Superhero Families - When does a 'family' become to big?

[Rac7d*]

Eh I think it's generally accepted that Cass is Batgirl while Steph is spoiler. Thought Cass perhaps would compete with Robin for Batman mantle I guess

Is it the bat is still on her chest

[Zero Hunter]

Everyone who keeps saying its not to big as long as the writer can handle it. The problem with that is once that writer leaves the characters they created or brought in are STILL THERE, and the next writer is stuck with them. The powers that be won't even let them write them out of the book because "every character is someones favorite and it will offend someone to bench them".

[Agent Z]

Everyone who keeps saying its not to big as long as the writer can handle it. The problem with that is once that writer leaves the characters they created or brought in are STILL THERE, and the next writer is stuck with them. The powers that be won't even let them write them out of the book because "every character is someones favorite and it will offend someone to bench them".

This isn't true in the slightest. Writers leave out or even kill off characters all the time.

Just for example, has Helena Bertinelli been seen since Shadows of the Bat?

[Will Evans]

This isn't true in the slightest. Writers leave out or even kill off characters all the time.

Just for example, has Helena Bertinelli been seen since Shadows of the Bat?

She was just in Beast World: Gotham special this week.

[Kaijudo]

Of the images posted at the start of the thread, the only one that doesn't feel too overblown or unwieldy is the Green Arrow one. In fact, you add Mia Dearden to that group and I think it's perfect.

Superman I think should be Clark, Kara, Jon, and Conner. Natasha Irons is part of the Steel family, who can be inspired by Superman but is their own thing. Power Girl shouldn't be lumped in. New Super-Man should have his own identity and not be a Superman knockoff. I don't even know who the two kids are but I doubt they offer much of anything to what's going on, if history is any indicator.

Flash...here's where I ruffle feathers, but Barry should just be gone. They make the point of bringing him back after a great death in a hackneyed story, let him run the title for a few years, and now he's just "guy on the phone" while Wally takes over the title? What's even the point? Get rid of him. Keep Jay and Impulse, and Max as Impulse's mentor. Johnny and Jesse Quick are their own family with a tangential relationship to the family (like Steel above). XS is ultimately a Legion character and not a direct "Flash Family" member. I don't think Wallace adds too much, but keep him around now that Bart is Impulse again. Avery Ho should be as much a family member as frickin' Red Trinity are family members. Wally's kids should just be kids, more "family" than "Flash."

Wonder Woman on here doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Basically, this looks like Diana, Donna, Cassie, and then characters who may've taken the Wonder Woman role at some point, but now they're just...Amazons. Making Artemis and Nubia as part of the family is like making Perry White part of the Superman family. They're supporting characters. And as for Yara...have her stick around, but she's another "big new idea" that went nowhere and is now redundant. She should get a new, original identity that sets her apart from Cassie.

Batman...woof. Where to even start? Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian, absolutely. Jason, sure, why not, although he works better as an outlier than a full-blown family member these days. Barbara should totally be there, but not necessarily as Batgirl. Cassie and Stephanie I'd keep around, as Batgirl and Spoiler respectively. The rest...Huntress and Batwoman were never really big "family members" so much as working in the periphery, only coming in when needed. Signal really doesn't serve a purpose (I guess working the Gotham "day shift" didn't pay off) so he should be shuttered off as an independent hero, away from the Bat-family. And Catwoman...a "will they/won't they" sometimes ally anti-hero does not a family member make...especially since I don't remember the wedding going so well.

Only other one I'd add to this would be Aquaman. Arthur, Mera, Garth, Jackson, and an Aquagirl, be it Tula or Lorena Marquez. That's it.

As for the Lanterns, they're an organization, not a family, so I don't really count them. I do think there's an overabundance of human Lanterns from Earth, and I get you need to make the characters relateable to the reader blah blah blah, but would it kill someone to give Sector 2814 to another species? Oh, except Teen Lantern. That's a dumb idea and should be gotten rid of asap.

