To You, Who Is Catwoman?

[phonogram12]

Also she just loves stealing stuff :P.

That was obvious from how she pretty much declaratively told Slam in Selina's Big Score that despite whatever else she may be, she will still always be a thief. It's just not all she is. If that were the case, she'd be an incredibly boring and one-dimensional character.

[Frontier]

That was obvious from how she pretty much declaratively told Slam in Selina's Big Score that despite whatever else she may be, she will still always be a thief. It's just not all she is. If that were the case, she'd be an incredibly boring and one-dimensional character.

Well, obviously, it's just a big part of her. The girl who grew up with nothing became the girl who wants everything.

[bat39]

Its difficult to say, really. Not least because she's probably the one major Batman character who's been reinvented over and over again so completely over the last 85 years that all her different iterations may well be different individuals altogether. Is she a wealthy socialite or a street kid or a middle-class woman who strayed from her conventional life? Is she an unrepentant criminal, an anti-hero, or a vigilante? Is she fundamentally a good person who turns to crime out of necessity, a thrillseeker who pursues a life of crime out of excitement, or some on her own crusade that puts her just a little more on the wrong side of the law than Batman? Does Batman bring out the good side that was always present in her, inspire her to be better, or is it just pure sexual attraction between them that leads her to occasionally 'play' nice?

I think fundamentally I like the approach Matt Reeves took with her in The Batman, which itself was inspired by Year One and related stories - though one can argue it strays way too far from her 'classic' iteration of being a jewel thief. But I see Zoe Kravitz' Selina as being someone who Bruce can realistically end up with someday, someone with whom he resonates on an emotional and, to some extent, even a moral level.

BTAS gave us a Catwoman who was closer to the 'classic' portrayal from the comics, while still giving her a more compassionate and (anti)heroic side. That Catwoman isn't someone I see Bruce settling down with someday, but she's not a full-blown super-villain and is generally a cool character, albeit technically on the wrong side of the law.

The Nolanverse Catwoman, as played by Anne Hathaway, was cool, but honestly, I never really got a read on her as a character. And beyond her being hot, and helping him in his final battle, I never really understood why Bruce ended up with her.

Burton's take on her, as performed by Michelle Pfieffer, is an interesting one, and one that matches up to his take on the universe, and on Batman, but its not how I fundamentally see the character. Catwoman to me isn't 'insane' in any sense in the way that many other Batman villains are. Hell, I'd argue that in some cases, she's probably a bit more sorted in the head than good ol' Brucie

So to sum up, I think broadly I see two distinct versions of Catwoman - the career criminal/vigilante (well-intentioned or not) who has an attraction to Batman but can never truly be with him because they are on opposite sides, and the more heroic and compassionate figure who may start out as a criminal by compulsion but who soon morphs into a kind of vigilante/avenger and who's sort of a darker mirror of Batman himself which may make her 'the One' for him.

[phonogram12]

Well, obviously, it's just a big part of her. The girl who grew up with nothing became the girl who wants everything.

She did at one point, anyway. I feel as if her definition of "everything" has changed, though. Sure, she still has an affinity for sparkly baubles (and I doubt that will ever change), but it seems as if "everything" to Selina now has expanded to taking care of her and her people as well as the personal relationships she wants to hold on to more than any mere jewel.

[Frontier]

She did at one point, anyway. I feel as if her definition of "everything" has changed, though. Sure, she still has an affinity for sparkly baubles (and I doubt that will ever change), but it seems as if "everything" to Selina now has expanded to taking care of her and her people as well as the personal relationships she wants to hold on to more than any mere jewel.

Again, I said everything, be it things, people, relationships, or position.

Though she'll always make room for stealing something nice .

[phonogram12]

Again, I said everything, be it things, people, relationships, or position.

Though she'll always make room for stealing something nice .

Appreciate the clarification. And I agree. She'll always make room for thievery in her life along with what she considers more important (namely people).

[Frontier]

I should say vocally to me she's probably a mix between Adrienne Barbeau and Grey Griffin.

[phonogram12]

I always thought Eliza Dushku did a great job with Selina in the animated Batman Year One and that Catwoman short. It never would've occurred to me before, but it's a perfect fit in re to that specific version.

