Superhero Families - When does a 'family' become to big?

[Will Evans]

We’re at the point now where there is a League of Super Pets movie. Super families can never be too big, because it creates more marketing opportunities and ventures.

[Factor]

When there’s not enough place for most of the characters to appear or when two or more characters have the same role/niche.
But it’s not really about size as much as it is about writers and editors finding different hooks for all characters to successfully coexist.
I feel like they have failed pretty much all their families, though. They can’t figure out what to do with Tim’s generation, but can’t stop themselves from adding more and more characters who will suffer the same fate.

[DanMad1977]

Batman...then came Robin and the family was too big

[Triniking1234]

When you have multiple characters in the available roles.

Flash family has Barry and Wally rotating the main role. Impulse, Kid Flash and the purple one for the rookie role. Max and Jay for the senior father figure role plus a bunch of extras like Jesse show up sometimes and they have the audacity to give Linda powers.

Green Lantern's a mess.

[Zero Hunter]

Honestly? More than three. Four maybe. All the family now are bloated messes with most of the characters serving no real purpose. Batman has an army. There are enough Super fam to handle any threat with ease. It is hard enough to make one or two speedsters work in a universe let alone almost a dozen. How many archers does one universe need? It has just gotten ridiculous. It just dillutes the main character to have knock off after knock off running around.

[Frontier]

Was thinking about what I'd include in "my" Batman: Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Gordon, Selina, Damian, Barbara. Thats 7, close enough.

I wouldn't strictly count Alfred, Gordon, or Selina because they're support and Selina is usually doing her own thing.

I think at best you've got Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, with maybe 2-3 more.

I feel like there also characters like Batwoman or Huntress (and maybe even Steph as Spoiler) who work better doing their own thing.

[The Darknight Detective]

One day I do expect a new Robin. It’s gonna take one more for Bruce to give up the cowl. That and when he eventually becomes public domain and Warner is forced to adjust

Except 1) he's not going to give up the cowl and 2) Batman's earliest stories start to go into public domain about 11 years from now, so stories featuring the 1939 Batman are not going to affect the 2034 Bruce hardly at all.

[Alphaxman]

I think Pre-Flashpoint had the right amount for each family. But I do feel Wally's kids are too old and shouldn't have powers yet. They shouldn't have aged up Jon or Lian Harper.

Super-family: Superman, Supergirl, Superboy (Conner) [give him a new codename], Steel 2.0 (John Henry should retire), Power Girl. And I guess Jon.

Bat-Family: Batman, Nightwing, Damion, Tim, Spoiler, Batgirl (Cass), Barbara, Huntress.
Batwoman, Flamebird, the Red Hood, and Catwoman should be on the outside. Signal could be Batwing's (Jace or Luke) partner, operating in another city.

Wonder-family: Wonder Woman, Hippolyta, Donna, Cassie, Artemis, Nubia, Steve. I wouldn't mind Fury (Lyta or Helena) either.

Flash-Family: Barry, Wally, Jay, Bart, Jessie. Maybe Ace.

Green Arrow: Oliver, Black Canary, Roy, Connor, Mia. I would love Artemis (animated) to be active hero, but not close to the Arrow family.

Aqua-family: Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Tula, Kaldur'ahm (not Jackson), Dolphin.

I would keep all of the Lanterns, but I would separate them into different Corps - Green, Violet or Blue. That's just me.

[Psy-lock]

I don’t think any of the families are too big, they just need to be utilized more effectively. The image of the Superman family is a good example. Why put them in uniforms when it makes Conner, Jon and Kenan look even more indistinguishable?

[Ascended]

When you have too many characters to adequately cover or focus on across books or in your family of titles.

When it oversaturates your market.

This. A family is too big when it surpasses the market's demand.

When the demand contracts and you end up with 'extas' I figure you set them aside but don't try to write them out or kill them off. Just send them off to have adventures off panel so another writer can pick them up later on without any hassle. And I don't like the trend of creating new characters in the hope of adaptation royalties, that kind of inflation hurts us all in the long run. If a new character absolutely must be created to fill the role the writer has in mind then okay, but if an established face can fit the bill without a 'ton' of twisting I'd prefer to see that most of the time.

