Characters who don't work as villains

[Agent Z]

Hades - Besides being inaccurate (which isn't necessarily an issue for me depending on the execution), it's also cliche and unimaginative.

Hecate - Same as Hades. The closest we got to this idea being good was James Tynion's Justice League Dark and even then it was just her "crone" aspect being evil.

Vanessa - It worked for one story that was a meta commentary on how DC treated her and that's it.

Hera - See Hades and Hecate's entries.

Max Lord - Similar problem as Vanessa.

Medusa - Great as Rucka's run was, I'd drop Medusa being used as a villain if I could.



As a bonus, here are characters that are already villains but could work as heroic or neutral figures in the hands of really good writers:

Ares - Been done before by Perez, Rucka (twice) and Azzarello.

Circe - Was attempted by Messner-Loebs with.... mixed results. Could be done if Circe were examined through a feminist lens like the Amazons.

Angle Man - He's simply a thief and can be good or antagonistic without going fully heroic or fully villainous.



And characters who absolutely should be villains:

Zeus - Represents everything Diana hates far better than Ares.

Poseidon - As much of an ******* as his brother.

[Perseus]

I still feel like we need a solid 'eyes of the gorgon' animated and live action adapted story, but after that, yeah Medusa could stay in Hades, permanently.

I'll just drop Cheetah as a villain who doesn't really work as a hero too.

[Agent Z]

I still feel like we need a solid 'eyes of the gorgon' animated and live action adapted story, but after that, yeah Medusa could stay in Hades, permanently.

I'll just drop Cheetah as a villain who doesn't really work as a hero too.

Who says the Gorgon had to be Medusa?

[scary harpy]

Who says the Gorgon had to be Medusa?

True. Stheno and Euryale are available.

[Dr. Poison]

Ares - He's had decades to prove his godly status and hasn't made any big dents in the DC Universe. He's never even fought the entire JLA solo and gave them a run for their money. He might work better if they tied him to causing World War II and used that as the reason Diana went to Man's World and became Wonder Woman to stop him and the war.

Angle Man - He works better as a frenemy until someone comes up with a great idea to make him badass. The ingredients are there with his Angler coming from New Gods' tech...

The Mask - I think with her being abused and going after abusers, she would work better framed as an anti-hero.

[Nyssane]

I agree with most of these.

• I never like to see Hades depicted as a generic villain, and the only reason people think he's some big WW foe is because of Justice League (ugh).
• From what I've seen, Vanessa as Silver Swan just isn't popular. I'm not sure why they keep going with this instead of just bringing Helen back. Plus, Rucka's redemption of Vanessa was a great way to conclude that storyline. Her stint as the Swan was appropriately short-lived, but Robinson chose to crap all over the legacy of Vanessa and Julia in his run.
• I'll never see Hera as a straight-up villain after Historia, even if Cloonrad tried to do just that in their run (and failed horribly).
• I hope we never see Max Lord again.
• Medusa is a tricky one because she's such an iconic enemy. I love Nubia redeeming her as inviting her into the Amazons, but for a villain with such impact and longevity to be permanently shelved? I dunno 'bout that. A case could be made for them to use Euryale or Stheno, of course, but I don't think it'd pack the same punch.
• My feelings on Ares hasn't and probably will not change. He has the opposite issue of Medusa in that his impact only stems from WW's origin, but her using the lasso to quell his warmongering concludes his role as a villain so, so well. Rucka had the right idea to use him as a schemer or a neutral figure.
• It's always surprising to me when people are against Angle Man... like, sometimes goofy street-level dudes in costumes are just fun. The Rogues are amazing villains. Angle Man will never hold a candle to Diana's bigger foes, but it's still great to see an ordinary crook in over his head with a weapon that can alter space and time.
• I couldn't agree more about Zeus being more thematically interesting as an opponent for WW than Ares. And I'll also add Hercules to the mix. Even moreso than Zeus, Hercules is publicly recognized as a hero. Twisting that and making him one of Diana's biggest adversaries has a lot of thematic potential.
• No strong opinions on Poseidon whatsoever.
• The only two I don't agree with are Circe and Hecate. I love to see Circe depicted as Diana's ultimate big bad (like Brainiac or Ra's al Ghul), so I don't want her becoming less villainous. I'm less concerned about Hecate, but as Witching Hour showed, there's a lot that can be done with her. But I do like her more neutral role in Historia.

