Wonder Woman Earth One Vol.1-3 Discussion

[Primal Slayer]

With Grant Morrison releasing some annotations regarding his Earth One novels - thought it'd be good to reminisce about 1-3 and what he's stated below
1. https://grantmorrison.substack.com/p...ne-annotations
2. https://grantmorrison.substack.com/p...t_id=139424871

Hippolyta uses the phrase ‘Man’s World’ to describe everywhere that’s not her Amazonia. Some critics have questioned the phrase on the basis that half of the population of our world, which is what she’s referring to, is comprised of women. As a result, it’s been replaced by ‘Patriarch’s World’ in some more recent Wonder Woman stories but once more, we preferred Marston’s original designation with its recognition that ‘Man’s World’, our world, has been set up and established largely for the benefit of one half of the population.

‘Man’s World’ is also more contemptuous, and seemed like a phrase our man-hating version of Hippolyta would use to dismiss the rest of the world!

Think about this. Hippolyta has been through hell. Her PTSD and that of her sisters who suffered alongside her has been encoded in their culture. They deal with it in their own distinctive ways, but it haunts them. We’re seeing the eternal Queen face her worst nightmare as time crashes into her idyll. Can we blame her for reacting defensively, then aggressively, blindly? Her imagined endless reign now faces the moment she’s feared, her starlit invented world has been interrupted, her immortal afternoon ruined…

I saw Hippolyta as someone bound in her turn by duty, responsibility, and an accountability she can’t confront. She’s never really got over her aversion to men and doomscrolling on the Magic Sphere has scarcely mellowed her opinions. She made plans to fight a final war against men, even made the weapon and the weapons… but she lost the heart for conflict long, long ago.

And from there flow all her troubles…

The Amazons’ isolationism, their elitism, their rejection of action - all stem from Hippolyta’s desperate desire to protect her daughter from the Monster in Man. That much is true. But there are further layers of deeper, more revealing truth to come.

So in this Volume we see Hippolyta at her worst – imperious, over-protective, anxious and defensive. To judge her too harshly for that is to misunderstand the Queen.

I asked Yanick to draw Steve Trevor so that his posture, framed by billowing parachute silks, resembled Botticelli’s famous Venus Rising From the Waves. His collapse is designed to echo a detumescing erection.

The traditionally blonde and blue-eyed Steve Trevor functioned as Wonder Woman’s inciting incident in the original story. A USAF pilot, crashed on Paradise Island during World War 2, Steve is saved by Wonder Woman and the Amazons. When she learns of the War beyond the shores of Paradise, she decides to join the fight.

As a character, Trevor was designed to play the Lois Lane role in the original stories. Lois Lane, however, was a unique creation whereas Trevor was a generic action hero type created as a male foil for the lead character.

Steve is often rescued by Wonder Woman, and we are assured she finds him attractive although he’s rarely convincing. At his best, Trevor can be played a kind of Han Solo, Indiana Jones figure. A swaggering, male adventurer, the equal of the world’s most Wondrous Woman. In practice, it’s clear Marston’s interest in Steve was limited and the character’s lack of charisma seemed baked in.

(The only time I’ve ever believed in the Wonder Woman/Steve Trevor romance was with Gal Gadot and Chris Pine in Wonder Woman)

So, sticking to the formula, Steve’s Trevor’s role in the story is essentially feminine (these divisions into what is feminine, or masculine are not necessarily my own but reflect the binary world in which the Amazons operate. I trust most people know what I’m talking about…) – he gets in trouble and motivates the lead character. He takes a back seat in stories while helping to move the plot along and set things up for the lead etc.

Notable also was our decision to make Earth One Steve Trevor a black air force pilot, unlike his Aryan counterparts in the canonical DC universe. The intent again was to generate some interesting friction with ideas Marston and his Amazons simply take for granted – as seen in the later ‘dog collar’ scene and again in Steve’s speech to the Amazons at the trial, where he explains why he’s decided to take their side.

Steve’s dramatic arc continues through the background of the entire trilogy and tells its own distinct story.

We never play him as Wonder Woman’s ‘boyfriend’. He himself considers this immortal Princess ‘out of my league’, and she has no context for romance with a mortal man. They appear to be good friends.

The subtle feminizing of this version of Steve Trevor can be regarded as ‘problematic’ or ‘progressive’ depending on how you feel that day…

We almost showed Steve’s ordinary human fiancee in Volume 2 but preferred to leave his sexuality undisclosed. He’s Diana’s tough, dependable pal and that’s all he needs to be.