But just on the creative end of things, I think it depends on the character in question. Batman's a dude trying (on a subconscious level) to replace the family he lost, so it makes a kind of sense that he'd surround himself with adopted orphans. Superman, if you pay attention, is a friendly loner who doesn't let a lot of people get too close to him and tends to sidestep the responsibility of family bonds (until Jon, DC changed everything with him), so it makes a kind of sense that there shouldn't be many Supers running around. Wonder Woman should have a large family; every royal has an entourage, every general an army, every leader a following.

[skyvolt2000]

This. A family is too big when it surpasses the market's demand.

When the demand contracts and you end up with 'extas' I figure you set them aside but don't try to write them out or kill them off. Just send them off to have adventures off panel so another writer can pick them up later on without any hassle. And I don't like the trend of creating new characters in the hope of adaptation royalties, that kind of inflation hurts us all in the long run. If a new character absolutely must be created to fill the role the writer has in mind then okay, but if an established face can fit the bill without a 'ton' of twisting I'd prefer to see that most of the time.

But just on the creative end of things, I think it depends on the character in question. Batman's a dude trying (on a subconscious level) to replace the family he lost, so it makes a kind of sense that he'd surround himself with adopted orphans. Superman, if you pay attention, is a friendly loner who doesn't let a lot of people get too close to him and tends to sidestep the responsibility of family bonds (until Jon, DC changed everything with him), so it makes a kind of sense that there shouldn't be many Supers running around. Wonder Woman should have a large family; every royal has an entourage, every general an army, every leader a following.

Well folks can yell about the market all they like but at the end of the day- the source of the issue is EDITORIAL.

When you tell me I can't use Stephanie, Wally or Cassandra because they are TOXIC by order of the boss.
Or previous eras were denied the right to create characters of color because of comic book store and certain parts of the fandom.
Or you hire writers who do NO research or are trying to get adaptation royalties and editors do not put their foot down on 'USE WHO IS ALREADY HERE".
Or that editor has a bias towards a certain character getting development of used-see Monica and how she was written out of Avengers and the SAGA known as Tyroc in Legion.

Guess what happens??? Example-

If you wanted a black boy in the Batman family-you had Kevin Hudman (Tim Drake's classmate), James Cooper(Huntress's foster son), Black Spider had a son, Black Lightning has a nephew, Bronze Tiger has a nephew, Impulse had Roland and a fake looking Static villain from McDuffie, Steel has a nephew and even Superman had Keith Roberts White (Perry's son).

Who could fit Duke Thomas's origin because the most are blank slates. Heck Duke is a solar power guy-could Hotspot from Teen Titans fits the bill?

Teen Titans academy? WHY of WHY am I see all these new folks? Relative Hero kids were THAT busy? DV8 gang or Dial H for Hero kid too? We haven't even TOUCHED Wildstorm.

You had enough folks collecting DUST that there should not be a need to create new folks. There are enough folks to give everyone from Cyborg to Ambush Bug a support staff and rogue galleries.

Editorial has to do it's jobs and put a kibosh on new folks.

[Frontier]

I think Pre-Flashpoint had the right amount for each family. But I do feel Wally's kids are too old and shouldn't have powers yet. They shouldn't have aged up Jon or Lian Harper.

Super-family: Superman, Supergirl, Superboy (Conner) [give him a new codename], Steel 2.0 (John Henry should retire), Power Girl. And I guess Jon.

Bat-Family: Batman, Nightwing, Damion, Tim, Spoiler, Batgirl (Cass), Barbara, Huntress.
Batwoman, Flamebird, the Red Hood, and Catwoman should be on the outside. Signal could be Batwing's (Jace or Luke) partner, operating in another city.

Wonder-family: Wonder Woman, Hippolyta, Donna, Cassie, Artemis, Nubia, Steve. I wouldn't mind Fury (Lyta or Helena) either.

Flash-Family: Barry, Wally, Jay, Bart, Jessie. Maybe Ace.