[skyvolt2000]

Everyone who keeps saying its not to big as long as the writer can handle it. The problem with that is once that writer leaves the characters they created or brought in are STILL THERE, and the next writer is stuck with them. The powers that be won't even let them write them out of the book because "every character is someones favorite and it will offend someone to bench them".

No they are not.

We can go down the line of folks who lost a lot when a new writer arrived.


A lot of folks had supporting casts that have not been seen in decades.

Where was Tim Drake's homeboys in his series or New 52? The ones he actually spent time with WAY more than Bernard?
How long was Jace Fox and Kate on the shelf in Batman before they showed back up?

No writer are stuck with these folks.

What happens is a lot of these guys are victims of whatever pitch the editor accepts.

You don't hire a writer who ONLY wants to write Batman and IGNORES the rest of the family. Or as we have seen in the current run writes them all badly and out of character.

Or worst you hire the writer and make them add a person-they appear to not want to even bother writing. That is how you get Duke Thomas under Tom King. The partner of Batman that does one panel cameos until he's written out of the book 2 years later and doesn't have enough page time in the main book to fill up a single issue comic.

These are the problems.

Batman has a family guess what pitches should include them. Same with Flash, Superman, Green Lantern and so on. Unless they have solo books or minis or it's a storyline that has whoever outside of the zone to include them.

[Agent Z]

Of the images posted at the start of the thread, the only one that doesn't feel too overblown or unwieldy is the Green Arrow one. In fact, you add Mia Dearden to that group and I think it's perfect.

Superman I think should be Clark, Kara, Jon, and Conner. Natasha Irons is part of the Steel family, who can be inspired by Superman but is their own thing. Power Girl shouldn't be lumped in. New Super-Man should have his own identity and not be a Superman knockoff. I don't even know who the two kids are but I doubt they offer much of anything to what's going on, if history is any indicator.

Flash...here's where I ruffle feathers, but Barry should just be gone. They make the point of bringing him back after a great death in a hackneyed story, let him run the title for a few years, and now he's just "guy on the phone" while Wally takes over the title? What's even the point? Get rid of him. Keep Jay and Impulse, and Max as Impulse's mentor. Johnny and Jesse Quick are their own family with a tangential relationship to the family (like Steel above). XS is ultimately a Legion character and not a direct "Flash Family" member. I don't think Wallace adds too much, but keep him around now that Bart is Impulse again. Avery Ho should be as much a family member as frickin' Red Trinity are family members. Wally's kids should just be kids, more "family" than "Flash."

Wonder Woman on here doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Basically, this looks like Diana, Donna, Cassie, and then characters who may've taken the Wonder Woman role at some point, but now they're just...Amazons. Making Artemis and Nubia as part of the family is like making Perry White part of the Superman family. They're supporting characters. And as for Yara...have her stick around, but she's another "big new idea" that went nowhere and is now redundant. She should get a new, original identity that sets her apart from Cassie.

Batman...woof. Where to even start? Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian, absolutely. Jason, sure, why not, although he works better as an outlier than a full-blown family member these days. Barbara should totally be there, but not necessarily as Batgirl. Cassie and Stephanie I'd keep around, as Batgirl and Spoiler respectively. The rest...Huntress and Batwoman were never really big "family members" so much as working in the periphery, only coming in when needed. Signal really doesn't serve a purpose (I guess working the Gotham "day shift" didn't pay off) so he should be shuttered off as an independent hero, away from the Bat-family. And Catwoman...a "will they/won't they" sometimes ally anti-hero does not a family member make...especially since I don't remember the wedding going so well.

Only other one I'd add to this would be Aquaman. Arthur, Mera, Garth, Jackson, and an Aquagirl, be it Tula or Lorena Marquez. That's it.

As for the Lanterns, they're an organization, not a family, so I don't really count them. I do think there's an overabundance of human Lanterns from Earth, and I get you need to make the characters relateable to the reader blah blah blah, but would it kill someone to give Sector 2814 to another species? Oh, except Teen Lantern. That's a dumb idea and should be gotten rid of asap.

All of them are supporting characters when they aren't the stars of their own books.

