Same last name, must be related

[Holt]

I believe this is how they retconned the golden age Hawkgirl to be related to Speed Saunders, wasn’t it? Even though her surname was actually “Sanders” originally.

[Lonewolf36]

Green Lantern (John Stewart) and Tyroc (Troy Stewart)
Firebrand (Danette Reilly) and Firehawk (Lorraine Reilly)

[Thor-Ul]

Green Lantern (Joh Stewart) and Tyroc (Troy Stewart)

At least it was show than John Steward was involved in the creation of Marzal. So there could be something.

[Digifiend]

I suspect that 616's Captain Marvels had some connections to the DC Super-Family. Kal-El and Mar-(V)ell? Carol and Linda Danvers?

Even better - Carol's Kree name turned out to be Car-Ell.

[Jim Kelly]

I don't have a problem with the same name meaning a couple of characters are related. It's when the majority of them are that it becomes absurd. Like juvenile sidekicks, they should be very, very rare.

It seems to be a comic book trope.

As the Saunders/Sanders switch proves, eventually some writer is going to connect one name with another. They can't help themselves. I didn't expect to find that Rip Hunter and Dan Hunter were connected--but this rule must insist itself. It seems ridiculous after all this time that Dan should turn out to be Rip's cousin and his own ancestor, but it's on brand.

It actually bugs me more when the writers ignore the obvious connection--as with the Halls. Since Carter Hall (Katar Hol) was still very active (in HAWKMAN and JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA) when the Hawk and the Dove were created for SHOWCASE 75, I don't understand how the Steves Ditko and Skeates got that name past their editor (Carmine Infantino). Methinks there were some high jinks behind the scene.

E. Nelson Bridwell, in the SUPER FRIENDS comic books, established that Marvin White was related to Diana Prince White. Making Marv a Wonder Friend. The real Diana married Dan White, while Princess Diana (Wonder Woman) assumed the identity of Diana Prince (the same sort of thing as Lamont Cranston being a distinct character from the Shadow, but the Shadow sometimes assuming Lamont's identity). Now surely, if Marvin's last name is White, he must be related to Perry White, as well.

What about Wendy, Marv's Super Friend? She was Wendy Harris, but did she time travel and become Wendi Harris, the same who married Rex "Tick Tock" Tyler and gave birth to Rick Tyler? Hour Friend Wendy?

Could Ronnie Raymond (Firestorm) be related to Roy Raymond (T.V. Detective)? Roy's co-worker, Steve Lombard (quarterback/sportscaster), turned out to be the nephew of Kaye Daye (mystery novel writer, Mystery Analyst). In the 1940s, Steve Bard worked for the Daily Planet. Jason Bard (Vietnam vet, detective) had to be in the same family.

Robby Reed (became various heroes through dial), Gregory Reed (portrayed Superman on film) and Dan Reed (TV anchor whose life and indentity were stolen by a Superman clone)

I like to think that Robbie Reed, Gregory Reed and Dan Reed were all in the family. They were all characters that acted as supermen--in Dan's situation it was a case of identity theft. But Robbie is probably the only one who still exists in continuity.

At least so far as I know Tim Drake has never been related to Dinah Drake (and there's no reason he should be).

Bring it on. If Dinah Drake was the original Black Canary and her daughter is Dinah Lance, the second Black Canary, that could make her and Tim Drake cousins. Black Canary and Red Robin, what a colourful ornithological cousins combo!

The connection between Roy Harper and Jim Harper was established in TEEN TITANS 44 (November 1976), when Mal Duncan raided the Titans' lockers, getting an exoskeleton from Dick Grayson's (the exoskeleton appeared in BATMAN 192, "Dick Grayson's Secret Guardian") and a Guardian costume from Roy Harper's. Given the Guardian (Jim Harper) was established to exist on Earth-One in Jack Kirby's SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN, it all adds up.

[DrNewGod]

I don't have a problem with the same name meaning a couple of characters are related. It's when the majority of them are that it becomes absurd. Like juvenile sidekicks, they should be very, very rare.

Hear! Hear!

[Digifiend]

What about Wendy, Marv's Super Friend? She was Wendy Harris, but did she time travel and become Wendi Harris, the same who married Rex "Tick Tock" Tyler and gave birth to Rick Tyler? Hour Friend Wendy?

