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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Android 17 View Post
    I still can’t believe that Indiana Jones sequel flopped so hard. People dump on The Marvels, but I think that was Disney’s biggest disappointment of the year.
    No way. Last Indy movie was out in 2008 and even then the general audience wasn't asking for another. Lots of respect to Harrison Ford but no one wants to see a geriatric action star. The Marvels is clearly the biggest disappointment with setting dubious records. Box office was much worse with less competition.

  2. #62
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    No way. Last Indy movie was out in 2008 and even then the general audience wasn't asking for another. Lots of respect to Harrison Ford but no one wants to see a geriatric action star. The Marvels is clearly the biggest disappointment with setting dubious records. Box office was much worse with less competition.
    I don't think Ford is unlikable, just that they didn't write old Indy well. The movie's own quality isn't good, Helena isn't interesting.

    The rumor of Indy died and new replacement also damaged the movie's presale.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zauriel View Post
    That is true. I agree. Disney spent too much money on John Carter and Lone Ranger, both films have flopped quite disastrously.
    Yet folks don't want to talk about those movies. Only the ones with POC and LGBTQA leads that are somehow the issue. Disney has had tons of flops yet everyone wants to focus on the ones that they hate the fact they exist.


    Of course Disney should focus more on quality vs quantity but if we're talking specific damage control, they should also really consider rethinking these projects.
    It's called making stuff that you own FULL control over versus paying others for their ideas.

    I don't get live action version of animated movies-do we REALLY need those?

    There are other versions of Snow White out there like The Unnatural Mother and the Girl with a Star on Her Forehead or The Death of the Seven Dwarves. Of course Death of 7 Dwarves might need to be cleaned up for kids as Snow White gets accused of being the lover to all 7 dwarves.


    Even that isn't realistic for a tent pole film. Radio, TV and even Internet spots/ads cost. Flying the stars all over the world to promote the film also costs.
    I think the point is doing that marketing and now spending $100 million. If Strange World spent that much-I would be the FIRST to ask who stole the money?

    Strange World, Haunted Mansion, Napoleon, Spiderverse (sort of), TMNT and Blue Beetle. I saw no radio ads, tv ads, movie posters (NOT at theaters) or billboards for those movies.


    It took seeing the TOYS for TMNT for folks to suddenly realize there were movie coming out.

    Blue Beetle. Nobody at my school knew that movie existed until they saw the popcorn tin and Blue Beetle popcorn bug I bought to school.

    So the city that is 4th largest metropolitan area saw little or no promotion of those films?

    I know TMNT got some promotion because I OWN the promo shirt and stuff that was given out in certain theaters. Same with Spiderverse and Haunted Mansion-all AFTER they came out.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Exactly.

    Disney has dumped ALL their Star Wars stuff on Disney+ for 4 straight years. It's going to be very difficult to get people back into theaters to see them when the audience has been conditioned to wait for D+.

    They did the same with their animation and they're now struggling in theaters.
    I think they just turned a good chunk of their audience completely off from Star Wars, I mean the first seasons of Mando were good, but the way they screwed up the Boba Fett and Kenobi shows (both string much more ionic characters of the franchise) is just mind boggling.

    I mean has anyone in the fandom any confidence in Lukas Films ability to produce good Star Wars content?

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    No way. Last Indy movie was out in 2008 and even then the general audience wasn't asking for another. Lots of respect to Harrison Ford but no one wants to see a geriatric action star. The Marvels is clearly the biggest disappointment with setting dubious records. Box office was much worse with less competition.
    His reprisal of Han Solo went over pretty well in TFA I think.

    It's a bit odd, seems his performance as Han had a lot more energy and consistency to it than his two reprisals of Indiana Jones, and Harrison has always said he's preferred Indy to Han.

    Maybe it's because it was (apart from the cameo in ROS) his last performance of the character?

    Although Indy's always generally been grumpier than Han, even in the older films (although some think that "Last Crusade" toned down the character from the more mercenary Indy of ROTA and TOD with his "It belongs in a museum!" attitude that we also see in the last two films).
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  6. #66
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    His reprisal of Han Solo went over pretty well in TFA I think.

    It's a bit odd, seems his performance as Han had a lot more energy and consistency to it than his two reprisals of Indiana Jones, and Harrison has always said he's preferred Indy to Han.

    Maybe it's because it was (apart from the cameo in ROS) his last performance of the character?

    Although Indy's always generally been grumpier than Han, even in the older films (although some think that "Last Crusade" toned down the character from the more mercenary Indy of ROTA and TOD with his "It belongs in a museum!" attitude that we also see in the last two films).
    Which means the writers didn't write Indy well, especially in 5.

  7. #67

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    I predict that any minority led projects will continue to get the axe, and Bob Iger (and Ike Perlmutter) are privately pleased.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    Which means the writers didn't write Indy well, especially in 5.
    I'm not sure Indy was written that consistently across even the original trilogy in a few ways. He's somewhat more of a cartoon character in TOD. Many fans try to harmonize this by saying it was Indy growing into RAIDERS Indy during the course of the film, but that wasn't the intention of it being a prequel (It was assumed I think that any sequel would feature Marion, so it was set before RAIDERS since they couldn't get Karen Allen-it's possible because of STARMAN-so they decided on a new Indy girl who was the opposite early in production and explaining it as just taking place before.)

    The more scholarly do-gooder stuff mainly comes I think with LAST CRUSADE. In the Cairo bar in RAIDERS for example Belloq pretty much says they're the same in a few ways.