Basically, Steve Trevor is Ken!

[SiegePerilous02]

I do continue to find the enthusiasm for the ideas very interesting, even if very little of it gelled into a coherent whole in the final product. These Amazons are not the ones I would prefer beyond the visuals of their buildings, fashions and tech, but the thought process of having them act this way as an extension of them having full agency for their decision to isolate themselves makes some sense. I was reminded of Jeanette criticizing the Amazons for ignoring the plight of other women over the centuries, and how "the Amazons has no choice due to Doom's Doorway" can be viewed as a bit of a copout. The Amazons want to hide from the outside world, and they have guilt for leaving other women behind as a consequence for that decision.

Also, Hippolyta "doomscrolling" on the Magic Sphere made me laugh.

[Gaius]

I’ll admit I’ve always struggled with the idea that Diana began life as a clay statue of a child given life. It made her feel like a golem, a Pinocchio, rather than a living character. I overlooked the ‘given life’ bit to focus on the pottery aspect.

My first impulse, then, was to ditch the clay origin. Here, recalling this story’s origins in a film pitch, I wanted Hollywood style inner conflict where it’s revealed that Diana is in some sense the daughter of the hated Hercules…

Somewhere in the middle of writing Volume 1, I realised I preferred the feminist myth of parthenogenetic female reproduction where Hippolyta models an ideal daughter in clay, which is then animated by the gods. It’s feminist Adam and Eve! Wonder Woman should be no man’s daughter!

I had to reconcile these impulses in this new iteration. The truth is revealed that Hippolyta combined her eggs with the seed of Hercules in her genetic weaving laboratory, sculpting Diana into life on a science fiction ‘potter’s wheel’.

Man, do hear some writers explain you'd think the clay origin is something that requires a PHD in rocket science and another in neuroscience to properly understand.

"Keep it simple, stupid".

[ducklord]

Man, do hear some writers explain you'd think the clay origin is something that requires a PHD in rocket science and another in neuroscience to properly understand.

"Keep it simple, stupid".

While I generally adore most of Morrison's work, I can't help but indulge in a mordant chuckle over the notion of them *ever* keeping things simple.

With precious few exceptions*, "simple" is just not a weapon in their arsenal.

*The opening of All-Star Superman comes to mind.

[Primal Slayer]

We were eager to steer clear of retro-Greek culture portrayals of the Amazons. We took our cue from Harry Peter’s combination of Greek architecture and Astounding Stories sci-fi Deco.

From that base, we designed Amazon cultural artefacts to reflect an aesthetic that has tried its best to reject phallic symbolism, instead basing the architecture and design on flowing fern-like natural forms, (warping Deco into Nouveau) domes, shells, and vulvic shapes (we were relentlessly mocked for the vaginal stylings of Wonder Woman’s Invisible Jet but it was simply more fun to come up with a new and consistent aesthetic than to copy designs we’d seen before).

The rainbow runway that the Invisible Plane uses to guide its landing was a lovely visual detail from the original stories we were keen to reintroduce. We also kept Marston’s old-timey names for Amazon tech like the ‘Robot Plane’, Mala’s ‘Swan Plane’, ‘Mental Radio’ and ‘Magic Sphere’ because they felt more like the cranky nomenclature of a divergent scientific culture. The skycycles were our own creation.

The tattooed woman with the red ponytail, leader of the ‘Spartiate’ is ARTEMIS. Artemis was created in 1994 by William Messner-Loebs and Mike Deodato and briefly replaced Diana as Wonder Woman, in the monthly comic. She was introduced as a representative of the Bana-Mighdall, an offshoot Middle Eastern tribe of Amazons (although the name sounds Celtic, oddly enough). Here, we’ve condensed various concepts into the idea of New Sparta.

The Wonder Women of New Sparta are the wild girl punks of Amazon culture. Among them we see the familiar red and gold spangled outfit of Wonder Girl, Donna Troy, here known Troia (one of her many variant identities). Donna Troy is a character with a famously convoluted and relentlessly rewritten history, so in Volume 3 we address that by providing a very simple and logical origin story for her Earth One counterpart…

[bardkeep]

I do continue to find the enthusiasm for the ideas very interesting, even if very little of it gelled into a coherent whole in the final product. These Amazons are not the ones I would prefer beyond the visuals of their buildings, fashions and tech, but the thought process of having them act this way as an extension of them having full agency for their decision to isolate themselves makes some sense. I was reminded of Jeanette criticizing the Amazons for ignoring the plight of other women over the centuries, and how "the Amazons has no choice due to Doom's Doorway" can be viewed as a bit of a copout. The Amazons want to hide from the outside world, and they have guilt for leaving other women behind as a consequence for that decision.