[Will Evans]

Everyone who keeps saying its not to big as long as the writer can handle it. The problem with that is once that writer leaves the characters they created or brought in are STILL THERE, and the next writer is stuck with them. The powers that be won't even let them write them out of the book because "every character is someones favorite and it will offend someone to bench them".

Are you suggesting for them to be killed off Jason Todd style?

[Zero Hunter]

Are you suggesting for them to be killed off Jason Todd style?

No just retire some of them. I could clear the board of speedster in one story by just having them cut off from the speed force with only one or two being able to use it. Superman fam deage Jon and shuffle off those new kids to Kandor. Have Tim, Steph, and half the rest of the bat family just retire the costume and get real lives. Send Jason off on his own and out of Gotham full time.

[Rac7d*]

This isn't true in the slightest. Writers leave out or even kill off characters all the time.

Just for example, has Helena Bertinelli been seen since Shadows of the Bat?

It is totally true, the Batfamily is a bloated as heck when we know that only 7 are important.
Superman is actually doing a prettty job balancing all of the characters with the limited number of titles.
Where somone like Signal/Duke has spent the year in background shots and short sentences, Characters like Dreamer, Lana and even the Twins are making a place for themselves

Huntress is still present in the DC, have they done the batfamily version of Powergirls/Supergirl identity crisis

[skyvolt2000]

-

As for the Lanterns, they're an organization, not a family, so I don't really count them. I do think there's an overabundance of human Lanterns from Earth, and I get you need to make the characters relateable to the reader blah blah blah, but would it kill someone to give Sector 2814 to another species? Oh, except Teen Lantern. That's a dumb idea and should be gotten rid of asap.

In-between the hatefest lead by certain fans of Hal and even John for the Thorne run of Green Lantern. He DID get rid of her. Last time we saw her, she was still in a coma powerless.

Where somone like Signal/Duke has spent the year in background shots and short sentences, Characters like Dreamer, Lana and even the Twins are making a place for themselves

Not counting the recent Batman arc-Duke was mainly on two variant covers (Nightwing and DC Power) and a pinup in DC Power.

It boils down to one editorial trying to make an effort and the other is too busy redoing old Batman stories.

[Kingdom X]

Modern comics don't have enough regular people in their cast of characters. It's just a lot of costumed people hanging out together--which makes the lead character not that special. The classic Superman family was just Superman, Supergirl and Krypto--and the rest were people in street clothes. As long as the cast is filled out with other regular people, it makes the world feel lived in, but if it's only costumes it feels bloated.

This made me think that some of the extended family members should definitely be allowed to "retire" and return to civilian life. It could be treated like it is in the Young Justice animated show where getting out of "the life" was viewed as a positive. Have many of them take on public service jobs to show that they're still doing good even when the costume has been hung up. And whenever the next big crisis event pops up you can have them show up in the cavalry moment to give their fans something.

[marhawkman]

This made me think that some of the extended family members should definitely be allowed to "retire" and return to civilian life. It could be treated like it is in the Young Justice animated show where getting out of "the life" was viewed as a positive. Have many of them take on public service jobs to show that they're still doing good even when the costume has been hung up. And whenever the next big crisis event pops up you can have them show up in the cavalry moment to give their fans something.

Or semi-retired and not active on a daily basis. Don't need to do daily patrols to be a hero.

[Agent Z]

It is totally true, the Batfamily is a bloated as heck when we know that only 7 are important.
Superman is actually doing a prettty job balancing all of the characters with the limited number of titles.
Where somone like Signal/Duke has spent the year in background shots and short sentences, Characters like Dreamer, Lana and even the Twins are making a place for themselves

Huntress is still present in the DC, have they done the batfamily version of Powergirls/Supergirl identity crisis

Everyone who keeps saying its not to big as long as the writer can handle it. The problem with that is once that writer leaves the characters they created or brought in are STILL THERE, and the next writer is stuck with them. The powers that be won't even let them write them out of the book because "every character is someones favorite and it will offend someone to bench them".

The emphasized text is what I was responding to.