    I think Kathleen Kennedy of all people would get Indy...she pretty much got her career started working with her husband and Spielberg on the original films. She's even one of the dancing girls in TOD.
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  9. #69
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    Bob Iger blaming Disney's failures on "woke" creators just justified the existence of every anti-SJW youtuber, absolute scumbag. Wish looking like a direct to DVD film had nothing to do with it being woke. Nor was "wokeness" the reason why The Marvels was a sequel to three Disney+ shows. "Daddy" Zlaslav is a scumbag, but he inherited an ailing company and had to make tough calls.

    Disney is cooked, at least until the end of the decade, the company has enough cultural staying power that it won't ever disappear though. Mufasa and the Snow White "live action" remakes are gonna disappoint/flop. Star Wars is literally dead. Disney animation will be making Frozen sequels until the end of time. For the MCU, they are literally reshooting an entire film (Cap 4)...its ogre for them.

    You can't own a monopoly on cultural products. Trends fade, anyone can create new IPs, companies can't maintain a creative team forever (MCU being a good example of this).
    Last edited by Pinsir; 12-03-2023 at 12:54 PM.
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  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Disney needs to recall the words of Spielberg, who said of the $20 million Raiders Of The Lost Ark that if he'd had more money, he'd have made a much more pretentious movie. Meaning that instead of just spending money, he'd had to get creative with what money he did have, and make it count. Take a look at what seems to be the best reviewed movie of the year, weirdly "Godzilla Minus One", with a reported budget of just $15 million. Now I have no idea how that's even possible, but it was so reported. Regardless, it seems likely to be far below $100 million.

    More money doesn't necessarily equal a better movie, and in many cases, can mean the opposite. Disney's reason for those budgets, (that they basically start a movie without a clue as to where they want it to go, which also leads to those FX problems as ILM and their contractors need to constantly revise their FX to match constantly changing scripts, with the movies often being written as they go), lends nothing to any quality that I have been able to detect.
    I think one of the sequences they cut from RAIDERS (Probably early in production) was a mine cart chase that presumably would've happened at the end after the Ark opening, with Indy trying to smuggle the Ark out of the base dealing with the base personnel and soldiers who weren't zapped or melted at the opening. Instead, the movie kind of cools down for about twenty minutes with Indy mending his wounds, Marion and then Indy being captured, until the Ark is open, and how Indy and Marion got off the island isn't exactly brought up (although presumabely they just made their way back to the sub or base and radio'd for help).

    Instead, the chase got moved to the next movie's finale.
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  11. #71
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Bob Iger blaming Disney's failures on "woke" creators just justified the existence of every anti-SJW youtuber, absolute scumbag. Wish looking like a direct to DVD film had nothing to do with it being woke. Nor was "wokeness" the reason why The Marvels was a sequel to three Disney+ shows. "Daddy" Zlaslav is a scumbag, but he inherited an ailing company and had to make tough calls.

    Disney is cooked, at least until the end of the decade, the company has enough cultural staying power that it won't ever disappear though. Mufasa and the Snow White "live action" remakes are gonna disappoint/flop. Star Wars is literally dead. Disney animation will be making Frozen sequels until the end of time. For the MCU, they are literally reshooting an entire film (Cap 4)...its ogre for them.

    You can't own a monopoly on cultural products. Trends fade, anyone can create new IPs, companies can't maintain a creative team forever (MCU being a good example of this).
    Some changes were unnecessary, such as making the queen good instead of being evil couple, and remove the romance. I don't think it's woke, but some agenda did affect the plot a little bit.

    A big problem with Wish is that most of the recent Disney Princess have the same adorkable personality, it doesn't work on everyone.

    As for the Marvels, it didn't get the target audience right.

    Star Wars was mostly due to without misdirection.

    Live Action princess was also money grab and they didn't even want to stay faithful to their target audience.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking; 12-03-2023 at 01:19 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think one of the sequences they cut from RAIDERS (Probably early in production) was a mine cart chase that presumably would've happened at the end after the Ark opening, with Indy trying to smuggle the Ark out of the base dealing with the base personnel and soldiers who weren't zapped or melted at the opening. Instead, the movie kind of cools down for about twenty minutes with Indy mending his wounds, Marion and then Indy being captured, until the Ark is open, and how Indy and Marion got off the island isn't exactly brought up (although presumabely they just made their way back to the sub or base and radio'd for help).

    Instead, the chase got moved to the next movie's finale.
    I have heard that as well. It was one of those legendary productions.

  13. #73
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    I think SW failed mostly due to they lack of a clear direction, the directors were slapping each other's face. Also the world setting was super awful, they just want to copy paste rebel VS empire.

  14. #74
    Mighty Member Zauriel's Avatar
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    Wish managed to pull a decent second weekend gross. It 's made nearly $42 million domestic in 12 days. Wish might have legs.

    Can't say the same for The Marvels. Being a flop is now a given. $197 million worldwide? This film needs to earn at least $650 million to break even, considering its huge inflated budget.

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    I think SW failed mostly due to they lack of a clear direction, the directors were slapping each other's face. Also the world setting was super awful, they just want to copy paste rebel VS empire.
    I think the Force Awakens, Rogue One and Last Jedi were fine. Reviews and box office were decent, although there were some issues, including the over-reliance on Death Star rehashes.

    The Han Solo prequel had bad timing. It was the fourth Star Wars film in four years so it wasn't special. There was behind the scenes chaos. And as far as the audience knew, the character's final fate was that he would be murdered by his only son, which is a bummer.

    The Rise of Skywalker was a catastrophe, with various decisions that seemed to be made to piss off anyone who liked the Last Jedi (Rose had about six lines, Luke admit he was wrong, etc.) as well as behind the scenes problems (it was supposed to be the Carrie Fisher film; the original director was fired; they never changed the schedule.)

    There are ways to improve the reputation of the series going forward, but a satisfying conclusion would have been cheaper.
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