Also, Hippolyta "doomscrolling" on the Magic Sphere made me laugh.

Yeah, I'm enjoying the annotations a lot more than I enjoyed the actual story. And I find myself agreeing with a lot of Morrison's takes on the character even as a Perez devotee.

I understand where they were going with the Amazons, though it's not really a novel approach and I'm not a fan of the general tendency to associate trauma, fear, and guilt with hostility and judgment against others who've been oppressed. But I think it becomes more of an issue in volume 3, when they decide they want to play Marston's utopia straight after they'd already spent 2 issues deconstructing it. Also the decision to put Nubia in a role that's only ever been occupied by Philippus because they "like Nubia more" is...not great.

In general it seems like there were a lot of cases where they ran idea and changed their mind after already making headway, but rather than fully committing to the new idea and backtracking they'd make "compromises" with themselves that didn't actually work. Another example: Sure, they decided they liked the clay origin more, but the "in-between" approach still cut out the essential queer/feminist themes because Diana still gets her power from a man's seed.

(Related: It's wild that Morrison, who's supposedly all about weirdness and esotericism, at any point had a hard time wrapping their mind around literally the most common creation myth in the world. Seems like they got so bogged down in the sci-fi elements that they ignored the pure fantasy, "everything goes" mindset that actually made the Golden Age stories so interesting.)

Going back to what you said in the other thread, I feel like having a Phil Jimenez type involved and a Karen Berger or Andrea Shea editing rather than a known sexual predator would've made a big difference.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah, I'm enjoying the annotations a lot more than I enjoyed the actual story. And I find myself agreeing with a lot of Morrison's takes on the character even as a Perez devotee.

Morrison has said a lot of things about the WW franchise that are on point and I agree with, but they couldn't deliver in the actual execution and added some other baffling ideas.

I understand where they were going with the Amazons, though it's not really a novel approach and I'm not a fan of the general tendency to associate trauma, fear, and guilt with hostility and judgment against others who've been oppressed. But I think it becomes more of an issue in volume 3, when they decide they want to play Marston's utopia straight after they'd already spent 2 issues deconstructing it. Also the decision to put Nubia in a role that's only ever been occupied by Philippus because they "like Nubia more" is...not great.

It might come across better if exploring their trauma was the primary purpose of the story instead of one of many half baked ideas. I think their guilt for abandoning the women of the outside world being part of their attitudes makes sense now that Morrison said it was what they were going for, but I would prefer it didn't manifest the way it did. And having them admit their guilt and change in-story would have been preferable.

I did always get the sense that Hippolyta was Morrison's favorite character to write even if they didn't "get" her (maybe other than Etta, who they do nail in execution). Or at least I think some of the nuances they were aiming for with Hippolyta aren't totally off the mark considering her checkered history, but it wasn't given the space to breathe.

They've used Nubia before and seem to like her, but the desire to have her be acknowledged and filling the necessary spot for Philippus being combined resulted in a tone deaf creative choice. "Donna's" origin in this would have been better for Nubia, allowing Philippus to be preserved.

Going back to what you said in the other thread, I feel like having a Phil Jimenez type involved and a Karen Berger or Andrea Shea editing rather than a known sexual predator would've made a big difference.

Maybe Britney Holzherr could edit some future volumes if they ever feel like doing more. Even as much of a mess as the volumes we got were, I still feel ripped off we didn't get Morrison's takes on Cheetah, Circe and Villainy Inc.

[Agent Z]

I do continue to find the enthusiasm for the ideas very interesting, even if very little of it gelled into a coherent whole in the final product. These Amazons are not the ones I would prefer beyond the visuals of their buildings, fashions and tech, but the thought process of having them act this way as an extension of them having full agency for their decision to isolate themselves makes some sense. I was reminded of Jeanette criticizing the Amazons for ignoring the plight of other women over the centuries, and how "the Amazons has no choice due to Doom's Doorway" can be viewed as a bit of a copout.

Jeanette's in no position to talk since she's done even less to help women despite how old she is and was shown as having little qualms working with sex slavers.

The Amazons want to hide from the outside world, and they have guilt for leaving other women behind as a consequence for that decision.