[Frontier]

I always thought Eliza Dushku did a great job with Selina in the animated Batman Year One and that Catwoman short. It never would've occurred to me before, but it's a perfect fit in re to that specific version.

Also Naya Rivera (RIP).

[Confuzzled]

Thief of Hearts.
Protector of Crime Alley.

Yeah, I loved what Brubaker did with her. If she is THAT much of a self-serving person, it makes no sense why she would stay back in shithole Gotham instead of living it up in Paris or wherever. You have to give her a motive to stay in Gotham and the best one is to ensure the downtrodden don't have to grow up in the terrible conditions she once did.

Also, I headcanon her as a Joe Chill sympathiser considering their similar backgrounds, which actually makes her dynamics with Bruce a million times more interesting.

[godisawesome]

Thief of Hearts.
Protector of Crime Alley.

Yeah, I loved what Brubaker did with her. If she is THAT much of a self-serving person, it makes no sense why she would stay back in shithole Gotham instead of living it up in Paris or wherever. You have to give her a motive to stay in Gotham and the best one is to ensure the downtrodden don't have to grow up in the terrible conditions she once did.

Also, I headcanon her as a Joe Chill sympathiser considering their similar backgrounds, which actually makes her dynamics with Bruce a million times more interesting.

Catwoman’s also had a heroic vigilante side since the 70’s Bronze Age stories - and in many ways, her Thief Protagonist era in the 90s was still very “vigilante-adjacent” even before Brubaker relaunched her as a straight-up vigilante. Then there’s how just about every modern adaptation has made it clear she tends to fall somewhere on the “co-belligerent to outright ally” side of the alignment spectrum with Bruce.

[Frontier]

I think you need to be careful just how heroic or good you make the character because I feel like a purely heroic Catwoman kind of defeats the point of the character, which is probably partially why she always goes back to being a thief instead of a Batfamily-esque vigilante even if she still ends up righting wrongs in the process.

Thief of Hearts.
Protector of Crime Alley.

Yeah, I loved what Brubaker did with her. If she is THAT much of a self-serving person, it makes no sense why she would stay back in shithole Gotham instead of living it up in Paris or wherever. You have to give her a motive to stay in Gotham and the best one is to ensure the downtrodden don't have to grow up in the terrible conditions she once did.

Also, I headcanon her as a Joe Chill sympathiser considering their similar backgrounds, which actually makes her dynamics with Bruce a million times more interesting.

Uh...not sure why Joe Chill needs sympathizers unless it's someone who thinks the Waynes had it coming.

[marhawkman]

Catwoman’s also had a heroic vigilante side since the 70’s Bronze Age stories - and in many ways, her Thief Protagonist era in the 90s was still very “vigilante-adjacent” even before Brubaker relaunched her as a straight-up vigilante. Then there’s how just about every modern adaptation has made it clear she tends to fall somewhere on the “co-belligerent to outright ally” side of the alignment spectrum with Bruce.

Yeah, many versions have a Robin Hood like aspect where they tend to steal from "bad" rich people. But how well this works out is debatable.

[bat39]

Catwoman’s also had a heroic vigilante side since the 70’s Bronze Age stories - and in many ways, her Thief Protagonist era in the 90s was still very “vigilante-adjacent” even before Brubaker relaunched her as a straight-up vigilante. Then there’s how just about every modern adaptation has made it clear she tends to fall somewhere on the “co-belligerent to outright ally” side of the alignment spectrum with Bruce.

Yeah, the Matt Reeves film went as far as to pretty much get rid of her being a career criminal/professional thief. She has a job at Falcone's club, and she only puts on her proto-Catwoman gear in a bid to steal back her friends' passports from the corrupt mayor, IIRC. Yes, she clearly has some experience with burglary, and with getting into fights, but nowhere does the film imply that she's a professional thief...until the very end where she asks Batman to come with her to "ripoff CEO/hedge fund types" in Bludhaven.

[DrNewGod]

I think you need to be careful just how heroic or good you make the character because I feel like a purely heroic Catwoman kind of defeats the point of the character, which is probably partially why she always goes back to being a thief instead of a Batfamily-esque vigilante even if she still ends up righting wrongs in the process...

I agree. I know The Man's not likely to publish a straight-up crook, and yet can't resist her popularity, but trying to take the outlaw out of Catwoman undermines most of what's best about her.