All purpose news and politics thread part VII: News & Politics Total Landscaping

[JackDaw]

But how do you craft a law that keeps book banners from claiming a book was removed under these guidelines?

I live in UK.

A couple of years ago, realising I’d never read any John Buchan books, though he’d written some famous ones such as “The 39 Steps”, decided to try a couple…

So down to nearest large library, mildly surprised none on the shelves. Looked at catalogue to see a couple in the “Reserved Room”. So went and asked one of the librarians where that was…

“Oh, that’s locked, I’d have to get key, and find them myself. Do you really want to read them??”. Said “Yes” and off she went..

Reading first few pages later that night could see why they’d been under lock and key, impossible not to discern a casual attitude to racism.

[Mister Mets]

There is a clear and legal distinction between a Librarian or Library removing books based on standard practice versus an outside entity, government agency, person, or organization, demanding that a book be removed. It is much the same as if medical practice decides, based on its own criteria, to offer Abortion services or not instead of outside forces not in the medical profession demanding that the medical facility not do abortions.

Every professional entity, whether it is a library, a law office, a medical facility, an engineering firm, an accounting and tax prep firm, and so on all have their own standards of practice. Laws can be made to limit or restrict those outside the profession from dictating what they can and can not do.

The laws in consideration in NJ basically state that no one can threaten or harass a library employee and that only residents of the local community can make requests of the library, and only requests, that a book be removed from the collection. This is designed to protect the library and to ensure that the library serves its community, NOT some random outsider with a hate for all books and a desire to cause trouble.

There are a lot of further policy questions here.

Private libraries would have a lot of flexibility, as much as a bookstore.

There is a distinction between bans and a decision not to engage in patronage. It is different to prevent someone else from using their money to buy a book than it is for a library not to carry it.

Anything dependent on taxpayer funding is going to be limited by the attitudes of lawmakers. In some states and jurisdictions, there will be protections to give the librarians more discretion. In others, there's more oversight.

Threats and harassment would be a separate issue. And I'm sure there are places where it may be illegal to harass a librarian, but the authorities won't do anything about it (unless the harassment comes from someone they dislike.)

You have a good point on the distinction between libraries serving communities and libraries dealing with busybodies. But you're also going to encounter people who don't want libraries to have some books but don't hate all books and don't just want to cause trouble. It's not like everyone claiming that a particular book shouldn't be carried is just making up pretext.

[Catlady in training]

There are a lot of further policy questions here.

Private libraries would have a lot of flexibility, as much as a bookstore.

There is a distinction between bans and a decision not to engage in patronage. It is different to prevent someone else from using their money to buy a book than it is for a library not to carry it.

Anything dependent on taxpayer funding is going to be limited by the attitudes of lawmakers. In some states and jurisdictions, there will be protections to give the librarians more discretion. In others, there's more oversight.

Threats and harassment would be a separate issue. And I'm sure there are places where it may be illegal to harass a librarian, but the authorities won't do anything about it (unless the harassment comes from someone they dislike.)

You have a good point on the distinction between libraries serving communities and libraries dealing with busybodies. But you're also going to encounter people who don't want libraries to have some books but don't hate all books and don't just want to cause trouble. It's not like everyone claiming that a particular book shouldn't be carried is just making up pretext.

Of course people with money and access to information are able to buy the books instead of borrowing them. But for some children, the school library might be the only place they can access some books. Children with controlling or abusive parents for example. Do you think they have the money and the free unsupervised time outside of school? There are children whose parents track their every move, even their internet searches. The school library might be the only place where they can safely read some books and learn different viewpoints.
Of course, some people will immediately start talking about rights of parents to teach their children only what they want. It's a red flag for me if people talk about parental rights instead of children's rights.

[Deathstroke]

It's a red flag for me if people talk about parental rights instead of children's rights.

It's usually those banshees who later get found out to be beating or fucking their kids so I definitely look at anything they have to say with utter disdain.

[Jack Dracula]

There are a lot of further policy questions here.

Private libraries would have a lot of flexibility, as much as a bookstore.

There is a distinction between bans and a decision not to engage in patronage. It is different to prevent someone else from using their money to buy a book than it is for a library not to carry it.

Anything dependent on taxpayer funding is going to be limited by the attitudes of lawmakers. In some states and jurisdictions, there will be protections to give the librarians more discretion. In others, there's more oversight.

Threats and harassment would be a separate issue. And I'm sure there are places where it may be illegal to harass a librarian, but the authorities won't do anything about it (unless the harassment comes from someone they dislike.)

You have a good point on the distinction between libraries serving communities and libraries dealing with busybodies. But you're also going to encounter people who don't want libraries to have some books but don't hate all books and don't just want to cause trouble. It's not like everyone claiming that a particular book shouldn't be carried is just making up pretext.

Another aspect is whether these supposedly controversial books are actually being checked out. A couple of instances doesn’t constitute a crisis and if the problem is essentially nonexistent why does it necessitate legislation?

[Kirby101]

Another aspect is whether these supposedly controversial books are actually being checked out. A couple of instances doesn’t constitute a crisis and if the problem is essentially nonexistent why does it necessitate legislation?

Most crisis the GOP are up in arms about are essentially nonexistent.

[Gray Lensman]

Most crisis the GOP are up in arms about are essentially nonexistent.

If you look at the trends in books challenged to number of challenges, it becomes obvious that what is currently happening is a coordinated effort to get certain books banned everywhere.

[Tendrin]

It's a red flag for me if people talk about parental rights instead of children's rights.

cosigned massively.

[Gray Lensman]

Of course people with money and access to information are able to buy the books instead of borrowing them. But for some children, the school library might be the only place they can access some books. Children with controlling or abusive parents for example. Do you think they have the money and the free unsupervised time outside of school? There are children whose parents track their every move, even their internet searches. The school library might be the only place where they can safely read some books and learn different viewpoints.
Of course, some people will immediately start talking about rights of parents to teach their children only what they want. It's a red flag for me if people talk about parental rights instead of children's rights.

The language they use is also telling. My favorite is how they claim teachers are "stealing" their children by teaching things they don't like. Things get stolen, people get kidnapped. When you accuse someone of "stealing" your children, you tell me you consider your children to be things, not people. And that maybe, you shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

[Tendrin]

The language they use is also telling. My favorite is how they claim teachers are "stealing" their children by teaching things they don't like. Things get stolen, people get kidnapped. When you accuse someone of "stealing" your children, you tell me you consider your children to be things, not people. And that maybe, you shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

A lot of this moral panic's climate comes down to the idea of children not being people. America has become a very hostile place to children in general.

[Tami]

A lot of this moral panic's climate comes down to the idea of children not being people. America has become a very hostile place to children in general.

Unless you are a fetus, or even an embryo, then you are people.

[Kirby101]

Sometimes you just want to see all these GOP bgots purged from public life.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pe...le/ar-BB1lOiiR

[numberthirty]

Sometimes you just want to see all these GOP bgots purged from public life.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pe...le/ar-BB1lOiiR

You do get that "Public Life..." consists of folks that back that move the same way that it consists of folks who oppose it, right?

It's not like only six of these folks exist, and they are on one heck of a lucky streak...

[Kirby101]

You do get that "Public Life..." consists of folks that back that move the same way that it consists of folks who oppose it, right?

It's not like only six of these folks exist, and they are on one heck of a lucky streak...

I have no idea what you said.

[numberthirty]

I have no idea what you said.

Put simply...

You are talking about attempting to purge a group of people from "Public Life..." when they are a part of the "Public..." component of "Public..." life.

That feels about as unlikely as those folks eventually being able to completely freeze LGBT folks out of "Public Life..."