Spider-Man vs Midnighter

[Agent Z]

Original version of Midnighter. Comic version of Spider-Man (Peter Parker). Who wins?

[Postmania]

Think the consensus in previous threads with the two is that Midnighter can match Spiderman in most places but lacks the consistent punching power to really take him out consistently.

[Huntsman Spider]

Think the consensus in previous threads with the two is that Midnighter can match Spiderman in most places but lacks the consistent punching power to really take him out consistently.

And it would also depend on whether Midnighter's neuro-implanted battle computer can match or outdo Spider-Man's spider-sense, which sometimes acts similarly, at the very least being used to help Spidey keep up with or beat trained martial artists despite lacking martial arts training of his own in addition to his superhuman physical advantages.

[Postmania]

Honestly, as cool as I always found the battle computer I never really found/recall it being able to be portrayed consistently in a way that could be gauged beyond just "he's good at fighting" when I read things with Midnighter in it, outside of one off situations like the time he talked a guy down by knowing exactly what to say.

[Sharpandpointies]

I've seen people on the board argue that it grants genuine combat precog, to the point where they consider it superior to Batgirl's body-reading. Not being a Midnighter-knowledgeable person, outside of the basics, I can't comment on that myself.

[big_adventure]

It's been a while but ISTR the battle computer being a lovely talking point but which doesn't really seem to grant enough to deal with Midnighter's stat deficit to Peter, especially when Peter ALSO has his own hax combat gift in the Spider Sense. Pete is quicker, hits harder and has webs, and has explicit combat precog. Midnighter's computer will read the outcomes, run the battle a million times and come to the conclusion that Midnighter is f'ed.

[Sharpandpointies]

I also recall Midnighter deflecting tank rounds and kicking people’s heads off such that they fire into the sky like a bullet, as well as hurting his partner with strikes to vital areas. Apollo wasn’t some Class 100 brick at the time, but he was pretty powerful.

Original Midnighter was quite enhanced, is what I’m saying.

Maybe people with better knowledge of the character can pull out some feats.

[Shellhead]

Is Midnighter faster than a speeding bullet? Spider-man is a legit bullet-timer, and his spider-sense makes it even less likely that he will get hit.

[Sharpandpointies]

Is Midnighter faster than a speeding bullet? Spider-man is a legit bullet-timer, and his spider-sense makes it even less likely that he will get hit.

Midnighter, as I recall, has kicked tank shells out of the air.

So he’s a legit bullet timer, who also has combat precog, and who, unlike Spider-Man, is top end martial artist who hits pressure points and such. Peter is no slouch for skill these days, but he’s not top-end.

I don’t like the guy. He’s one of my least favourite characters. But we had a thread of him against Cassandra Cain (original) and the general consensus was he beats Cass.

[big_adventure]

Midnighter, as I recall, has kicked tank shells out of the air.

So he’s a legit bullet timer, who also has combat precog, and who, unlike Spider-Man, is top end martial artist who hits pressure points and such. Peter is no slouch for skill these days, but he’s not top-end.

I don’t like the guy. He’s one of my least favourite characters. But we had a thread of him against Cassandra Cain (original) and the general consensus was he beats Cass.

Yeah, I kinda overlooked the "kick tank shell" thing. I still don't think he's at Pete's strength or speed level. As pointed out dozens of times, Pete can punch people's heads off at will, he just doesn't.

[Sharpandpointies]

Yeah, I kinda overlooked the "kick tank shell" thing. I still don't think he's at Pete's strength or speed level. As pointed out dozens of times, Pete can punch people's heads off at will, he just doesn't.

Peter may be stronger, but it's questionable when it comes to hitting power. Midnighter doesn't just kick off someone's head, he kicks it off in a way it fires up into the air as if shot by a cannon. Ridiculous? Sure. Head would explode first. But it happens. The guy is strong enough to hurt Apollo when they fight. He's plenty strong enough to hurt Peter.

So, breakdown.

