What Can Be Done with Jace Fox?

[Aahz]

His book makes that really clear. Spells it out a lot, actually. It's pretty much just as prevalent as Bruce Wayne's motivation. How many of his stories have you read?

Ok it boils mostly down to some guilt over being a spoiled rich black kid, and some really big misconceptions about Batman.

But that neither really makes for a compelling origin, nor is that good reason for him being Batman.

[Mantis-Ray]

Ok it boils mostly down to some guilt over being a spoiled rich black kid, and some really big misconceptions about Batman.

But that neither really makes for a compelling origin, nor is that good reason for him being Batman.

To be fair his motivation is also guilt from accidentally murdering a man and his parents covering it up.

Which yeesh Jace's series really turned Lucius into an utter shitstain of a father.

[Aahz]

To be fair his motivation is also guilt from accidentally murdering a man and his parents covering it up.

Which is not exactly a compelling origin.

And would make more sense if he was actually fighting corruption or helping people who get screwed over by the legal system, and not super villains.

I still don't really see what he really brings to the table that any other Batfamily member wouldn't do better.

[Emperorjones]

A majority of Miles Morales' comics have taken place in Earth-616. I don't think that's a great example.

We can all tell you don't like Jace being Batman at the same time as Bruce. But there's no argument against the fact that every Black character that already does what you want for Jace rarely actually show up in books, and if they do, they're running around in team books like Luke Fox.

Or stuck in event oneshots like David Zavimbe. Or having minor wholesome appearances like Duke Thomas.

Your dislike for the character being Batman does not mean him being "Orpheus" or "Irrelevant Fox" is better for the character.

I don't work for DC, so I don't know what's best for the character, and neither do you, or anyone else here I suspect. Whatever works, if Jace is used again, will be best. Miles Morales had the space to establish himself in a reality separate from the Earth-616 Spider-Man (who is the main and definitive Spider-Man) before he made it to the 616. Further, the Spider-Verse movies have also established he is the main guy in his reality, and those movies are seen by a lot more people than the ones who read comics. (I would be fine with Miles Morales also getting a separate, distinct codename. I feel the more distinct codename you have; it allows the character to stand better on their own and avoids being seen as a knock-off or token character). As an aside, I also would like Connor Hawke and Wally West to get new codenames too, unless Ollie and Barry retire. Feel the same way about Jon Kent as long as Clark is still around. I don't care for characters using the same codenames, it makes them feel redundant.

Don't presume I disliked Jace as Batman. I never have said so, though I do wish that he had another codename to stand out more. Jace as Batman was hamstrung by Bruce being around at the same time. He wasn't allowed to be THE Batman, unlike the other Batmen. When Azrael, Grayson, and Gordon took over, Bruce's Batman was often out the picture. There was that time when both Grayson and Bruce were Batmen at the same time, but that didn't last that long.

The lack of appearances for the other Black characters you named is more of a lack of interest on the part of DC, and not something inherently wrong with those characters. As I mentioned before, characters like Peacemaker languish until someone picks them up and runs with them. Though comparing Jace to the other Black characters introduced into the Batman mythos over the last two decades, what makes him all that special to be honest. It's not like he's vastly different in skill set even. Zavimbe works in Africa, Duke is a metahuman, Michael Lane has the supernatural aspect. Jace and Luke are similar, but Luke was there first-so to speak. Compared to Luke, I did like the setup with Jace more, where he's seeking redemption. Luke started out as more of a generic, young, good guy character (though I've seen DC making him more complicated over the years).

I do like Jace, but I'm not raving over him. There were hints of an interesting history with him that was barely touched on. The other guys might have one shots and miniseries, but Jace would be so lucky to get another one of those spotlights right now. And if that meant him no longer being Batman, I'm fine with that. It's the character, not being Batman necessarily, that I would like to see DC do more with.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I don't mind Waller trying to recruit Jace but I don't see Jace working for her without some blackmail. So that could be angle for a potential miniseries.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't work for DC, so I don't know what's best for the character, and neither do you, or anyone else here I suspect.

Something is NOT right that your top franchise struggles with black male characters. Then again if the attitude is the same as the X-Office when it comes to black males-what can you expect?