Bring it on. If Dinah Drake was the original Black Canary and her daughter is Dinah Lance, the second Black Canary, that could make her and Tim Drake cousins. Black Canary and Red Robin, what a colourful ornithological cousins combo!

If Tim had any surviving relatives he wouldn't have needed to be adopted by Batman following his father Jack Drake's death. He actually delayed it by inventing a fake uncle, but the actor he hired to play the role was killed when Bludhaven was nuked (that entire scenario is probably no longer canon since Bludhaven was no longer destroyed in current continuity).

Wendy was crippled during the 2003-11 Teen Titans run, and ended up appearing in the Batgirl book that starred Stephanie Brown, becoming an Oracle stand-in called Proxy. I assume Wendi was able bodied, in which case it's impossible for her to be the same person!

[Jim Kelly]

Time is a miraculous healer. As for orphaned Robins--calling Aunt Harriet Cooper! Where were you all those years when Dick Grayson was in the care of Bruce Wayne? Besides, distant cousins don't count. Sure Uncle Bill might get left with three orphans to raise--it's a Family Affair--but third cousin Bob ain't expected to raise no kids. Otherwise we'd all be on the hook to take care of some ankle-biters we never heard about.

Hear! Hear!

I think we are allowed to observe that these tropes exist in comic books, without necessarily advocating for them to exist or not to exist. I'm just having fun with it.

It does point to two different phenomena in comics:

One being that writers lack imagination when it comes to names, often using variations on the same names for different characters. Sure names like John Smith and Mary Jones are common enough in real life. It's not surprising that there are so many guys named Jim Kelly in the world. But is it just coincidence that Supergirl is Linda Danvers (now Kara Danvers), while Ms. Marvel (now Captain Marvel) is Carol Danvers?

The other phenomenon is that writers then try to make something out of these redundancies and duplications--to explain why they exist in the first place. Of course, as readers we're always on the look-out for motifs such as foreshadowing, so if we see that two characters have the same or similar names, then we expect that to pay off at some point, because we know this is the kind of thing that happens in stories. If there are two Sarah Connors then there has to be a third.

With actors, it's a different matter. Two actors can't have the same name, because of union rules. So while there were three guys named Michael Douglas active all at the same time in show biz, only two of them got to keep that name--one being Mike Douglas (singer and talk show host, born Michael Delaney Dowd, Jr.) and the other being Michael Douglas (actor and son of Kirk Douglas, born Issur Danielovitch)--the other other, born Michael John Douglas, had to change his stage name to Michael Keaton, even though he was no relation to either Buster Keaton or Diane Keaton.

There was one Phantom Lady who was actually related to Ted Knight/Starman.

I remember that that Ted Knight, at some point, was established as Sandra Knight's cousin. Her father, Henry Knight, was a senator. Phantom Lady being a creation of Quality Comics, it always was odd to me that not only did they have a Senator Knight, Quality also had a Senator Wright.

Strangely, Black Condor assumed the identity of Senator Wright--who he just happened to look like. Created by Will Eisner and Lou Fine, the Condor was born Richard Grey, Jr., in a Tarzan type scenario. But rather than being raised by great apes in Africa, he was raised by condors in Mongolia. Going stateside, B.C. took over the life of Senator Thomas Wright, when the real Wright was assassinated. Another one of those situations like with Diana Prince and Lamont Cranston, but much more gruesome in nature.

It seems odd that there are four Jim Corrigan characters in comics, with no relation to each other. The first is the Spectre--who exists on multiple Earths as multiple Jim Corrigans. Another Jim Corrigan is a cop in Metropolis who befriends Mr. Action, a.k.a. Jimmy Olsen, beginning in SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN 149 (May 1972)--he's later promoted to detective (he's also African-American, by the way). There's another detective Jim Corrigan that first appeared in GOTHAM CENTRAL 12. And then there's JIMMY CORRIGAN, THE SMARTEST KID IN THE WORLD from the Acme Novelty Library. How did this happen?

[Digifiend]

I think the Danvers thing IS just a coincidence. Carol was originally created as a love interest, not a superhero, so it might have been expected that she'd eventually become Carol Lawson (Mar-Vell's secret identity was Walter Lawson) like how the Invisible Woman changed from Sue Storm to Sue Richards after marriage (though in recent times she's been using her maiden name again). However, they didn't marry, she got powers of her own, and then he died. Had they intended her to be a superhero from the start, they'd likely have chosen a different last name.

