Are the Hand boring villains?

[The Overlord]

Are the Hand boring villains? They were among the weakest villains in the Netflix Marvel series. I think they are good for action scenes, but almost no one in the Hand has an actual personality. It was kinda interesting when Kingpin took it over, but they need Hand-specific characters who are interesting, like give them an interesting leader or something, who is not a pre-established villain.

The Foot from TMNT, which is a parody of the Hand, is more interesting than the Hand. Shredder and Karai are more interesting than anyone in the Hand. The whole cycle of revenge between the Foot and the TMNT is more interesting than the generic bad-guy schemes we get from the Hand in the comics.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Here are some answers.

[Riv86672]

Are they boring? They are to me.

No Hand storyline or leader has ever really caught my attention. And yeah, the Foot is way better, which is so weird but it’s true.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Are they boring? They are to me.

No Hand storyline or leader has ever really caught my attention. And yeah, the Foot is way better, which is so weird but it’s true.

The Foot have been developed in IDW, thus it has members with actual personalities, goals, etc.

When was the last time The Hand had a villain devoted only to them, that was developed by two different writers? (Gorgon doesn't count as he was never developed).

They're literally just 'evil ninjas'.

[Sutekh]

We've seen way, way too many nameless, faceless genin ganked off for them to seem remotely plausible, in even a fantastic place as the Marvel universe. Every young adult male in Japan has to be a freaking member of that 'secret organization' of fanatical cultists willing to pledge their souls to a demon. Plus, adding to their weirdly fake nature, they vanish like video game 'bodies' when killed, which makes them seem even more like not-real-people.

I can see two ways in which the Hand could seem a bit more plausible, and credible as a threat.

One, more jonin, the higher rank non-novice ninja, who aren't nameless faceless mooks, but have personalities, names, faces, perhaps even a sense of style or infamous reputation, favored weapons and tactics, perhaps magical irezumi tattoos and other fun personalizing traits. More like Kwannon was said to be, pre-body swap, an assassin with some limited psychic potential she could use to enhance her abilities to stalk and kill her targets. The notion that the Hand has irezumi tattoo artists, able to place magical tattoos infused with demonic power, like the ability to blend into shadows when not moving, or a mamushi viper's venom injected by a touch, or to breath a blast of flame into a target's face at close range, could also make these jonin, the only ones who would earn such magical tattoos, more distinctive, and serve as a source for them to sometimes have minor 'super powers' without themselves all being mutants or sorcerers.

Two, the genin we've seen, all identical, all dissolving into red smoke, dying by the *hundreds* without it ever seeming to depopulate the Hand's resources or reputation in any meaningful way, or discourage other young men from joining this laughably ineffective suicide cult, could be discovered to not be actual people at all. Either they are conjured by Hand ritualists, or even more relevant for their popularity in the X-franchise, a single mutant kept *very* safe in a hidden fortress in Japan has a power similar to Madrox, able to make endless copies of himself, all in his fighting prime, even though he is now an old man, kept alive by the Hand using drugs and magic and advanced science, because they've never found another to replace him, and they treasure his ability to pump out endless squads of disposable genin footsoldiers, that evaporate into red smoke when 'killed.' Over the decades, he's gotten both paranoid and terrified of personal danger, and yet also so, so tired of this life. He feels what happens to his genin creations, and so has felt himself stabbed through the heart by Wolverine's claws (among many other deaths) dozens upon dozens of times, even if he himself has never been within a mile of the man. A part of him is terrified that Wolverine will someday fight his way to his safehold, and kill him one last time. A part of him is ready for that day...

[Huntsman Spider]

Are they boring? They are to me.

No Hand storyline or leader has ever really caught my attention. And yeah, the Foot is way better, which is so weird but it’s true.

Yeah, kind of like how COBRA in G.I. Joe was basically a "serial numbers filed off" version of HYDRA from a repurposed Nick Fury/S.H.I.E.L.D. comic idea but outstripped its inspiration in terms of recognizability. It helps that there is some element of recognizable humanity with Shredder and Karai of the Foot Clan in TMNT and its adaptations, which helps both writers and audiences buy into their fights with the Ninja Turtles and Splinter, unlike how utterly generic the Hand are in the larger Marvel Universe, drastically lowering the sense of stakes and thus emotional investment in their fights with Marvel heroes and even fellow Marvel villains.

[Huntsman Spider]

We've seen way, way too many nameless, faceless genin ganked off for them to seem remotely plausible, in even a fantastic place as the Marvel universe. Every young adult male in Japan has to be a freaking member of that 'secret organization' of fanatical cultists willing to pledge their souls to a demon. Plus, adding to their weirdly fake nature, they vanish like video game 'bodies' when killed, which makes them seem even more like not-real-people.

I can see two ways in which the Hand could seem a bit more plausible, and credible as a threat.

One, more jonin, the higher rank non-novice ninja, who aren't nameless faceless mooks, but have personalities, names, faces, perhaps even a sense of style or infamous reputation, favored weapons and tactics, perhaps magical irezumi tattoos and other fun personalizing traits. More like Kwannon was said to be, pre-body swap, an assassin with some limited psychic potential she could use to enhance her abilities to stalk and kill her targets. The notion that the Hand has irezumi tattoo artists, able to place magical tattoos infused with demonic power, like the ability to blend into shadows when not moving, or a mamushi viper's venom injected by a touch, or to breath a blast of flame into a target's face at close range, could also make these jonin, the only ones who would earn such magical tattoos, more distinctive, and serve as a source for them to sometimes have minor 'super powers' without themselves all being mutants or sorcerers.