You really can't bring this up without addressing why they are hiding and this is a huge red flag when it comes to anyone writing Wonder Woman characters. Then again, the manner in which Morrison depicted Hercules's attack on them is the first clue they were not equipped to deal with this topic.

[Agent Z]

"Nubia was introduced in a 1973 story from Wonder Woman #204, where she was revealed to be Diana’s long-lost twin. She’s depicted here as Hippolyta’s bodyguard, lover, second-in-command, and the power behind the throne (a role taken by the later character Phillipus – but I prefer Nubia)."

I decided the Amazons still harboured a subconscious fear and horror of men and what they’re capable of, and a kind of disdain for the women of Man’s World who have allowed themselves to be subjugated. Diana is the first to overcome this fear and scorn and by doing so she ends the stasis and changes the world.

Calling it a "subconscious fear" is rather questionable given the first pages of volume one show - in exploitative detail - what the Amazons endured at the hands of men but Morrison shows no real interest in unpacking that.

I’ll admit I’ve always struggled with the idea that Diana began life as a clay statue of a child given life. It made her feel like a golem, a Pinocchio, rather than a living character. I overlooked the ‘given life’ bit to focus on the pottery aspect.

My first impulse, then, was to ditch the clay origin. Here, recalling this story’s origins in a film pitch, I wanted Hollywood style inner conflict where it’s revealed that Diana is in some sense the daughter of the hated Hercules…

Remember, Gail Simone parodied this mindset in her Wonder Woman run years before DC decided to make Diana having a father canon.

Somewhere in the middle of writing Volume 1, I realised I preferred the feminist myth of parthenogenetic female reproduction where Hippolyta models an ideal daughter in clay, which is then animated by the gods. It’s feminist Adam and Eve! Wonder Woman should be no man’s daughter!

I had to reconcile these impulses in this new iteration. The truth is revealed that Hippolyta combined her eggs with the seed of Hercules in her genetic weaving laboratory, sculpting Diana into life on a science fiction ‘potter’s wheel’.

And you couldn't just use the original clay version because...?

If this book had been written in the 1990s by Rob Liefeld or Brian Pulido, I suspect it would have far less defenders. As it stands, it's an embarrassment on the Wonder Woman ip and quite inferior to Historia in every way.

[SiegePerilous02]

Jeanette's in no position to talk since she's done even less to help women despite how old she is and was shown as having little qualms working with sex slavers.



You really can't bring this up without addressing why they are hiding and this is a huge red flag when it comes to anyone writing Wonder Woman characters. Then again, the manner in which Morrison depicted Hercules's attack on them is the first clue they were not equipped to deal with this topic.

I think the reason why they are choosing to sequester themselves away from our world can be depicted as valid, but the uncomfortable questions of why they observe what women go through in our world through the Magic Sphere and don't intervene is always going to be present. Sure, you can have the reasons being that the Gods put them there and/or remove the Magic Sphere element, but we have other versions that do that and that would defeat the purpose of even trying to use the Golden Age motivations and attempting to address the psychological reasons for it. Which aren't bad ideas conceptually even if this execution left much to be desired.

As bad as the Hercules scene in Earth One is, I do appreciate that she killed the bastard here and he's treated with nothing more than contempt. Honestly, Perez's manages to be embarrassing in its own ways. It's more obvious that a rape took place, Hippolyta gets victim blamed for it by Athena, then she kisses her rapist "because it had been a long time."

I think Historia is the clear winner on the Hercules stuff.

[Gaius]

While I generally adore most of Morrison's work, I can't help but indulge in a mordant chuckle over the notion of them *ever* keeping things simple.

With precious few exceptions*, "simple" is just not a weapon in their arsenal.

*The opening of All-Star Superman comes to mind.

Oh I know Morrison loves the more complicated things it gets. It's part of the charm of some of their work.

But that they, and apparently so many others, cannot get their head around a "basic world mythology 101" topic is just as irritating as it amusing. It's creating a problem that never existed.

[Agent Z]

I think the reason why they are choosing to sequester themselves away from our world can be depicted as valid, but the uncomfortable questions of why they observe what women go through in our world through the Magic Sphere and don't intervene is always going to be present. Sure, you can have the reasons being that the Gods put them there and/or remove the Magic Sphere element, but we have other versions that do that and that would defeat the purpose of even trying to use the Golden Age motivations and attempting to address the psychological reasons for it. Which aren't bad ideas conceptually even if this execution left much to be desired.