[BohemiaDrinker]

People want Black Lightning's wife Lynn Stewart to be related to John Stewart.... it hasn't happened yet, has it?

I think, and I might be wrong, that the Young Justice cartoon took this route.

[Rac7d*]

People want Black Lightning's wife Lynn Stewart to be related to John Stewart.... it hasn't happened yet, has it?

Yes in young justice

[Jim Kelly]

They seemed to be strongly hinting at it in the Arrowverse--with the name of John Diggle's stepfather being revealed as Stewart--but I don't know if anything came of it.

I think the Danvers thing IS just a coincidence.

I know that Carol Danvers existed in the Stan Lee Presents CAPTAIN MARVEL comic book, long before she became super-powered. Although, given there was already a Linda Danvers, the Marvelous Creators had to know that they were using the same family name for one of their characters as that one at the Distinguished Competition. Danvers is more distinctive as a name than Jones.

And I remember when I bought Stan Lee Presents MS. MARVEL, issue 1 (January 1977), there was something disturbing in her similarity to Supergirl. After all, Gerry Conway wrote both Blonde Powerhouses--he also had just co-created Power Girl (Kara Zor-L) in ALL-STAR COMICS 58 (January-February 1976). Did the Danvers name give Gerry and his bosses the idea to make Carol into a superwoman?

And there were other developments in the Stan Lee Presents comic book that made it seem more than a coincidence--as if the Marvelous Competition was trying to take advantage of the Danvers connection and eat Kara Zor-El's lunch. They even shared some of the same artists: Jim Mooney who was THE Supergirl when she was in ACTION COMICS and then worked on MS. MARVEL for many issues; Carmine Infantino on MS. MARVEL and then on THE DARING NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERGIRL; and even Dave Cockrum who had some association with Supergirl via the Superman family and the Legion of Super-Heroes (also having been Murphy Anderson's assistant before Murph gave him his big break) and then on a couple of issues of MS. MARVEL.

Later on, giving Supergirl the Kara Danvers name (rather than Linda Danvers) might have been intended as a Daring Comeuppance for the Marvel Captain's brand.

As a side note--not a decided conspiracy and rather a marveling chain of circumstance--Otto Binder co-created Mary Marvel for Fawcett Comics (he even named his daughter Mary). At National Comics (D.C.), Binder then co-created Supergirl--who was to Superman as Mary Marvel was to Captain Marvel. Given Gerry Conway and Roy Thomas (editor-in-chief and co-creator of Stan Lee Presents Captain Marvel) were both steeped in Marvel Family lore (they would later write about the Shazam Family for Dolorous Comics Presents), maybe their intention was to give the Stan Lee Presents Captain Marvel his own Stan Lee Presents Mary Marvel--keeping the double consonants but switching Mary to Ms., because it was the 1970s not the 1940s.

[Phoenixx9]

They seemed to be strongly hinting at it in the Arrowverse--with the name of John Diggle's stepfather being revealed as Stewart--but I don't know if anything came of it.



I know that Carol Danvers existed in the Stan Lee Presents CAPTAIN MARVEL comic book, long before she became super-powered. Although, given there was already a Linda Danvers, the Marvelous Creators had to know that they were using the same family name for one of their characters as that one at the Distinguished Competition. Danvers is more distinctive as a name than Jones.

And I remember when I bought Stan Lee Presents MS. MARVEL, issue 1 (January 1977), there was something disturbing in her similarity to Supergirl. After all, Gerry Conway wrote both Blonde Powerhouses--he also had just co-created Power Girl (Kara Zor-L) in ALL-STAR COMICS 58 (January-February 1976). Did the Danvers name give Gerry and his bosses the idea to make Carol into a superwoman?

And there were other developments in the Stan Lee Presents comic book that made it seem more than a coincidence--as if the Marvelous Competition was trying to take advantage of the Danvers connection and eat Kara Zor-El's lunch. They even shared some of the same artists: Jim Mooney who was THE Supergirl when she was in ACTION COMICS and then worked on MS. MARVEL for many issues; Carmine Infantino on MS. MARVEL and then on THE DARING NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERGIRL; and even Dave Cockrum who had some association with Supergirl via the Superman family and the Legion of Super-Heroes (also having been Murphy Anderson's assistant before Murph gave him his big break) and then on a couple of issues of MS. MARVEL.

