nightcrawler still inherited his Y-Chromosome from 616-Azazel

[king of hybrids]

Moving Claremont just another step closer to dominion status

If that was true then Nightmare would be the father.

[Hulkout42]

Moving Claremont just another step closer to dominion status

...it's sad that i am at a point in my life were i can't decide if that is good or bad anymore.

[OG Storm]

Dr. Nemesis is prone to hyperbole. Mystique isn't anywhere near being omega anything. Not when you have folks like husk, warlock there. They can literally turn themselves into energy. Mystique will never grow to two hundred feet tall made out ionic energy with 3 heads or turn into a snowflake or an amoeba. Heck Rogue is a better metamorph than she is being able to duplicate and replicate the memories, genetic details, personality and resemblances of the people she touches. This was a welcome story finally resolving Kurt's parentage but I think we need to actually pay attention to actual omega level metamorphs like Tarn.

[EldonMaguan]

Reminder that Nightcrawler is indeed still Azazel’s biological offspring
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[yellow cyclone]

just happens to look like azazel but blue

just happens to have a tail like azazel

just happens to TELEPORT THROUGH BRIMSTONE from azazel's dimension

just happens to have demon lord father as juxtaposition to his catholic priest background

but noooooo mystique is the father b/c she's now a "gene shifter" even though that means she could also duplicate powers (which for some reason she doesn't) and could actually sire the daughter she wanted (which for some reason she doesn't)

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i like spurrier but this needless retcon was a forced yet again. it doesn't serve anything but to....try and make selfish, mutant assassin mystique sympathetic? which she'll never have because she's a self-serving assassin lmao.

"oh noooo the sham marriage she chose to get into for money/power purposes where she cheated on her husband was actually a double affair we she pretended to have her lover's kid was actually a false pregnancy she carried because we can't invalidate pages/years of pregnant mystique. this also makes destiny look even more like a manipulative piece of trash to her so-called true love mystique because...it was written in the stars or some bs. oh nooooo"

lmfaoooo. kurt can't just be an abandoned child of mystique who actually has a sympathetic moment where she did it to protect him, who despite this grows up to be a good person. no it had to ALL BE PREDETERMINED DESTINY. this is right up there with deadly genesis or spider-totem bs. just needlessly convoluting and ruining what makes that lightning in bottle things special.

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[Hakka84]

Couldn't this whole thing be solved by just making that
1) Irene has the vision that they need a child of Azazel.
2) Raven will have it.
3) They will raise him together, so Irene will be the other mommy. / alternatively, Raven will act as father figure, since at the time there's no lesbian marriage, they will marry as man and woman and Kurt their child.
4) Things happen and they cannot raise him together as they planned.

Is the biological relationship that much important that you need to do a convoluted retcon that breaks the sense of belief?

(not against the "Raven can a biological father", at all. I actually like this idea. But I agree that, at this point, it would've made more sense for this to be applied to Rogue).

[Devaishwarya]

Sure...it could have been much simpler (and perhaps if Spurrier wasn't writing it) but they wouldn't be able to sell it as a stand alone extra-sized issue. Plus they know us Gays like all that messy drama...the messier and more dramatic, the better.

[Gray Lensman]

When the “father” simply has NO Y-CHROMOSOMES of his own to contribute to the composition of the offspring , naturally siring an actual son is just NOT possible at all

Marvel has shapeshifters capable of fooling genetic scans, so maybe when Mystique mimics a male character, she temporarily has a Y chromosome. But the most important part of this for me is that it undoes that idiotic "Nightcrawler looks like a demon so he MUST be the son of Satan" retcon from Austen, which was not only incredibly stupid, it flew in the face of who the character was supposed to be. Good riddance to that plotline, and my only regret is that it wasn't done immediately after Austen left.

[Devaishwarya]

Marvel has shapeshifters capable of fooling genetic scans, so maybe when Mystique mimics a male character, she temporarily has a Y chromosome. But the most important part of this for me is that it undoes that idiotic "Nightcrawler looks like a demon so he MUST be the son of Satan" retcon from Austen, which was not only incredibly stupid, it flew in the face of who the character was supposed to be. Good riddance to that plotline, and my only regret is that it wasn't done immediately after Austen left.

That was my understanding of the Data page, info. That would have to be the case if she supplied/created viable sperm to fertilise Irene's egg.

[D.Z]

I guess you could use telegony.

[From The Shadows]

If that was true then Nightmare would be the father.

That was always an awful idea to me. We always talk about we rather still have that he is a mutant that just happens to look like a real demon... well, Nightmare is a real demon. If forced to choose I'd go with Azazel. Because at least Austen intended him to look like a demon but is a mutant too.

[EldonMaguan]

Marvel has shapeshifters capable of fooling genetic scans, so maybe when Mystique mimics a male character, she temporarily has a Y chromosome. But the most important part of this for me is that it undoes that idiotic "Nightcrawler looks like a demon so he MUST be the son of Satan" retcon from Austen, which was not only incredibly stupid, it flew in the face of who the character was supposed to be. Good riddance to that plotline, and my only regret is that it wasn't done immediately after Austen left.