Two, the genin we've seen, all identical, all dissolving into red smoke, dying by the *hundreds* without it ever seeming to depopulate the Hand's resources or reputation in any meaningful way, or discourage other young men from joining this laughably ineffective suicide cult, could be discovered to not be actual people at all. Either they are conjured by Hand ritualists, or even more relevant for their popularity in the X-franchise, a single mutant kept *very* safe in a hidden fortress in Japan has a power similar to Madrox, able to make endless copies of himself, all in his fighting prime, even though he is now an old man, kept alive by the Hand using drugs and magic and advanced science, because they've never found another to replace him, and they treasure his ability to pump out endless squads of disposable genin footsoldiers, that evaporate into red smoke when 'killed.' Over the decades, he's gotten both paranoid and terrified of personal danger, and yet also so, so tired of this life. He feels what happens to his genin creations, and so has felt himself stabbed through the heart by Wolverine's claws (among many other deaths) dozens upon dozens of times, even if he himself has never been within a mile of the man. A part of him is terrified that Wolverine will someday fight his way to his safehold, and kill him one last time. A part of him is ready for that day...

I like your idea. That would definitely be a great way to make the Hand more memorable and striking, and in the case of the genin, that would be incredibly tragic, to have spent their entire life being made to churn out cannon fodder for an evil organization that couldn't care less about them aside from their usefulness and kept from any semblance of an actual life.

[The Overlord]

We've seen way, way too many nameless, faceless genin ganked off for them to seem remotely plausible, in even a fantastic place as the Marvel universe. Every young adult male in Japan has to be a freaking member of that 'secret organization' of fanatical cultists willing to pledge their souls to a demon. Plus, adding to their weirdly fake nature, they vanish like video game 'bodies' when killed, which makes them seem even more like not-real-people.

I can see two ways in which the Hand could seem a bit more plausible, and credible as a threat.

One, more jonin, the higher rank non-novice ninja, who aren't nameless faceless mooks, but have personalities, names, faces, perhaps even a sense of style or infamous reputation, favored weapons and tactics, perhaps magical irezumi tattoos and other fun personalizing traits. More like Kwannon was said to be, pre-body swap, an assassin with some limited psychic potential she could use to enhance her abilities to stalk and kill her targets. The notion that the Hand has irezumi tattoo artists, able to place magical tattoos infused with demonic power, like the ability to blend into shadows when not moving, or a mamushi viper's venom injected by a touch, or to breath a blast of flame into a target's face at close range, could also make these jonin, the only ones who would earn such magical tattoos, more distinctive, and serve as a source for them to sometimes have minor 'super powers' without themselves all being mutants or sorcerers.

Two, the genin we've seen, all identical, all dissolving into red smoke, dying by the *hundreds* without it ever seeming to depopulate the Hand's resources or reputation in any meaningful way, or discourage other young men from joining this laughably ineffective suicide cult, could be discovered to not be actual people at all. Either they are conjured by Hand ritualists, or even more relevant for their popularity in the X-franchise, a single mutant kept *very* safe in a hidden fortress in Japan has a power similar to Madrox, able to make endless copies of himself, all in his fighting prime, even though he is now an old man, kept alive by the Hand using drugs and magic and advanced science, because they've never found another to replace him, and they treasure his ability to pump out endless squads of disposable genin footsoldiers, that evaporate into red smoke when 'killed.' Over the decades, he's gotten both paranoid and terrified of personal danger, and yet also so, so tired of this life. He feels what happens to his genin creations, and so has felt himself stabbed through the heart by Wolverine's claws (among many other deaths) dozens upon dozens of times, even if he himself has never been within a mile of the man. A part of him is terrified that Wolverine will someday fight his way to his safehold, and kill him one last time. A part of him is ready for that day...

I think you might have to combine these two ideas like the mutant making all these Hand clones wouldn't be the guy in charge, he would be the victim of the true master of the Hand. Like I said. You need a charismatic villain running the Hand to make them interesting.

[shooshoomanjoe]

IMO, Matsu'o Tsurayaba is one of Marvel's best villains.

[scribbleMind]

I think so. There's just not enough recurring character within The Hand. Like, The Hand should have generals. It should have a lot more people who show up and make you go "Oooooh!" Most of the time I see the hand, they're faceless ninjas that don't even have anyone leading the charge. Who's coordinating the attack, bro?! All the ninjas are just doing whatever, that why they keep getting mollywhopped! The Hand needs field leaders. Just my opinion.

[Frontier]

They've become incredibly overused.

[your_name_here]

Overused always means less threatening with each time they come back. They’ve sadly become another Hydra (without any of the big stories they occasionally get)

Having generals, leaders, hierarchy we can understand - they might become interesting again but even that will eventually go down once they’re inevitably defeated.

[K7P5V]

IMO, Matsu'o Tsurayaba is one of Marvel's best villains.

Couldn't agree more. In fact, he's responsible for the death of Mariko

[Phoenixx9]

Are they boring? They are to me.

No Hand storyline or leader has ever really caught my attention. And yeah, the Foot is way better, which is so weird but it’s true.

Yeah me too. But as with many, the Foot can stink.