Later on, giving Supergirl the Kara Danvers name (rather than Linda Danvers) might have been intended as a Daring Comeuppance for the Marvel Captain's brand.

As a side not--not a decided conspiracy and rather a marveling chain of circumstance--Otto Binder co-created Mary Marvel for Fawcett Comics (he even named his daughter Mary). At National Comics (D.C.), Binder then co-created Supergirl--who was to Superman as Mary Marvel was to Captain Marvel. Given Gerry Conway and Roy Thomas (editor-in-chief and co-creator of Stan Lee Presents Captain Marvel) were both steeped in Marvel Family lore (they would later write about the Shazam Family for Dolorous Comics Presents), maybe their intention was to give the Stan Lee Presents Captain Marvel his own Stan Lee Presents Mary Marvel--keeping the double consonants but switching Mary to Ms., because it was the 1970s not the 1940s.

LOL! I was just going to post, could Carol Danvers be related to that other universe person of Linda Danvers? Or how about Mrs. Danvers in the movie Rebecca?

[Jokerz79]

Two-Face was originally Harvey Kent and that remained his name on Earth-2.

[The Darknight Detective]

It seems to be a comic book trope.

As the Saunders/Sanders switch proves, eventually some writer is going to connect one name with another. They can't help themselves. I didn't expect to find that Rip Hunter and Dan Hunter were connected--but this rule must insist itself. It seems ridiculous after all this time that Dan should turn out to be Rip's cousin and his own ancestor, but it's on brand.

It actually bugs me more when the writers ignore the obvious connection--as with the Halls. Since Carter Hall (Katar Hol) was still very active (in HAWKMAN and JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA) when the Hawk and the Dove were created for SHOWCASE 75, I don't understand how the Steves Ditko and Skeates got that name past their editor (Carmine Infantino). Methinks there were some high jinks behind the scene.

E. Nelson Bridwell, in the SUPER FRIENDS comic books, established that Marvin White was related to Diana Prince White. Making Marv a Wonder Friend. The real Diana married Dan White, while Princess Diana (Wonder Woman) assumed the identity of Diana Prince (the same sort of thing as Lamont Cranston being a distinct character from the Shadow, but the Shadow sometimes assuming Lamont's identity). Now surely, if Marvin's last name is White, he must be related to Perry White, as well.

What about Wendy, Marv's Super Friend? She was Wendy Harris, but did she time travel and become Wendi Harris, the same who married Rex "Tick Tock" Tyler and gave birth to Rick Tyler? Hour Friend Wendy?

Could Ronnie Raymond (Firestorm) be related to Roy Raymond (T.V. Detective)? Roy's co-worker, Steve Lombard (quarterback/sportscaster), turned out to be the nephew of Kaye Daye (mystery novel writer, Mystery Analyst). In the 1940s, Steve Bard worked for the Daily Planet. Jason Bard (Vietnam vet, detective) had to be in the same family.



I like to think that Robbie Reed, Gregory Reed and Dan Reed were all in the family. They were all characters that acted as supermen--in Dan's situation it was a case of identity theft. But Robbie is probably the only one who still exists in continuity.



Bring it on. If Dinah Drake was the original Black Canary and her daughter is Dinah Lance, the second Black Canary, that could make her and Tim Drake cousins. Black Canary and Red Robin, what a colourful ornithological cousins combo!

The connection between Roy Harper and Jim Harper was established in TEEN TITANS 44 (November 1976), when Mal Duncan raided the Titans' lockers, getting an exoskeleton from Dick Grayson's (the exoskeleton appeared in BATMAN 192, "Dick Grayson's Secret Guardian") and a Guardian costume from Roy Harper's. Given the Guardian (Jim Harper) was established to exist on Earth-One in Jack Kirby's SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN, it all adds up.

The thing is, Jim, if you have all these relations with super abilities, but their super powers were developed in different areas of the world, how do you explain it? Yeah, I can see the fun aspect of all of this, but I can see the stupidity of it even more.