Green Arrow: Oliver, Black Canary, Roy, Connor, Mia. I would love Artemis (animated) to be active hero, but not close to the Arrow family.

Aqua-family: Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Tula, Kaldur'ahm (not Jackson), Dolphin.

I would keep all of the Lanterns, but I would separate them into different Corps - Green, Violet or Blue. That's just me.

Post-Crisis had the benefit of gradual progress and being able to develop/evolve characters, the reboot really threw that out and now everyone is kind of a mess.

[dietrich]

Well folks can yell about the market all they like but at the end of the day- the source of the issue is EDITORIAL.

When you tell me I can't use Stephanie, Wally or Cassandra because they are TOXIC by order of the boss.
Or previous eras were denied the right to create characters of color because of comic book store and certain parts of the fandom.
Or you hire writers who do NO research or are trying to get adaptation royalties and editors do not put their foot down on 'USE WHO IS ALREADY HERE".
Or that editor has a bias towards a certain character getting development of used-see Monica and how she was written out of Avengers and the SAGA known as Tyroc in Legion.

Guess what happens??? Example-

If you wanted a black boy in the Batman family-you had Kevin Hudman (Tim Drake's classmate), James Cooper(Huntress's foster son), Black Spider had a son, Black Lightning has a nephew, Bronze Tiger has a nephew, Impulse had Roland and a fake looking Static villain from McDuffie, Steel has a nephew and even Superman had Keith Roberts White (Perry's son).

Who could fit Duke Thomas's origin because the most are blank slates. Heck Duke is a solar power guy-could Hotspot from Teen Titans fits the bill?

Teen Titans academy? WHY of WHY am I see all these new folks? Relative Hero kids were THAT busy? DV8 gang or Dial H for Hero kid too? We haven't even TOUCHED Wildstorm.

You had enough folks collecting DUST that there should not be a need to create new folks. There are enough folks to give everyone from Cyborg to Ambush Bug a support staff and rogue galleries.

Editorial has to do it's jobs and put a kibosh on new folks.

While I agree that editorial should put some restrictions on writers introducing new characters, your argument against Duke introduction doesn't work.

Using any of the characters you mentioned in place of Duke is still introducing a new character to the Batamily.

Non of them were part of the family. Tim's Black friend transitioning to a bat ally and a Gotham hero IS introducing a new character who writers will have to find space for. a niche for and try to push.

A bloated family doesn't get smaller if you replace Duke with Tim's friend. If a bowl contains one fresh apple and you swap that one fresh apple with one stale dusty apple. That bowl still has one apple.

Ps. The markets are important especially with the factors you cited [which affects most characters fyi] in play alongside the increased competition brought on by bloat.

demand/performance becomes even more important when panel space is limited and can be the sole thing saving a character from limbo/going on the Toxic pr Off limits lists/replaced by the character the writers grew up reading

Damian Wayne for example is a character that editorial has put off limits list twice now, bat office and several writers have gone out of their way to bury, undermine and despoil. Repeatedly. It's thanks to the markets that he still gets a shot. Robin 2021 having decent sales is the reason why DC only paused rather than cancel further Williamson projects after Shadow War.

Market demand and performance are part of why characters like Cass, Wally, Steph, Damian and some others who made DC's off limits/Too Toxic lists were eventually taken off those lists and were brought back/available to use, all restrictions taken off.

[SiegePerilous02]

It shouldn't go beyond 3-4. I think the Bronze age had the right amount of costumed "family" members mixed with civilian supporting casts. Superman, Supergirl and Krypto were the only Kryptonians. Batman only had Robin and Batgirl. Wonder Woman had one Wonder Girl (who barely spent any time with her....), Flash had Kid Flash, the core Marvel Family was Billy, Mary and Freddy, etc.

It becomes way too bloated afterward. The downside is the market doesn't allow any other means to bring in much needed diversity.

[Agent Z]

I don’t think any of the families are too big, they just need to be utilized more effectively. The image of the Superman family is a good example. Why put them in uniforms when it makes Conner, Jon and Kenan look even more indistinguishable?

This is the best answer to this question.