What Can Be Done with Jace Fox?

[marvelprince]

I don't think his rationale is "weak," it's because of Lucius. And Lucius has been a big part of Batman's world for years. It's because Jace thought the worst of his father, and thus Batman, a trait that comes from Earth-One. He wanted to appropriate the mantle.

The thing that was never really explained is why he chose to keep it after that was corrected, but you can easily fill in the blanks with that being in honor of his dad as shown in #5.

Yeah I think his initial hook for taking up the mantle is actually pretty strong. Appropriate the mantle, using perceived tools of oppression to make a difference. I agree though they didn't explain enough his motivation for continuing after he learns the whole truth. I think it a timing thing but I would like to see it expanded on.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://www.deviantart.com/domeddi/a...SIGN-375634910

I'm hoping Jace gets a cape that can act like a coat. I christen this concept the Bat-coat. .

[marvelprince]

https://www.deviantart.com/domeddi/a...SIGN-375634910

I'm hoping Jace gets a cape that can act like a coat. I christen this concept the Bat-coat. .

Nice! Looks like a more streamlined take on the Future Damian's batsuit.

[Emperorjones]

I don't think his rationale is "weak," it's because of Lucius. And Lucius has been a big part of Batman's world for years. It's because Jace thought the worst of his father, and thus Batman, a trait that comes from Earth-One. He wanted to appropriate the mantle.

The thing that was never really explained is why he chose to keep it after that was corrected, but you can easily fill in the blanks with that being in honor of his dad as shown in #5.

Why would he want to appropriate something that he despised at first? Just to stick it to his father? It's convoluted and too messy an explanation.

It spoke to Jace's pettiness if that's the case. That said, there's nothing wrong with flawed or selfish superheroes, though I would like to see an arc where they change (and we saw that to some extent with Jace and his relationship with Lucius, but then it got muddled at the end of Ridley's run). Some of my displeasure comes from how Ridley writes characters. I think he has some hang-ups when it comes to writing Black males and that came out in his Black Panther, and to a lesser extent, his work with Jace. He didn't seem to like T'Challa or Lucius, which is interesting with them being established characters. With Jace basically being his own creation-I think he gave him the (unexplained nickname) Jace just to make him more of his own creation, Ridley treated him much better. That said, I also think Ridley has a tendency to write very flawed, very gray characters, and you have to invest in time sticking with his stories to see when/where the payoff will be, if there is any. I was intrigued by the concept of a Black Batman. I liked making him part of the Fox family (which is something I thought should've been done on the Batwoman series as well), but the execution was so-so. There were some good ideas, some promising storylines and characters, but the pacing was slow, and it never quite gelled for me, and especially consistently.

[Will Evans]

Is Jace’s total non-relationship to Bruce a plus or a hindrance?

[Frontier]

Is Jace’s total non-relationship to Bruce a plus or a hindrance?

Depends how you look at it.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Is Jace’s total non-relationship to Bruce a plus or a hindrance?

It's a bit of both. The lack of connection gives an outsider's view of who Batman is but it feels like setup for a confrontation that hasn't paid off yet.

Second Son is pretty meandering so I was probably hoping for more than they were doing. Jace's time in Gotham was underwhelming so I'm hoping Jace's next followup learns from those missteps.

[Triniking1234]

Is Jace’s total non-relationship to Bruce a plus or a hindrance?

For me, it's a hindrance cuz he's just Batman cuz his dad just happens to work for him and Bruce's stuff is useful for his own anti-crime agenda. What's driving him to be Batman compared to people like Dick who went through a similar experience as Bruce?

[Captain Britain of Earth 20]

The Outsiders sound like a plan

[Will Evans]

For me, it's a hindrance cuz he's just Batman cuz his dad just happens to work for him and Bruce's stuff is useful for his own anti-crime agenda. What's driving him to be Batman compared to people like Dick who went through a similar experience as Bruce?

I’m surprised Bruce hasn’t tried to shut him down for taking his moniker without approval.

[marvelprince]

Is Jace’s total non-relationship to Bruce a plus or a hindrance?

Hindrance. If this was a situation where Bruce was off the board or whatever then it wouldn’t matter but every day that Jace is out using Batman’s name AND his gear while Bruce is doing his thing without so much as a “Seriously dude” to Lucius makes Jace seem like he’s not really a part of DC universe.

[marvelprince]

Why would he want to appropriate something that he despised at first? Just to stick it to his father? It's convoluted and too messy an explanation.

It spoke to Jace's pettiness if that's the case. That said, there's nothing wrong with flawed or selfish superheroes, though I would like to see an arc where they change (and we saw that to some extent with Jace and his relationship with Lucius, but then it got muddled at the end of Ridley's run). Some of my displeasure comes from how Ridley writes characters. I think he has some hang-ups when it comes to writing Black males and that came out in his Black Panther, and to a lesser extent, his work with Jace. He didn't seem to like T'Challa or Lucius, which is interesting with them being established characters. With Jace basically being his own creation-I think he gave him the (unexplained nickname) Jace just to make him more of his own creation, Ridley treated him much better. That said, I also think Ridley has a tendency to write very flawed, very gray characters, and you have to invest in time sticking with his stories to see when/where the payoff will be, if there is any. I was intrigued by the concept of a Black Batman. I liked making him part of the Fox family (which is something I thought should've been done on the Batwoman series as well), but the execution was so-so. There were some good ideas, some promising storylines and characters, but the pacing was slow, and it never quite gelled for me, and especially consistently.

It was less petty, more practical. He was out trying to help, was getting hurt and stumbled on the suit and tech to augment him. He was already out there risking his life to help people so he’s not solely motivated by getting back at his father. But is it a bonus for him to also be sticking it to his old man by using the mantle the way he thinks it should be used? Sure.

I do where his ideas for family drama and making everyone have some sort of flaw can be seen as him hating the characters but I think that’s just his style of trying to Ms,e everyone seem more human.

[Frontier]

It was less petty, more practical. He was out trying to help, was getting hurt and stumbled on the suit and tech to augment him. He was already out there risking his life to help people so he’s not solely motivated by getting back at his father. But is it a bonus for him to also be sticking it to his old man by using the mantle the way he thinks it should be used? Sure.

I do where his ideas for family drama and making everyone have some sort of flaw can be seen as him hating the characters but I think that’s just his style of trying to Ms,e everyone seem more human.

At least he didn't give Jace the T'Challa treatment.

[Emperorjones]

It was less petty, more practical. He was out trying to help, was getting hurt and stumbled on the suit and tech to augment him. He was already out there risking his life to help people so he’s not solely motivated by getting back at his father. But is it a bonus for him to also be sticking it to his old man by using the mantle the way he thinks it should be used? Sure.

I do where his ideas for family drama and making everyone have some sort of flaw can be seen as him hating the characters but I think that’s just his style of trying to Ms,e everyone seem more human.

When it comes to Ridley's style, I don't have an issue with flawed characters usually, it's just I think he doesn't get the balance right when it comes to some of his characters, and especially when they are Black males. I think he slips into a kind of "pull up your pants" sermonizing or too much deconstructing too often with some Black male characters (particularly ones he didn't create). I think there's a tendency for him to make characters so unlikable or underwhelming that it's hard to keep rooting for them. For him, he might consider its adding complexity and complications, and while that might be true (if that's his goal), it's just you can't forget to put a little sugar in.

[Emperorjones]

At least he didn't give Jace the T'Challa treatment.

He gave Lucius a bit of that tender touch.