Funny of the top franchises Spider-Man is not having issues while everyone else is. Is it that hard to find a writer or is it editorial?

As previous writers Snyder and Tynion aren't having this issue at Boom or Comixology with black male characters. In fact none of the previous bat writers have issues writing black male characters beyond background fodder at other companies. John Ridley being the exception for his butchering of Black Panther at Marvel.

So what is the issue? That there is this give up after one series or one shot.

IS it Milestone existing?? Suddenly there is no need because of them? Which makes no sense because DC does not OWN Milestone. Static being a hit doesn't help Duke or Cyborg or Jefferson or whoever. He's not DC's property.

He is I think the 6th black male character they tried to add to the franchise since the 2000s.

Gavin
David Batwing #1
Luke
Duke
Michael Lane
Crispus Allen
Jace
A case could be made for Kevin Hudman. Since DC dug up Bernard who has less appearances and glued him to Tim.
We are talking almost 8. He's been MIA for now 17 years.
9 if you count Black Spider.
10 if you count Bleak Michael from Batgirl. Who has been MIA for now 10 years.
11 if you add in Gus from Birds of Prey.

Only the Fox brothers, David and Lane got ongoings. Interesting enough they all got 18 solo as a lead issues.
Duke has been in two team books. Only one made to issue 18. One mini that was 3 issues and 1 one shot and 1 story in Batman Urban. Wayne Family Adventures has done more with Duke outside of comics.
Gavin got 5 mini series issues.
Crispus Allen has been used more outside of comics since 2011. His mini went 3 & 8 respectively.

[Superboy-Prime]

I do like Jace, but I'm not raving over him. There were hints of an interesting history with him that was barely touched on. The other guys might have one shots and miniseries, but Jace would be so lucky to get another one of those spotlights right now. And if that meant him no longer being Batman, I'm fine with that. It's the character, not being Batman necessarily, that I would like to see DC do more with.

Jace being Batman is probably the reason he’s about to get more than just a spotlight.

The interesting thing about Jace is that he brings the entire Fox family with him. He’s the Batman focused around family. That doesn’t work if you take his name and make him a Batwing or Orpheus or Signal-type character.

Taking Batman from him only makes there less to be done with the character.

[Mantis-Ray]

Jace being Batman is probably the reason he’s about to get more than just a spotlight.

The interesting thing about Jace is that he brings the entire Fox family with him. He’s the Batman focused around family. That doesn’t work if you take his name and make him a Batwing or Orpheus or Signal-type character.

Taking Batman from him only makes there less to be done with the character.

Granted saying he's the Batman with a family is kind of a double-edged sword, cause honestly Jace's Batman tenure has just completely decimated the Fox family.

Lucius got turned into a generic rich *******, Tanya's terrible, Luke is turned into the guy no one likes and the ignored son, and Tiff became a huge jerk to Luke. Only Tam came out of the book looking decent and thats mostly cause she spends most of the book sick or in a coma.

[Will Evans]

Granted saying he's the Batman with a family is kind of a double-edged sword, cause honestly Jace's Batman tenure has just completely decimated the Fox family.

Lucius got turned into a generic rich *******, Tanya's terrible, Luke is turned into the guy no one likes and the ignored son, and Tiff became a huge jerk to Luke. Only Tam came out of the book looking decent and thats mostly cause she spends most of the book sick or in a coma.

Lol. I admit that is true. But at least you can’t blame them for being Mary and Gary Sues.

[Superboy-Prime]

Granted saying he's the Batman with a family is kind of a double-edged sword, cause honestly Jace's Batman tenure has just completely decimated the Fox family.

Lucius got turned into a generic rich *******, Tanya's terrible, Luke is turned into the guy no one likes and the ignored son, and Tiff became a huge jerk to Luke. Only Tam came out of the book looking decent and thats mostly cause she spends most of the book sick or in a coma.

Only if you hadn’t read Luke’s Batwing.

That book ended with Tanya being verbally abusive and Tam in a vegetative state.