1. Speed: Midnighter has a fairly short list of speedfeats, but they're there, including kicking a mach 4.5 tank shell out of the air. I would say we have speed parity here, for combat purposes. There's further stuff like him actually DOING stuff at superspeed (like putting on his costume at superspeed, faster than people can see, hitting a speedster after explaining that he can move at superspeed in bursts, etc) with actual explanations as to how that works, but I don't know enough about that to comment so I'll leave that. Suffice to say I'm pretty happy with him at least having speed parity with Peter if he's taking out speedsters on the regular with actual explanations as to how that works in the comics, rather than just 'stick arm out, speedster runs into it'.

2. Hitting power: Midnighter kicks heads off such that they fly like rockets into the air (I used to think it was 'rips off head', but nope, he kicks it, it goes flying). He hurts Apollo by hitting vital areas. He kicks tank shells out of the air such that they fly back somewhat in the direction from which they were coming, not 'deflects'. I would say he's easily strong enough to hurt Peter. Peter, obviously, is likewise strong enough to hurt Midnighter.

3. Durability: Peter probably has the edge here, but Midnighter - who IS enhanced, and fairly heavily, he's not some CBPH - has taken hits (apparently) from some pretty heavy hitters, and also wears armor. I can't see him folding from a single hit from Peter. Still, edge to Peter, though the pressure point stuff is something to consider.

4. Skill: Here, I'm going to give the nod to Midnighter. Peter is good - very good, these days - but he's not a top-tier fighter skill-wise, and Midnighter supposedly is. Pressure points, etc. So Midnighter outclasses Peter in this way.

5. Precog: Midnighter's precog seems more detailed and more extensive. It does fail against someone who can see five seconds into the future, but Peter's precog is explicitly not that. I would give a slight edge to Midnighter for this.

Again, I don't like the guy, but for Rumbles I like to look at things as fairly as possible. And all-told, it's a good fight (based on what I know). It's certainly not an easy win for Peter, and it might be a very close one (mileage may vary). I'm honestly not sure who takes a majority, here...

...if this were hand to hand only.

It's not, so the above + web-spam nets (haha) Peter the win.

[Captain Morgan]

I'm pretty leery of Peter having any kind of stat edge. Take durability for example. Midnighter doesn't seem to get hit a lot, but he's got stuff like the Mad Doctor kicking him the length of the football field, and Midnighter having the wherewithal to open a portal midair to stop himself from crashing into a mountain, and then landing on his feet. I can see Peter surviving a punch like that, but I think he'd be too dazed to pull off the same maneuver or web slingshot himself out of the air or something.

He also tends to main whatever he hits. At the low end, he snaps the necks of Superman pastiches who fly through buildings and demolish city blocks on impact. At the high end he broke Martian Manhunter's nose. I'd like to dismiss that high end, but I actually have no idea how strong he's supposed to be.

Edit: Pete might be able to win with web spam. Did original Midnighter Carey blades like the New 52 version did?

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm pretty leery of Peter having any kind of stat edge. Take durability for example. Midnighter doesn't seem to get hit a lot, but he's got stuff like the Mad Doctor kicking him the length of the football field, and Midnighter having the wherewithal to open a portal midair to stop himself from crashing into a mountain, and then landing on his feet. I can see Peter surviving a punch like that, but I think he'd be too dazed to pull off the same maneuver or web slingshot himself out of the air or something.

He also tends to main whatever he hits. At the low end, he snaps the necks of Superman pastiches who fly through buildings and demolish city blocks on impact. At the high end he broke Martian Manhunter's nose. I'd like to dismiss that high end, but I actually have no idea how strong he's supposed to be.

Good info, as always.

He's a bit of a monster, really. I mean...he kicks a tank shell that weighs close to 50 lbs and travelling at over mach 4 such that the shell is bounced back semi-toward the tank. Not 'deflected to the side'. It's pretty much reversed in trajectory - not exactly, but it's heading back toward the shooter, not past him or to the side.

That's ridiculous.

Edit: Pete might be able to win with web spam. Did original Midnighter Carey blades like the New 52 version did?

No idea as to the blades. I checked, didn't see anything about them. Maybe someone with better knowledge on the guy could weigh in.

[Postmania]

OG Midnighter carries throwing weapons and a staff iirc, but not more than that

[Sharpandpointies]

OG Midnighter carries throwing weapons and a staff iirc, but not more than that

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