As bad as the Hercules scene in Earth One is, I do appreciate that she killed the bastard here and he's treated with nothing more than contempt. Honestly, Perez's manages to be embarrassing in its own ways. It's more obvious that a rape took place, Hippolyta gets victim blamed for it by Athena, then she kisses her rapist "because it had been a long time."

I think Historia is the clear winner on the Hercules stuff.

Perez's handling of the issue is far from perfect but he at least tried to give humanity to the Amazons. And while it doesn't really excuse it, his run came out in the 1980s. Morrison wrote this 2016 to 2021 and yet it somehow feels even more outdated.

To me, this book is further proof the Golden Age is best left in the past with the exception of very, very few concepts.

No disagreement on Historia.

[HsssH]

Oh I know Morrison loves the more complicated things it gets. It's part of the charm of some of their work.

But that they, and apparently so many others, cannot get their head around a "basic world mythology 101" topic is just as irritating as it amusing. It's creating a problem that never existed.

There is nothing to "get", it is not a complicated origin. Its just that some people don't like what it implies as Morrison very clearly stated in the quote.

[Gaius]

There is nothing to "get", it is not a complicated origin. Its just that some people don't like what it implies as Morrison very clearly stated in the quote.

Should we get rid of Batman being rich because of "no good billioanries"? Superman being an alien raised by humans?

Writers don't like her origin? Go make their own character whose a spawn of Hercules or Zeus.

[bardkeep]

I think the reason why they are choosing to sequester themselves away from our world can be depicted as valid, but the uncomfortable questions of why they observe what women go through in our world through the Magic Sphere and don't intervene is always going to be present. Sure, you can have the reasons being that the Gods put them there and/or remove the Magic Sphere element, but we have other versions that do that and that would defeat the purpose of even trying to use the Golden Age motivations and attempting to address the psychological reasons for it. Which aren't bad ideas conceptually even if this execution left much to be desired.

As bad as the Hercules scene in Earth One is, I do appreciate that she killed the bastard here and he's treated with nothing more than contempt. Honestly, Perez's manages to be embarrassing in its own ways. It's more obvious that a rape took place, Hippolyta gets victim blamed for it by Athena, then she kisses her rapist "because it had been a long time."

I think Historia is the clear winner on the Hercules stuff.

Perez's handling of the Heracles stuff is lousy but I do think his handling of the Amazons' trauma in general is really interesting and nuanced. Obviously a full run is a lot more time to explore that than 3 volumes, but Morrison failed to give the Amazons humanity in the way that Perez did. Perez's Amazons' hurt was built into their culture, and they were deeply skeptical of men and feared their intrusion, but they built a new life for themselves on the island and weren't consumed by their hatred of the outside world (which I think is Morrison's big misstep, and really isn't a great way of approaching trauma).

I think people forget that Perez's Amazons did make the choice to isolate themselves - they'd been ostracized because of their peace efforts in ancient Greece, so they sequestered themselves in their city before Heracles came along, won them over, and betrayed their trust. It's part of why the goddesses were disappointed in them.

But even if you don't count that, just look at Kelly Sue's Amazons - they'd just been freed from slavery and committed their lives to liberating other women and they still weren't consumed by their hatred of men in the way that Morrison's Amazons were. It's a much more realistic, empathetic way of looking at trauma and marginalization. I know we're all in agreement on Historia, but it's an important comparison that really doesn't flatter Earth One. For all its interesting concepts, EO is not at all a feminist work.

Perez's handling of the issue is far from perfect but he at least tried to give humanity to the Amazons. And while it doesn't really excuse it, his run came out in the 1980s. Morrison wrote this 2016 to 2021 and yet it somehow feels even more outdated.

To me, this book is further proof the Golden Age is best left in the past with the exception of very, very few concepts.

No disagreement on Historia.

I used to feel this way, but after reading more about Marston and digging into the GA comics more, I kinda feel like it's throwing away the baby with the bathwater. There's a lot of interesting stuff with Marston (including some ideas that Perez re-interpreted), and books like Earth One unfortunately play a big role in making people think he was singularly focused on kink. The bondage stuff was obviously a fetish, but it did have legitimate roots in 1st wave feminist iconography and it was just one part of a whole interesting picture. And maybe we can leave Marston's whole "love sex training" and female supremacist concepts in the past, but I do love the idea of the Amazons being very sexually open.

Plus, on a pure surface level, those Golden Age comics were delightfully, wildly imaginative in a way that modern stories aren't allowed to be and I wish more writers drew from Marston's characterization for Diana - fun and cheeky and kinda weird but still very wise, compassionate, and super smart.