Ridley only really hurt Lucius. And he’s still got redeeming qualities. Tanya was shown to be a woman who really cared about her family, same as Tiff. She became a vigilante because of Tam’s situation. So I do disagree with boiling down everything to how she treated Luke. He’s barely in the book, and that’s something that can be easily resolved.

So, no, I don’t think it’s a double-edged sword. It just is what it is. Any other writer can take advantage of the concept.

[Frontier]

Honestly Ridley turned me off the entire Fox family outside Jace and Luke.

It was like discount Empire.

[Emperorjones]

Jace being Batman is probably the reason he’s about to get more than just a spotlight.

The interesting thing about Jace is that he brings the entire Fox family with him. He’s the Batman focused around family. That doesn’t work if you take his name and make him a Batwing or Orpheus or Signal-type character.

Taking Batman from him only makes there less to be done with the character.

If DC does have big plans for Jace as Batman in the future, that's cool. I'm skeptical about that, but we'll see. That said, Jace being part of the Fox family makes him stand out more, and gives him more of a lane, due to the history of the Foxes in the Bat books more than Jace being another Batman. He doesn't have a strong rationale to be Batman. And he's not been mentored or tutored by Batman. If they had built on the quick crossover he had with Nightwing that might have sufficed, but they didn't. It didn't help that in the Jace miniseries and solo series, more drama was stirred in between Jace and Luke and then Lucius. I Am Batman made Lucius look bad (a character much better known and popular in Batworld), without necessarily making Jace look good, and then the book ended before we got a proper reunion (while getting no reunion between Luke and Jace). I hope that the Outsiders book does something with Luke and Jace to tie up that loose end.

[Superboy-Prime]

If DC does have big plans for Jace as Batman in the future, that's cool. I'm skeptical about that, but we'll see. That said, Jace being part of the Fox family makes him stand out more, and gives him more of a lane, due to the history of the Foxes in the Bat books more than Jace being another Batman. He doesn't have a strong rationale to be Batman. And he's not been mentored or tutored by Batman. If they had built on the quick crossover he had with Nightwing that might have sufficed, but they didn't. It didn't help that in the Jace miniseries and solo series, more drama was stirred in between Jace and Luke and then Lucius. I Am Batman made Lucius look bad (a character much better known and popular in Batworld), without necessarily making Jace look good, and then the book ended before we got a proper reunion (while getting no reunion between Luke and Jace). I hope that the Outsiders book does something with Luke and Jace to tie up that loose end.

I don't think his rationale is "weak," it's because of Lucius. And Lucius has been a big part of Batman's world for years. It's because Jace thought the worst of his father, and thus Batman, a trait that comes from Earth-One. He wanted to appropriate the mantle.

The thing that was never really explained is why he chose to keep it after that was corrected, but you can easily fill in the blanks with that being in honor of his dad as shown in #5.

[Aahz]

The interesting thing about Jace is that he brings the entire Fox family with him. He’s the Batman focused around family. That doesn’t work if you take his name and make him a Batwing or Orpheus or Signal-type character.

Not sure what difference the Mantle makes here.
And I mean not even the family is that new, Ridley basically just took the Family like it was in Lukes Batwing series, kicked Luke out and brought Jace in...

[marvelprince]

Granted saying he's the Batman with a family is kind of a double-edged sword, cause honestly Jace's Batman tenure has just completely decimated the Fox family.

Lucius got turned into a generic rich *******, Tanya's terrible, Luke is turned into the guy no one likes and the ignored son, and Tiff became a huge jerk to Luke. Only Tam came out of the book looking decent and thats mostly cause she spends most of the book sick or in a coma.

I mean that's kind of the point of the family drama no? All of them started and ended up in different places by the end tho. Lucius and Jace healed their rift, Tanya actually had a personality here, Tiff learned to channel her anger. I think Luke was the only one to not really move but obviously there was also a plan there. And its something that's distinct to these guys since most of the Bat-fam doesn't have a lot of family to explore these kinds of stories.

Now I'm not saying I like all the stuff they did, it really felt a little too overwrought at times but I appreciate them swinging. I still think they had the right idea to focus on the aspects of Jace's story that would be unique to him, it all just didn't land. But I see the potential still so I hope it continues.