WATCHU TALKIN ABOUT WILLIS?! Actually , Kurt IS STILL the biological son of Hell-Lord-class daemon* AND** X-gene mutant Azazel , that’s how he’s able to counter/neutralize him to begin with in the first place! This retcon DOESN’T DELETE that at all , otherwise the Blood Magick Spell magically trapping Azazel on Earth wouldn’t work at all , because its based entirely on BLOODTIES i.e biological familial relationship . In fact , all this retcon does is make Kurt now have 2 (or even 3) BIO-DADDIES (Azazel, Christian Wagner, Raven-Rule63-form KEK) when before he just had the one !

And we’ll know for sure if Mystique CAN indeed duplicate the Y-chromosome only when Uncanny Spider-Man 5 comes out

* who was either mistaken for Satan or posed as Satan or both , and who may have originated/influenced Satan’s most popular Western image (Red and Pointy) , because apparently Mephisto and Marduk Kurious (the other 2 HLCD’s who most resembles the said most classic Western image of the Devil , both canonically didn’t originally look like such [MK was literally the Marvel-616 omniversal counterpart to Vertigo’s Lucifer and MP was reptilian/draconic-looking BEFORE the emergence of humanity I.E. before Azazel was born , which as per The Draco was around 13000 BC)
**just like Sebastian Shaw in Sins of Sinister

And I just don’t know why Azazel haters disingenuously keep on omitting the canon fact that Azazel is indeed an X-gene mutant who merely ASCENDED*** to (dark) godhood**** and became a Hell-Lord demon

*** its an established canon in 616-Marvel that non-gods CAN and DO become gods through the power of belief of worship , most prominently the Skrull Divine Couple , who were originally , the last surviving Skrull Eternal and the queen of the Skrull Deviants , BEFORE they became the first Skrull gods

**** according to Mephisto himself in Gillen’s run on Journey into Mystery , there is NO Real difference between gods and demons , theyre the same species (a dark god is a demon , a light demon is a god) except that demons don’t have any sense of moral responsibility at all whatsoever

[Kurolegacy]

just happens to look like azazel but blue

just happens to have a tail like azazel

just happens to TELEPORT THROUGH BRIMSTONE from azazel's dimension

just happens to have demon lord father as juxtaposition to his catholic priest background

but noooooo mystique is the father b/c she's now a "gene shifter" even though that means she could also duplicate powers (which for some reason she doesn't) and could actually sire the daughter she wanted (which for some reason she doesn't)

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i like spurrier but this needless retcon was a forced yet again. it doesn't serve anything but to....try and make selfish, mutant assassin mystique sympathetic? which she'll never have because she's a self-serving assassin lmao.

"oh noooo the sham marriage she chose to get into for money/power purposes where she cheated on her husband was actually a double affair we she pretended to have her lover's kid was actually a false pregnancy she carried because we can't invalidate pages/years of pregnant mystique. this also makes destiny look even more like a manipulative piece of trash to her so-called true love mystique because...it was written in the stars or some bs. oh nooooo"

lmfaoooo. kurt can't just be an abandoned child of mystique who actually has a sympathetic moment where she did it to protect him, who despite this grows up to be a good person. no it had to ALL BE PREDETERMINED DESTINY. this is right up there with deadly genesis or spider-totem bs. just needlessly convoluting and ruining what makes that lightning in bottle things special.

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Yea not gonna lie, Destiny definitely ruins the whole thing by changing the entire scenario from a situation where Mystique thought she had love only to be on the receiving end of being used, a rare sympathetic moment for her to some 4D chess move. It’s honestly kinda akin to how thanks to the Moira X retcon the nature of Legion and Proteus’ existence is now some planned out event for their usefulness rather than events of their parents’ lives beyond their control. It honestly makes things feel more cold and tactical. Plus this whole thing of trying to sanitize Mystique and Destiny’s image when they’re both unapologetically terrible people just feels weird to me.

[yellow cyclone]

totally agree

there can be no redemption for either of them. they are simply bad people. and that's ok.

krakoa's entire current status quo is also due to them being schemers and mystique herself being selfish (inferno)

also i refuse to believe this moira trainwreck was hickman's original intentions, everything post-inferno is insane and out of character

[Kurolegacy]

totally agree

there can be no redemption for either of them. they are simply bad people. and that's ok.

krakoa's entire current status quo is also due to them being schemers and mystique herself being selfish (inferno)

also i refuse to believe this moira trainwreck was hickman's original intentions, everything post-inferno is insane and out of character

Yea, it honestly says a lot when Krakoa proved to allow numerous villainous mutants to become better people or at very least work towards the whole rather than just themselves and meanwhile Mystique and Destiny just remained the exact same the entire way through.