A few I would add to the list:

• Egg Fu - Every time he makes an appearance, it just makes me think of the horribly racist history of the character. Every single time. Shelve him permanently.
• Eirene - Of all the horrible plots and decisions by Meredith Finch, Eirene takes the cake for being the single worst. I abhor this character.
• First Born - I just don't like him. The straightest of straight male characters.
• Grail - She had her chance, but she's just not doing anything for me. Ditch her and instead give Lashina and the other Furies more to do against Diana.
• Liar Liar - We have so freakin' many illusionists and telepaths already. I know one of WW's key aspects is truth, but do we really need Max Lord's freakin' daughter?
• Urzkartaga - I think we need to move on from his impact on Cheetah.

[SiegePerilous02]

Medusa is a tricky one, because she's a figure with multiple origins even in the real world myths. The earliest versions of her were not meant to be sympathetic (indeed, Athena didn't originally curse them, they were born monsters), and she makes a badass villain, so utilizing that origin as the basis for his depiction of her was smart on Rucka's origin. But the Ovid origin of her being a rape victim is too well known to not address in this franchise. Since Medusa's spirit was in the Underworld in Rucka's runs, maybe Diana fights and kills her out of necessity and Nubia later reforms her spirit in a more controlled environment like she did in her mini series? Idk if we should go with a strict Ovid interpretation because that makes Athena unusable as a patron of the Amazons.

For the Swan, Vanessa's story is the best one. But it's also finite. If a recurring Swan is a necessity, Helen should be used instead.

[Gaius]

Agree with everyone else about Hera. I always thought it was weird she was pretty absent in WW's mythos and after Historia, I can't accept a villainous version of Hera pitted against the Amazons. That was the final nail in the coffin of Cloonan/Conrad's run for me.

Are villainous depictions of Hades all that common in WW? I guess there's DCAU but I don't consider that universe when it comes to how it depicted WW or her mythos anyway. New 52 probably, though none of the other gods were really that positive, so it's not like he was singled out. Pretty much every other time he shows up it's either neutral or not enough to make a judgement.

I don't care about villainous, heroic, or "redeemed" Max Lord. "Iconic" or not, Sacrifice is a badly written mess of a story and I don't want him in WW's books Have him go annoy the JLI.

[Agent Z]

Edited post.

[Agent Z]

[*]Medusa is a tricky one because she's such an iconic enemy. I love Nubia redeeming her as inviting her into the Amazons, but for a villain with such impact and longevity to be permanently shelved? I dunno 'bout that. A case could be made for them to use Euryale or Stheno, of course, but I don't think it'd pack the same punch.

Is Medusa really an iconic villain? She's got one great story in the Rucka run and the Wonder Woman iteration isn't known outside of the Wonder Woman fandom.

[Nyssane]

Are villainous depictions of Hades all that common in WW?

Not in WW, but definitely outside of it. I blame Disney.

Is Medusa really an iconic villain? She's got one great story in the Rucka run and the Wonder Woman iteration isn't known outside of the Wonder Woman fandom.

I mean, iconic is subjective, but I'd say so. Eyes of the Gorgon is often cited as one of WW's top comic moments. She's the big bad of Bloodlines. She's in the MAC ads. She's made lots of appearances in cartoons and video games. As far as WW villains go, she's pretty iconic.

[Skytten]

I have never liked any of the gods as straight up villains. However I think all the gods (with maybe the exception of someone like Hestia) could be villainous/antagonists.

[Agent Z]

Not in WW, but definitely outside of it. I blame Disney.



I mean, iconic is subjective, but I'd say so. Eyes of the Gorgon is often cited as one of WW's top comic moments. She's the big bad of Bloodlines. She's in the MAC ads. She's made lots of appearances in cartoons and video games. As far as WW villains go, she's pretty iconic.

What are the MAC ads?